Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Philip the Arab]

Denel Rooivalk uses French infrastructure in many sub-systems with its engine. What is the status of Pakistan with France? I don't have much information

That could be a problem I think with India and the Rafale, but Pakistan and France have fairly good ties and as I said before if France doesn't allow South Africa and Pakistan to use their engine than I'm sure the South Africans could reverse engineer it. You have to consider that Pakistan could also receive TOT for Mokopa, and Ingwe, as well as the Umkhonto for SAM and such while expanding defense ties with South Africa.

Full load out with 8 Mokopas, or 8 Ingwes, 70mm rocket, 20mm gun. Remember the Ingwe or the Mokopa can easily take out Indian tanks.



I'm going off-topic but I would like to add this- The Umkhonto which could also be produced in Pakistan if certain deals are made. Personally I think there are more opportunities with South Africa that are already developed than Turkey.

Type Surface-to-air missile
Place of origin South Africa
Service history
Used by South Africa, Finland
Production history
Manufacturer Denel Dynamics
Specifications
Mass 130 kg (290 lb)[1]
Length 3.32 m (10.9 ft)[1]
Diameter 180 mm (7.1 in)[1]
Warhead 23 kg (51 lb)[1]
Wingspan 500 mm (20 in)[1]
Operational
range
20 km (12 mi)(Umkhonto-IR)
30 km (19 mi) (Umkhonto-ER-IR)
60 km (37 mi)(Umkhonto-R)[2]
Flight altitude 8 km (5.0 mi)(Umkhonto-IR)
12 km (7.5 mi) (Umkhonto-ER-IR)
15 km (9.3 mi)(Umkhonto-R)
Speed Mach 2[1]
Guidance
system
All-aspect infra-red, command update fire and forget
Launch
platform
Naval Vertical launch system, Ground-based Launcher System

Nothing likely to come from there for a very very long time. Has been that way more than 15 years now.

In late 2016, Denel stated that it was conducting a series of talks with various nations on the Rooivalk Mk 2, including Egypt, Brazil, Nigeria, Poland and India. You were saying?

https://www.tacticalreport.com/view...e-industry-of-Rooivalk-combat-helicopter/5825

 

[MIRauf]

I am surprised that UAE or KSA hasn't gotten involved with Rooivalk MK2, they have boat load of $ and can easily fund the project just for kicks and giggles. If it comes out great they could easily make $ back and more, if not then its not a major loss for them.

PA with its limited resources will look for complete product as the number needed are relatively low ( 30+ ) units, the chances for it to get involve and take risk in project of the type are very low to none.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

That could be a problem I think with India and the Rafale, but Pakistan and France have fairly good ties and as I said before if France doesn't allow South Africa and Pakistan to use their engine than I'm sure the South Africans could reverse engineer it. You have to consider that Pakistan could also receive TOT for Mokopa, and Ingwe, as well as the Umkhonto for SAM and such while expanding defense ties with South Africa.

Full load out with 8 Mokopas, or 8 Ingwes, 70mm rocket, 20mm gun. Remember the Ingwe or the Mokopa can easily take out Indian tanks.



I'm going off-topic but I would like to add this- The Umkhonto which could also be produced in Pakistan if certain deals are made. Personally I think there are more opportunities with South Africa that are already developed than Turkey.

Type Surface-to-air missile
Place of origin South Africa
Service history
Used by South Africa, Finland
Production history
Manufacturer Denel Dynamics
Specifications
Mass 130 kg (290 lb)[1]
Length 3.32 m (10.9 ft)[1]
Diameter 180 mm (7.1 in)[1]
Warhead 23 kg (51 lb)[1]
Wingspan 500 mm (20 in)[1]
Operational
range
20 km (12 mi)(Umkhonto-IR)
30 km (19 mi) (Umkhonto-ER-IR)
60 km (37 mi)(Umkhonto-R)[2]
Flight altitude 8 km (5.0 mi)(Umkhonto-IR)
12 km (7.5 mi) (Umkhonto-ER-IR)
15 km (9.3 mi)(Umkhonto-R)
Speed Mach 2[1]
Guidance
system
All-aspect infra-red, command update fire and forget
Launch
platform
Naval Vertical launch system, Ground-based Launcher System


In late 2016, Denel stated that it was conducting a series of talks with various nations on the Rooivalk Mk 2, including Egypt, Brazil, Nigeria, Poland and India. You were saying?

https://www.tacticalreport.com/view...e-industry-of-Rooivalk-combat-helicopter/5825

I was saying France is unlikely to sell anything including through third party to Pakistan and Pakistan is unable to buy anything from France on the off chance that it does for foreseeable future.
Also any Rooivalk is unlikely to make it to Pakistan. That ship has long sailed.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Type Surface-to-air missile
Place of origin South Africa
Service history
Used by South Africa, Finland
Production history
Manufacturer Denel Dynamics
Specifications
Mass 130 kg (290 lb)[1]
Length 3.32 m (10.9 ft)[1]
Diameter 180 mm (7.1 in)[1]
Warhead 23 kg (51 lb)[1]
Wingspan 500 mm (20 in)[1]
Operational
range
20 km (12 mi)(Umkhonto-IR)
30 km (19 mi) (Umkhonto-ER-IR)
60 km (37 mi)(Umkhonto-R)[2]
Flight altitude 8 km (5.0 mi)(Umkhonto-IR)
12 km (7.5 mi) (Umkhonto-ER-IR)
15 km (9.3 mi)(Umkhonto-R)
Speed Mach 2[1]
Guidance
system
All-aspect infra-red, command update fire and forget
Launch
platform
Naval Vertical launch system, Ground-based Launcher System

The roketsan HISAR family can be offered in response to UMKHONTO. I don't think there's a lot of difference between us. Also I don't think that Pakistan will choose a system other than China's solution for Air Defense System.

 

[Philip the Arab]

The roketsan HISAR family can be offered in response to UMKHONTO. I don't think there's a lot of difference between us.

Umkhonto is more tested and has been around longer, TOT would probably not be offered to Pakistan while South Africa is usually more lenient because Denel is in a tough situation now.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Umkhonto is more tested and has been around longer, TOT would probably not be offered to Pakistan while South Africa is usually more lenient because Denel is in a tough situation now.

You answer the moment I edit my answer

 

[Philip the Arab]

You answer the moment I edit my answer

I'm willing to bet that South African systems are better than China's. China and Russia tend to brag about their systems while South Africa generally doesn't and also have Israeli help for missiles and knowing Israel they have some of the best SAM systems in the world.

 

[cabatli_53]

@cabatli_53 what's the other side of the story? Any alternate to this?

Bro, You know Those turboshaft engines are being manufactured by a few countries and All other states are dependent on those states to make their helicopters fly so Even if you don’t buy from US, You should buy from Europe which is the same sh@t in terms of issue sanctions and restrictions for third parties so Domestic development of such core technologies are vital but It takes time. National turboshaft engine needs min 2-3 years more to get matured. TEI foreseens around 12-14 years to develop 27000lb turbofan engine for TF-X. We have to bow our heads to a few elites until we reach our self-sufficiency. That is the painful story for all of us because Eastern block equivalents are not advanced enough to cope with Western quality standarts yet. Russian helicopters are advanced indeed but they have a strange tradition to make a defense deal. We will see the further development which is going to shape the export deals of Turkey. If crisis between Turkey and US get deeper, then We have to face a sanction and this will certainly block some ezport deals containing US engines. Turkish MoND is in US now. They are trying to solve the problems with US counterparts and we will see the results.

 

[The Eagle]

Indeed, we know how sanctions hurts especially when you aren't domestically self-sufficient/reliant.

Russian helicopters are advanced indeed but they have a strange tradition to make a defense deal.

Interesting mention but will ask later about this based upon what I understand from your comment. Hopefully the matter will be resolved otherwise, there will be another supplier and am sure the alternate will be available. Any update in this regard/Turkey US talks will be appreciated.

 

[Imran Khan]

when i will see first paksitan t129 before my death or after ?

 

[PakShaheen79]

when i will see first paksitan t129 before my death or after ?

Imran Bhai pata karwao k deal hui v c ... pata laggy k gallan c giyan!

 

[cabatli_53]

Indeed, we know how sanctions hurts especially when you aren't domestically self-sufficient/reliant.



Interesting mention but will ask later about this based upon what I understand from your comment. Hopefully the matter will be resolved otherwise, there will be another supplier and am sure the alternate will be available. Any update in this regard/Turkey US talks will be appreciated.

Russian after-sale service is poor. Turkey and some other states using Russian products complain about it. Besides, Similar to Western states, Russian defense contracts should serve for politic benefits in foreign policy so If they see a risk for future, They will not sacrifice their benefits for the sake of other states. Iran is the victim of this policy. Anyway, Russia is an alternative indeed but US keep threatening anybody who is willing to make a big defense contract with Russia. Turkey like states who is connected into West with all industrial infrastructure, is beimg effected from likely sanctions ao Turkey should watch the steps carefully. We need realistic policies instead of emotional one to deal with West. Otherwise, they have many instruments to harm our mid term benefits. I believe Turkey offered a new solution to station S-400 batteries into the places where Turkish F35 would never fly in that zone. If Turkish officials convince US for an alternative solution, I believe Everything will be OK in a short time.

Turkiah defense industry decision mechanism called SSIK have been gathered without waiting return of MoND from US. I believe SSIK delegation needed to take some quick decisions regarding ongoing programs. In follıwing days, We will reach some details to share.

 

[monitor]

when i will see first paksitan t129 before my death or after ?

As you said before don't drink alcohol anymore its injurious to health , so you will live longer and hopefully see T-129 in Pakistani color even Atak-2 too.

 

[Pakistani Aircraft]

As you said before don't drink alcohol anymore its injurious to health , so you will live longer and hopefully see T-129 in Pakistani color even Atak-2 too.

He asked "when". What's the date parameter associated with "hopefully"?

 

[nomi007]

Safran Arrano
is best alternative option