Pakistan and India, both may get SCO full membership

[Azizam]

Yes, Russian economy has slipped.

Another key indicator to measure international competitiveness of industrial capacity especially is High Technology Exports (Current US$), i.e. export of products with high R&D intensity, such as in aerospace, computers, pharmaceuticals, scientific instruments, and electrical machinery.

In hi-tech exports, China is 34x of India, 65x of Russia or 67x of Brazil.
China alone represents 94% of BRICS.

Check latest (2013) data from:
High-technology exports (current US$) | Data | Table
Graph of top 30 countries, data in US$ Billion
View attachment 236781

Singapore is tiny in size but giant in everything else.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Singapore is tiny in size but giant in everything else.

Yes, SG is really advanced & competitive for a small country like that. That's why China despite massive in size, is still eyeing everything to close the industrial gaps with advanced states like SG, SK & JP (i.e East Asia model), the process will take time but the trend is good.

On topic, there is no common thread between all BRICS members, making it a dysfunctioning multi-lateral platform. Most bilateral trade/investments will continue to expand except maybe a few (between hostile states), but the group has no material meaning of existence. Check these ground realities if you miss previous post (post #18):

SCO resembles BRICS in some way, economic & industrial capacity even more concentrated on one member - China, by this count then SCO will be just another dysfunctioning multi-lateral platform. However since members are all on Eurasian landmass, the chance is that if there is an alignment of geopolitical vision then SCO might serve a purpose in Eurasian security. Is there such a chance? The ground reality suggests a big NO.

Hence like @mike2000 is back described, BRICS, SCO will be just nice photo-taking venues like APEC, G20. Bilateral relationships still far more instrumental than multi-lateral platforms.

 

[Pksecurity]

With its deep-sea port of Gwadar, Pakistan would provide shortest supply routes to China and Russia and also Central Asian States. It naval forces would be strong enough to protect its Sea Lanes of Communication (SLOCs). With the world’s 6thlargest standing army, one of the finest nuclear arsenals, swiftly changing internal security environment for the better and its geo-strategic location, Pakistan should be all set to play its role to create at least some ripples, if not chaos, in the existing world order which is manipulative, oppressive and unjust. Read more at: Pakistan’s SCO membership will create ripples, if not chaos, in the existing order | The Passive Voices

 

[j20blackdragon]

I actually see India joining SCO as a good sign.

Russia is extremely anti-US.

Why would they want (or allow) a pro-US India to join?

The answer is simple: India isn't pro-US.

The Indians on PDF are not representative of the Indian government or Indian population. Most of the guys on PDF are probably posting from the West. I would ignore their trolling.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Yes, Russian economy has slipped.

Another key indicator to measure international competitiveness of industrial capacity especially is High Technology Exports (Current US$), i.e. export of products with high R&D intensity, such as in aerospace, computers, pharmaceuticals, scientific instruments, and electrical machinery.

In hi-tech exports, China is 34x of India, 65x of Russia or 67x of Brazil.
China alone represents 94% of BRICS.

Check latest (2013) data from:
High-technology exports (current US$) | Data | Table
Graph of top 30 countries, data in US$ Billion
View attachment 236781

Yes, but most of those are foreign/western owned companies with investments in China.
Nevertheless still a good achievement though.

 

[mike2000 is back]

The most victories of Russia were absolutely tragic victories that Russia have got with sacrifices far larger than most its rivals even a country as little as Finland.
If it was a good chess player, it wouldnt always try to use its forces to solve every problem, that should be the last bluff.
The force will always be the last means to solve problems for a good player.-----The art of war.

Well, not always the case. In history, doesn't really matter how much loss a country incurs as far as it meets its end needs/the benefits outweighs the costs. So your term 'Tragic' Victory is kind of hilarious. VICTORY IS VICTORY. Even more so when it means expanding your territory/land and making it part of your country, its all worth it in the long term.
You say Russia is not a good chess player because it used its forces everywhere to solve its problems/issues with other rival states?? LOOL Well as i said earier, the end always justifies the means. Russia uses both passive and active power in its foreign policy(we in Europe know it very well). Russia will use power when it knows it has the upper hand without any hesitation(which i don't think is a bad idea to be honest). China cant do the same simply because it cant/is unable to as of now, since it has much more to loose than Russia, plus it lacks strategic allies/partners unlike Moscow. So there are things Moscow can still afford to do which you people cant.

