Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

[Moon]

I always wondered why were these picked up at that cost

Better drones for counter insurgency..

What purpose do they serve? Scouting? SAR? Also are they too expensive for the capabilities they provide?

 

[ziaulislam]

What purpose do they serve? Scouting? SAR? Also are they too expensive for the capabilities they provide?

Scouting..but against what???

Yeah..huge waste of money..someone got rich

 

[Moon]

Scouting..but against what???

Yeah..huge waste of money..someone got rich

Damn... Yeah I was wondering what purpose hey served, seem very redundant with the advent of drones... But if you could put ATGMs on these bad boys, you'd have pretty good tank busters.


How much were they a piece?

 

[Scorpiooo]

PAA waiting for T-129.
Tiger Attack Helicopter is out of reach.
same as US made helicopter are out of reach.
What is left Now China & Russia.

Our R&D department is sleeping while indian making HAL Attack Helicopter.

HAL Light Combat Helicopter
HAL Rudra
HAL Dhruv
HAL Light Utility Helicopter
HAL Chetak

If we announce Tatelt Hunt program Pakistan can get Thousends of Ideas to Make Helicopter our Students are sharp minded if some good people handel them they will show what they can make.
NED University and other have many brillent mind.

Too late for R&D now you need ToT to fill out gap then can start R and D for future stuff

 

[Reichmarshal]

Scouting..but against what???

Yeah..huge waste of money..someone got rich

someone got kicked out of the army, short of a court-martial.

the attack version is a piece of crap. only good for photo opps

 

[The Terminator]

IMHO modernization and upgradation of Attack helis and Air Defence systems should be the top most priority of Pakistan Army rather than rifle replacement and newer tanks acquisition programs. Those infantrymen specially the tanks would be just sitting ducks in case of enemy's overwhelming quantity of relatively modern Air power. Even the most expensive cutting edge tank can't reliably defend itself from the aerial threats. Our obsolete cobra fleet could be proven teeth less against any near peer modern armed force

 

[Moon]

enemy's overwhelming quantity of relatively modern Air power

Won't that make survival of helicopters difficult as well? Though I do agree in the importance of Army having small indigenously built helicopters. Now if they're manned that's fine. If they're unmanned like the NORINCO CR-500, which can be used in conjunction with armor then that's a game changer IMO. Multiple ATGM carrying UAVs would be a nightmare for any foe.

Our obsolete cobra fleet could be proven teeth less against any near peer modern armed force

Cobra's should be either given to FC or be reverse engineered and modernized for mass induction.

 

[Keysersoze]

IMHO modernization and upgradation of Attack helis and Air Defence systems should be the top most priority of Pakistan Army rather than rifle replacement and newer tanks acquisition programs. Those infantrymen specially the tanks would be just sitting ducks in case of enemy's overwhelming quantity of relatively modern Air power. Even the most expensive cutting edge tank can't reliably defend itself from the aerial threats. Our obsolete cobra fleet could be proven teeth less against any near peer modern armed force

Enemy air power is the purview of the airforce.

The Army has Hq16s and Hq7s and manpads as well as AAA guns. These provide mobile air defence for formations. They were looking at Pantsir or equivalent but I believe that got stopped by the Russians. So they have already looked at the problem and implemented a solution. These systems in theory would be used if the PAF cannot provide aerial protection.

Helicopters in this case would have no effect on airdefence. They are to break armoured attacks or hardpoints with stand-off missiles. The cobras are old but still work. The PAA is clearly addressing the problem but politics have slowed the purchase for both options. So your points have already been addressed.
Meanwhile rifle replacement is needed as Helicopters and Sam systems can't hold ground. The PBI with their rifles do that.

 

[The Terminator]

True.

But I wish we could've picked up a license to build a low-cost 1-2-ton helicopter. There was some momentum behind it back in the 1970s (there was a lot of interest in building stuff at Kamra at the time -- e.g., Mushshak, Saab 105, a fighter to replace the F-6, etc). With the emergence of ATGM and laser-guided rockets, these small beaters would've been really useful for close air support, special operations, recon/scouting, etc.

Now their role can be taken up by UCAVs!

 

[The Terminator]

Attack helicopters are best complemented by UAVs and loitering munition in a hotly SAM contested battleground of modern times, India is as off currently playing its cards right. Be it from local manufacturing of loitering munition in excess range of 180km or to attack helicopters alongside armed UAVs. It is seeing a rise in quality products, produced at home with little cost. now that's future-proofing.

This intermingling of such amazing platforms is sure to cause headaches for Pak armour.

