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Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

Turkey has submitted a request to the US-British co-production engines. However, due to the crisis did not respond positively to demand ATAK exports became uncertain.


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Turkey's long-standing barriers to vaccination engine for the export of works that appeared on Attack helicopters for export. Sales uncertainty continues due to the US-UK co-production engine of ATAK.

President Tayyip Erdogan's statements at a meeting with the chief executive of newspapers and televisions the previous day, the US-UK co-production engine used in the ATAK helicopter was requested from the British Rolls Royce'tan, but this request was not responded positively.

On July 13, 2018, the Presidency of Defense Industry reached an agreement to sell 30 T129 ATAK helicopters to Pakistan. Agreement that the total amount of exports made during the period was 1.5 billion dollars and was noted to be carried out so that the largest defense industry exports at a time in the history of Turkey. The Philippines also stated that the interest in the ATAK helicopter, in this context, Defense Industry Cooperation between the Philippines and Turkey Memorandum of Understanding was signed.

Seeking an alternative
At that time, it was reported that the first ATAK helicopter would be delivered to Pakistan in 2019, but the engine problem, one of the most important parts of the helicopter, appeared on the calendar. Turkish Aerospace Industry Inc. (TUSAŞ / TAI), ATAK helicopter uses CTS800 type engine produced by Light Helicopter Turbine Engine Company (LHTEC), a joint venture between American Honeywell and British Rolls Royce. Since this engine is used in the helicopter, the US Department of Defense (Pentagon) needs permission to export it to another country. The Pentagon has not yet issued this permit. This permission is not expected to be issued in the short term at a time of threat from the United States due to S-400 missiles received from Russia.

At the end of last year it had taken place in the press news that the direction of the LHTEC engine to look for alternatives for the ATAK France, Poland and Turkey. However, Pakistan requires a re-test flight in the Himalayas if an ATAK helicopter uses engines from a country other than the US.
The first test of the turbocharger engine designed by TUSAŞ Motor Sanayii (TEI) as domestic helicopter engine was performed at the end of last year. Domestic helicopter engine to come to the mass production stage and can be used in the ATAK helicopter can be realized in the long term.
Turkey is currently in the Land Forces Command 41, a total of 47, including 6 ATTACK helikoper the Gendarmerie General Command was delivered.


Best alternative is AH-1Z
USA will never block sale if we pay them
1 billion dena hay
 
Sir there are many engine options the delivery may be called as stalled or delayed but not terminated, the deliveries shall happen though some delays for testing of new engine are obvious, may be we are not well calculated but Turkish are. On other hand if Pak is able to get 13 +2 optional AH1Z along with upgrades for AH1Fs these measures may compensate for time being till deliveries of T129 are started.
Possibly a delay of upto a year. The zulus may take time and it would be wrong to sit there relying on them to come. Looking at the situation US might have engineered it to get PAA to ask for Zulus. T129s may yet come. It is the responsibility of the Turkish company to find an alternate engine and we will play it like we did the RD saga in the 90s.
The upgraded version came just too late for trials, we could just go with the Z10ME and wait for Attak 2.
It will need trials in Pak lands and the time may be now for hot and high trials and November for cold and high trials. I think the former are more important for Pakistan. The question is how far back is the ATAK Shifted back due to engine non supply and will IK be able to push US to give a nod!
A
 
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Hi,

Pakistan never thought about the engine embargo---even if someone brought it up---the Pak generals shut them down---.

This embargo was obvious as the shining sun up above in the sky on a hot Clear day---.

There is NO PLAN B here---. What we would be depending on is a brand new engine and you know how much time it takes to develop them--.

We really were better off with the chinese helicopter---it was a guarantee---we could have used turkish EW package etc---but a turkish chopper was technically out of question for us---.

Now IK is here in the US---would it be possible to get the engines---we will know shortly---.

Overall a very bad decision for a country that can go to war with its neighbor at any time---.
What I admire about you is you don’t mince words and some cannot take it @MastanKhan
 
The upgraded version came just too late for trials, we could just go with the Z10ME and wait for Attak 2.
@Rafi.
How did the assessment of the z10 go in Pakistan. Any ideas would be appreciated especially with regards to what was requested regarding upgrading prior to reconsideration.
A
 
I did see this. The crunch point is Iam sure PAA will invite the improved Z10 back for further trials. Whether this happens this year or next year it will happen. The T129 saga needs to reach its own culmination.
A
There is not much problem with Z-10 except its under powered engine which is rectify by newer and more powerful engine for Z-10ME. Note that T129 is able to achieve higher power to weight ratio by sacrificing armor to trim its weight to less 4tons empty weight.

So now you get a Z-10ME which has better armor, same power to weight ratio. In terms of high attitude mission, I don't think I need to say more as demonstrated by recent drill above Kunlun mountain with height of more than 7000m.
 
@Rafi.
How did the assessment of the z10 go in Pakistan. Any ideas would be appreciated especially with regards to what was requested regarding upgrading prior to reconsideration.
A

What I can say is we liked some things and others we asked for improvement, I can say with a high degree of certainty, that the Z-10ME is a result of that.

I know, that discussions between Pak and Turkey are discussing options and if possible for an alternative engine.

If not then there have been ideas that we use the current Attak contract and use it for Attak 2.

As soon as, that happens or even before we could see the ME in country.
 
Turkish sources confirm today 30 ATAK and 4 coverrts r coming to Pak worth of 3 billion dollars Gen zubair visited TAI and assured by Rolls-Royce that they stand by commitment no engine issue.
Seems to me same fake propaganda by certain quarters during JF17 engine issue
 
Turkish sources confirm today 30 ATAK and 4 coverrts r coming to Pak worth of 3 billion dollars Gen zubair visited TAI and assured by Rolls-Royce that they stand by commitment no engine issue.
Seems to me same fake propaganda by certain quarters during JF17 engine issue
Your source please. We know that TAI remains optimistic on sales of T129 to Pakistan even though relationship with US has gotten worse with the suspension of F35 program for Turkey.
 
Turkish sources confirm today 30 ATAK and 4 coverrts r coming to Pak worth of 3 billion dollars Gen zubair visited TAI and assured by Rolls-Royce that they stand by commitment no engine issue.
Seems to me same fake propaganda by certain quarters during JF17 engine issue
The fake propaganda is just that fake and eventually comes home to roost. Europe is realising that usa wants all the business and doenst want them to have any. Europe will start to protect its industry
 
Pakistan is in the same dilemma as Turkey was in; and Turkey has made decision by initiating the indigenous defence industry in land, air, sea, E/W.

Pakistan could keep buying on the shelves of Russia, China, USA etc. with ''conditions'' added in her interests for saving the days; or encounter the time and risk the half money in JVs with Turkey for freedom in her interests for the future to come.

At some point, you will have to make this decision either way; today, tomorrow or decades later. Unfortunate to lose many things till awaring of that point.

P.S.: I personally think Pakistan will keep buying on the shelf, no offence/disrespect.
 
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