The Russia's embarrassed environment is absolutely caused by their ancestors' greedy in plunder of land, and now they even can take enough control of their vast land.

LOL Well i don't really understand your point. Greed to plunder land as you said, i dont think is a bad thing. Afterall, how do you think Russia became by far the worlds biggest country by landmass?? Its not by following Sun Tszu so called tactic. lol Its by being proactive and using force when necessary, while at the same time incorporating the territories it conquered under its country. I think that was the mistake our fore fathers made, they should have followed Moscows method, by making many of our overseas territory part of our land/country. If they did so, then Hong Kong will still be part of our country. lol
After all it wouldn't have made the Chinese hate us any more than the do today, since Moscow has done farrrr worse to them by seizing large swaths of land from China, yet China still views Russia more positively than they do towards us in the west/U.S. lool Funny i know.

You needn't remind us of that. In all history our country's biggest threat on land(the enemy from sea is you Brits and US) always was the enemy from north such as the most powerful nations in history Hun, Turk, Mogol, Sienpi that were all destroyed/assimilated by Han though. And now it is the Russia. Nowadays for dragon we need a crippled bear not a healthy one or a dead one.

For the bold part i thought it was first Japan?lool

So you think you can assimilate Russia?? Good luck with that though. You still need Russia to stand any chance against the West/U.S than vice versa. You are not yet as strong(far from it) as the former U.S.S.R(especially in terms of military, allies, strategically etc) to be able to stand on your own against the west/U.S. Reason Russia knows it can afford not to give a shit about your sensitivities/interests by arming your rivals/enemies like Vietnam to the teeth, while China cant/is scared/worried of doing the same towards Russia's enemies like Ukraine/Georgia etc. lol Your leaders themselves know this.

For example Why do you think China did speak out in support of Russia annexation of Crimea, meanwhile when has Russia ever backed China in its claims in SCS/Vietnam/Philippines/Taiwan disputes etc??? The answer is NEVER, on the contrary.

Chinese Premier Backs Russia on Crimea
China's State Media Hits Out at West Over Crimea
Chinese Foreign Ministry supports Russia in Ukrainian conflict - The latest world news - mw.ua
Putin Grateful To China, India For "Support" Over Crimea | Zero Hedge
Putin vows to boost Russian military supplies to Vietnam amid South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
Why Doesn’t Russia Support China in the South China Sea? | The Diplomat
Why the bear is back in Vietnam – Russia assisting Vietnam in South China Sea dispute | China Daily Mail

As i said, the bear is still a very good chess player. China needs more time to learn the game.
We can hep you though.

 

[Nan Yang]

Well, not always the case. In history, doesn't really matter how much loss a country incurs as far as it meets its end needs/the benefits outweighs the costs. So your term 'Tragic' Victory is kind of hilarious. VICTORY IS VICTORY. Even more so when it means expanding your territory/land and making it part of your country, its all worth it in the long term.
You say Russia is not a good chess player because it used its forces everywhere to solve its problems/issues with other rival states?? LOOL Well as i said earier, the end always justifies the means. Russia uses both passive and active power in its foreign policy(we in Europe know it very well). Russia will use power when it knows it has the upper hand without any hesitation(which i don't think is a bad idea to be honest). China cant do the same simply because it cant/is unable to as of now, since it has much more to loose than Russia, plus it lacks strategic allies/partners unlike Moscow. So there are things Moscow can still afford to do which you people cant.


LOL Well i don't really understand your point. Greed to plunder land as you said, i dont think is a bad thing. Afterall, how do you think Russia became by far the worlds biggest country by landmass?? Its not by following Sun Tszu so called tactic. lol Its by being proactive and using force when necessary, while at the same time incorporating the territories it conquered under its country. I think that was the mistake our fore fathers made, they should have followed Moscows method, by making many of our overseas territory part of our land/country. If they did so, then Hong Kong will still be part of our country. lol
After all it wouldn't have made the Chinese hate us any more than the do today, since Moscow has done farrrr worse to them by seizing large swaths of land from China, yet China still views Russia more positively than they do towards us in the west/U.S. lool Funny i know.



For the bold part i thought it was first Japan?lool

So you think you can assimilate Russia?? Good luck with that though. You still need Russia to stand any chance against the West/U.S than vice versa. You are not yet as strong(far from it) as the former U.S.S.R(especially in terms of military, allies, strategically etc) to be able to stand on your own against the west/U.S. Reason Russia knows it can afford not to give a shit about your sensitivities/interests by arming your rivals/enemies like Vietnam to the teeth, while China cant/is scared/worried of doing the same towards Russia's enemies like Ukraine/Georgia etc. lol Your leaders themselves know this.

For example Why do you think China did speak out in support of Russia annexation of Crimea, meanwhile when has Russia ever backed China in its claims in SCS/Vietnam/Philippines/Taiwan disputes etc??? The answer is NEVER, on the contrary.

Chinese Premier Backs Russia on Crimea
China's State Media Hits Out at West Over Crimea
Chinese Foreign Ministry supports Russia in Ukrainian conflict - The latest world news - mw.ua
Putin Grateful To China, India For "Support" Over Crimea | Zero Hedge
Putin vows to boost Russian military supplies to Vietnam amid South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
Why Doesn’t Russia Support China in the South China Sea? | The Diplomat
Why the bear is back in Vietnam – Russia assisting Vietnam in South China Sea dispute | China Daily Mail

As i said, the bear is still a very good chess player. China needs more time to learn the game.
We can hep you though.

China literally invented diplomacy. China has been playing diplomacy since the spring and authum period.

 

[indushek]

Well, not always the case. In history, doesn't really matter how much loss a country incurs as far as it meets its end needs/the benefits outweighs the costs. So your term 'Tragic' Victory is kind of hilarious. VICTORY IS VICTORY. Even more so when it means expanding your territory/land and making it part of your country, its all worth it in the long term.
You say Russia is not a good chess player because it used its forces everywhere to solve its problems/issues with other rival states?? LOOL Well as i said earier, the end always justifies the means. Russia uses both passive and active power in its foreign policy(we in Europe know it very well). Russia will use power when it knows it has the upper hand without any hesitation(which i don't think is a bad idea to be honest). China cant do the same simply because it cant/is unable to as of now, since it has much more to loose than Russia, plus it lacks strategic allies/partners unlike Moscow. So there are things Moscow can still afford to do which you people cant.


LOL Well i don't really understand your point. Greed to plunder land as you said, i dont think is a bad thing. Afterall, how do you think Russia became by far the worlds biggest country by landmass?? Its not by following Sun Tszu so called tactic. lol Its by being proactive and using force when necessary, while at the same time incorporating the territories it conquered under its country. I think that was the mistake our fore fathers made, they should have followed Moscows method, by making many of our overseas territory part of our land/country. If they did so, then Hong Kong will still be part of our country. lol
After all it wouldn't have made the Chinese hate us any more than the do today, since Moscow has done farrrr worse to them by seizing large swaths of land from China, yet China still views Russia more positively than they do towards us in the west/U.S. lool Funny i know.



For the bold part i thought it was first Japan?lool

So you think you can assimilate Russia?? Good luck with that though. You still need Russia to stand any chance against the West/U.S than vice versa. You are not yet as strong(far from it) as the former U.S.S.R(especially in terms of military, allies, strategically etc) to be able to stand on your own against the west/U.S. Reason Russia knows it can afford not to give a shit about your sensitivities/interests by arming your rivals/enemies like Vietnam to the teeth, while China cant/is scared/worried of doing the same towards Russia's enemies like Ukraine/Georgia etc. lol Your leaders themselves know this.

For example Why do you think China did speak out in support of Russia annexation of Crimea, meanwhile when has Russia ever backed China in its claims in SCS/Vietnam/Philippines/Taiwan disputes etc??? The answer is NEVER, on the contrary.

Chinese Premier Backs Russia on Crimea
China's State Media Hits Out at West Over Crimea
Chinese Foreign Ministry supports Russia in Ukrainian conflict - The latest world news - mw.ua
Putin Grateful To China, India For "Support" Over Crimea | Zero Hedge
Putin vows to boost Russian military supplies to Vietnam amid South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
Why Doesn’t Russia Support China in the South China Sea? | The Diplomat
Why the bear is back in Vietnam – Russia assisting Vietnam in South China Sea dispute | China Daily Mail

As i said, the bear is still a very good chess player. China needs more time to learn the game.
We can hep you though.