For now, we have covered the first 2 vitals of the 3 drop magic potion. All we need is the last "loitering" drop, no pun intended.

Exactly, Pakistan has to follow the same route too. Better UAVs are available at our disposal now. But PA Air Defence is not upto the mark given today's ever increasing engagement ranges and large quantity of India's aerial attack fleet, Pakistan's armor doesn't stand a chance unless skies above them are clear from any threat. Time and again it has been proven around the globe that who owns the sky obliterates the opposing force.

 

[The Terminator]

Enemy air power is the purview of the airforce.

The Army has Hq16s and Hq7s and manpads as well as AAA guns. These provide mobile air defence for formations. They were looking at Pantsir or equivalent but I believe that got stopped by the Russians. So they have already looked at the problem and implemented a solution. These systems in theory would be used if the PAF cannot provide aerial protection.

Helicopters in this case would have no effect on airdefence. They are to break armoured attacks or hardpoints with stand-off missiles. The cobras are old but still work. The PAA is clearly addressing the problem but politics have slowed the purchase for both options. So your points have already been addressed.
Meanwhile rifle replacement is needed as Helicopters and Sam systems can't hold ground. The PBI with their rifles do that.

Do you really think that airforce would be there to cover entire Army's massive formations against enemy's close air support and dealing with many times larger adversary's airforce simultaneously??? I think PAF would already be stretched too thin to support Army effectively.

And hypothetically after the initial exchange of heavy long range artillery fires, tactical and cruise missiles and cross border air raids, don't know how much part of the airforce would manage to be operational at that point. We don't enjoy that kind of a luxury of quantitative advantage and land mass depth as our enemy does. In that context Army should be always ready to cater for their own requirements by themselves and don't rely too much on the airforce. It would be harder for us to replace and patch up losses as the war progresses

 

[Keysersoze]

Do you really think that airforce would be there to cover entire Army's massive formations against enemy's close air support and dealing with many times larger adversary's airforce simultaneously??? I think PAF would already be stretched too thin to support Army effectively.

And hypothetically after the initial exchange of heavy long range artillery fires, tactical and cruise missiles and cross border air raids, don't know how much part of the airforce would manage to be operational at that point. We don't enjoy that kind of a luxury of quantitative advantage and land mass depth as our enemy does. In that context Army should be always ready to cater for their own requirements by themselves and don't rely too much on the airforce. It would be harder for us to replace and patch up losses as the war progresses

Yes I do. The airforce's job is not just to protect airspace over Pakistan. It may not be able to do so in all aspects during a conflict and hence the systems such as HQ16 and HQ7s. If all redundant systems are gone then there will be real problems that SAM systems won't fix.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I always wondered why were these picked up at that cost

Better drones for counter insurgency..

From a conversation with someone...the MD-530F should have won the requirement based on performance and price-point.

Now their role can be taken up by UCAVs!

How about developing an indigenous 1-2-ton VTOL UCAV?

 

[Great Janjua]

Exactly, Pakistan has to follow the same route too. Better UAVs are available at our disposal now. But PA Air Defence is not upto the mark given today's ever-increasing engagement ranges and large quantity of India's aerial attack fleet, Pakistan's armour doesn't stand a chance unless skies above them are clear from any threat. Time and again it has been proven around the globe that who owns the sky obliterates the opposing force.

The thing wrong with our doctrine is we are cheering upon jf-17 with bvr to help clear hostile skies for ground armour. it's an odd thought to even consider nowadays no wonder our AAD capability is extremely lacking.

 

[Abid123]

IMHO modernization and upgradation of Attack helis and Air Defence systems should be the top most priority of Pakistan Army rather than rifle replacement and newer tanks acquisition programs. Those infantrymen specially the tanks would be just sitting ducks in case of enemy's overwhelming quantity of relatively modern Air power. Even the most expensive cutting edge tank can't reliably defend itself from the aerial threats. Our obsolete cobra fleet could be proven teeth less against any near peer modern armed force

"Those infantrymen specially the tanks would be just sitting ducks in case of enemy's overwhelming quantity of relatively modern Air power".

A solution for this could be to buy a sizeable number of HQ-17AE's from China. "The HQ-17 is designed to keep up with mechanized troops like tank battalions to provide air cover on the move, as well as protect military sites". "The system can effectively intercept not only fixed wing aircraft, armed helicopters, drones, tactical air-to-ground missiles, anti-radiation air-to-ground missiles and subsonic cruise missiles, but also more challenging targets such as stealth aircraft, supersonic cruise missiles and rockets".

HQ-17 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

China’s advanced field air defense missile HQ-17AE cleared for export - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn