Pakistan Army Aviation Corps - Updated

[The Terminator]

One of the biggest issues China is facing now, which hinders its path to be the No. 1 superpower is the decades old strict communist style control and thought process. China is currently battling this issue by active decentralization, involving public and it's young brains in tech competitions etc. Because you can't innovate in under stress or constant fear. Scientists, great minds in philosophy, culture, sciences can't be produced in a tightly controlled environment or strict SOPs. Lack of SOPs creates innovation. That's why the world still borrows cutting edge tech from the west and China is lacking in that field as of now.

China became an economic superpower through Capatalist communism hybrid. It would only be a tech giant and science innovator when General public and private sector would have far more stake in those fields and Chinese people are moving in the right direction overall.

The best possible solution would have been a Public-Private partnership. The benefit of privatization would be better management, economic viability and innovation in R&D sector. Downside is a lot of people among key persons could loose their jobs as is usually done after privatization.

Instead of supporting the local industries, Our Govt for decades has brutally supreessed local market and industries of small arms under the pressure of the US. It's easy for a local citizen to buy illegal small arms as licensed weapons are banned/strictly regulated which means more money for the corrupt Govt officials. A conglomerate of local arms manufacturers plus the Govt backed industry would have at least resolved the issues of small arms manufacturing and exports.

The carbon fiber cloth, a material used in furniture, construction and automotive products is regulated. And regulated means more bureaucratic hoops to jump through and more room for corruption. How a local industry specially a defense industry could thrive in those conditions. But still some of them are surviving and offering their products too.

 

[Khaqan Humayun]

Instead of building a factory to rebuild obsolete cobras which is equally controversial as US wouldn't allow it in the first place, why not induct a squadron of JF-17 thunders and use the already well established PAF's supply chain and rebuild facilities instead. Cobras have to go anyways. Replace them with any gunship as they would have far better modern avionics and tech in them than ancient cobras

Dear We are talking about Attack Helicopter, JF17 is fighter jet not Attack Helicopter.

 

[Keysersoze]

Dear We are talking about Attack Helicopter, JF17 is fighter jet not Attack Helicopter.

He knows. He is suggesting the PA use jets for CAS as the Cobras are running out of service life.
He hasn't accounted for factors like loiter time etc.

 

[The Terminator]

Dear We are talking about Attack Helicopter, JF17 is fighter jet not Attack Helicopter.

Yeah I know that. Cobras are getting obsolete unless somehow we get AH-1Zs. JF-17 is quite potent and our indigenous platform and they could prove great in Close air support maybe better than Cobras (as they could provide air superiority and ground attack capabilities simultaneously in a highly contested area) except from penalties in loitering times.

Even if we replace cobras with modern gunships even then addition of some thunders to PAK Army could prove to be a great force multipliar and would reduce dependance upon air force for air cover and stand off precision guided strikes.

Modern fighters are flexible and could be used against all kinds of stuff and can punch with greater firepower, can clear the skies and diminish ground forces capabilities and can't be retaliated except by AD and other fighters. Greater flexibility, mobility and survivability than hovering clumsy choppers except in the field of loitering time.

Modern drones can do better job than old cobras. I have heard that terrorist used to just hangout under shade or trees to escape detection from our dinasour attack choppers having much poor sensor capabilities in day/night Ops

 

[Tornado23]

Yeah I know that. Cobras are getting obsolete unless somehow we get AH-1Zs. JF-17 is quite potent and our indigenous platform and they could prove great in Close air support maybe better than Cobras (as they could provide air superiority and ground attack capabilities simultaneously in a highly contested area) except from penalties in loitering times. Even if we replace cobras with modern gunships even then addition of some thunders to PAK Army could prove to be a great force multipliar and would reduce dependance upon air force for air cover and stand off precision guided strikes.

Ummm.... Air force?

 

[The Terminator]

He knows. He is suggesting the PA use jets for CAS as the Cobras are running out of service life.
He hasn't accounted for factors like loiter time etc.

Exactly. I am not in favor of replacing attack helis with fighter jets but in case of cobras, it's better to get 4.5 gen fighter jets rather than start purchasing retired cobras from other countries and establish their rebuild factories to maintain those dinasours.

Replace cobras with new attack helis + JF-17s under Army's command, strategically placed in groups of 4 to 5 fighters all along the eastern border, close to the areas where the future battlegrounds are expected. With airstrip disguised as roads/highways and hangars as industrial buildings. Because major air bases could be far off from the borders and would be a prime target of missile and SOW strikes right from the beginning of war. It would act as a QRF and redundant CAS/CAP assets for Army independent from PAF in case they somehow couldn't show up in time.

Ummm.... Air force?

Nope. Army Avaition

 

[Tornado23]

Nope. Army Avaition

Well...what you want ultimately comes under Air force. I mean you cant have jets replace helis for CAS. The air force provides that.
Jets when in regards to CAS is like a hammer. It hits hard and leaves a dent in whatever it strikes
Helis in regarda to cas is like a scalpel. Its sharp, its precise, its clean, and it leaves a small incision that has one heck of a mental impact on the enemy

 

[iLION12345_1]

Well...what you want ultimately comes under Air force. I mean you cant have jets replace helis for CAS. The air force provides that.
Jets when in regards to CAS is like a hammer. It hits hard and leaves a dent in whatever it strikes
Helis in regarda to cas is like a scalpel. Its sharp, its precise, its clean, and it leaves a small incision that has one heck of a mental impact on the enemy

Correct. Fighter jets Cannot work for CAS like helicopters. They cannot hover, provide precision fire, carry ATGMs, move with armored formations etc. They have to re-position after every short attack.

Unless there is a dedicated fighter for CAS (for example the SU-25 and A-10, which FYI both have proven to be rather poor platforms all things considered), it is kind of a waste of money, rather Improve interoperability between PA and PAF and spend the money on more helicopters.

 

[The Terminator]

Correct. Fighter jets Cannot work for CAS like helicopters. They cannot hover, provide precision fire, carry ATGMs, move with armored formations etc. They have to re-position after every short attack.

Unless there is a dedicated fighter for CAS (for example the SU-25 and A-10, which FYI both have proven to be rather poor platforms all things considered), it is kind of a waste of money, rather Improve interoperability between PA and PAF and spend the money on more helicopters.

I never denied the importance of attack choppers.

A-10's limited capabilities and ineffective cannon against armored targets resulted in its retirement. Whatever A-10s could achieve, F-16s could do it far better and far safer.

Interoperability isn't the issue. The main issue is chain of command and priorities of the respective forces. PAF would always prioritize fighting and damaging IAF and its assets (air bases SAMs etc). PAF being outnumbered and its major airbases probably under attack could certainly result in difference of priorities and conflict of interest in some cases between PAF and PA when hard pressed by the enemies.

When PAA have various kinds of helicopters and fixed wing aircrafts then why not a squadron of fighter jets too! Let's upgrade and resurrect our Army Aviation as we did with Air Defence too.

Jets when in regards to CAS is like a hammer. It hits hard and leaves a dent in whatever it strikes

Exactly we need those hard hitting hammers against overwhelming numbers of enemy forces so that their numbers could be hammered down to our advantage.

 

[Tornado23]

Correct. Fighter jets Cannot work for CAS like helicopters. They cannot hover, provide precision fire, carry ATGMs, move with armored formations etc. They have to re-position after every short attack.

Unless there is a dedicated fighter for CAS (for example the SU-25 and A-10, which FYI both have

https://twitter.com/x/status/1450746911087026177

to be rather poor platforms all things considered), it is kind of a waste of money, rather Improve interoperability between

I never denied the importance of attack choppers.

A-10's limited capabilities and ineffective cannon against armored targets resulted in its retirement. Whatever A-10s could achieve, F-16s could do it far better and far safer.

Interoperability isn't the issue. The main issue is chain of command and priorities of the respective forces. PAF would always prioritize fighting and damaging IAF and its assets (air bases SAMs etc). PAF being outnumbered and its major airbases probably under attack could certainly result in difference of priorities and conflict of interest in some cases between PAF and PA when hard pressed by the enemies.

When PAA have various kinds of helicopters and fixed wing aircrafts then why not a squadron of fighter jets too! Let's upgrade and resurrect our Army Aviation as we did with Air Defence too.


Exactly we need those hard hitting hammers against overwhelming numbers of enemy forces so that their numbers could be hammered down to our advantage.

Yes but that falls under the air force. Not army.

 

[The Terminator]

Yes but that falls under the air force. Not army.

OK then let's agree to disagree

 

[ghazi52]

Awais Lali 's photo is in the top entries for Heli Ops Magzine weekly contest.
Please vote for it by hitting the like button on the picture ...

"An IAR-330 Puma helicopter of the Pakistan Army Aviation calmly sitting on the tarmac as the last colors of the sunset drop beyond the horizon." - submitted by @alpha_lima_ on Instagram using #heliopsmag

 

[ghazi52]

Any chance for PA....
Z-10ME Attack Helicopter

 

[python-000]

Any chance for PA....
Z-10ME Attack Helicopter
View attachment 787147

Probbly yes because we all know 1st VT4 then HQ-9 comes out so why not & who knows some day our Army also give this surprise to the nation or may be bigger then that...

 

[Great Janjua]

Z-10 great aircraft but it's Hot and High performance, was not up to mark let's see what's its ME variant forms.