Problem with Asian/South Asian powers has been that they were never expeditionary. Mostly they would go as far as Middle east or say Japan side. Now the West has always reached till the end of the world literally.

From the time of Romans and Greeks there were expeditions this far.

Even today u can see that Britain/America/France etc running diplomacy in all the continents. Where as no Asian country does so. Recent middle eastern crisis are an example for this.

Rich resources and plenty of food i believe are the culprits actually !!!! that there was no need to venture too far.
I believe the Westerners living in cold and harsh climates had to venture out (this is my personal opinion though) for most things.

But i am sure being exposed to the world wars, cold war and the unipolar world my Asian brethren have learnt this great game rules. Its just that u can't change status quo overnight. And as years go by there will be convergence in Asia. I don't mean to say in the sense of we have to attack/put down West way, but work towards a multi polar world. The yanks are having too much fun till now along with other Western powers.

 

[Nan Yang]

Problem with Asian/South Asian powers has been that they were never expeditionary. Mostly they would go as far as Middle east or say Japan side. Now the West has always reached till the end of the world literally.

From the time of Romans and Greeks there were expeditions this far.

Even today u can see that Britain/America/France etc running diplomacy in all the continents. Where as no Asian country does so. Recent middle eastern crisis are an example for this.

Rich resources and plenty of food i believe are the culprits actually !!!! that there was no need to venture too far.
I believe the Westerners living in cold and harsh climates had to venture out (this is my personal opinion though) for most things.

But i am sure being exposed to the world wars, cold war and the unipolar world my Asian brethren have learnt this great game rules. Its just that u can't change status quo overnight. And as years go by there will be convergence in Asia. I don't mean to say in the sense of we have to attack/put down West way, but work towards a multi polar world. The yanks are having too much fun till now along with other Western powers.

I do not see any European diplomacy in East Asia but I see China in the Iran talks.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Yes, but most of those are foreign/western owned companies with investments in China.

LOL what a brainless comment! Any data to substantiate your idiotic claim? BTW is it like most of UK is owned by Li Ka Shing, or Arab oil money, Russian oligarchs, China SOE, or South Asian tycoons?

Nevertheless still a good achievement though.

Nah it's just normal, it would be a big surprise if others like UK tops the chart.

 

[sicsheep]

Well, not always the case. In history, doesn't really matter how much loss a country incurs as far as it meets its end needs/the benefits outweighs the costs. So your term 'Tragic' Victory is kind of hilarious. VICTORY IS VICTORY. Even more so when it means expanding your territory/land and making it part of your country, its all worth it in the long term.
You say Russia is not a good chess player because it used its forces everywhere to solve its problems/issues with other rival states?? LOOL Well as i said earier, the end always justifies the means. Russia uses both passive and active power in its foreign policy(we in Europe know it very well). Russia will use power when it knows it has the upper hand without any hesitation(which i don't think is a bad idea to be honest). China cant do the same simply because it cant/is unable to as of now, since it has much more to loose than Russia, plus it lacks strategic allies/partners unlike Moscow. So there are things Moscow can still afford to do which you people cant.


LOL Well i don't really understand your point. Greed to plunder land as you said, i dont think is a bad thing. Afterall, how do you think Russia became by far the worlds biggest country by landmass?? Its not by following Sun Tszu so called tactic. lol Its by being proactive and using force when necessary, while at the same time incorporating the territories it conquered under its country. I think that was the mistake our fore fathers made, they should have followed Moscows method, by making many of our overseas territory part of our land/country. If they did so, then Hong Kong will still be part of our country. lol
After all it wouldn't have made the Chinese hate us any more than the do today, since Moscow has done farrrr worse to them by seizing large swaths of land from China, yet China still views Russia more positively than they do towards us in the west/U.S. lool Funny i know.



For the bold part i thought it was first Japan?lool

So you think you can assimilate Russia?? Good luck with that though. You still need Russia to stand any chance against the West/U.S than vice versa. You are not yet as strong(far from it) as the former U.S.S.R(especially in terms of military, allies, strategically etc) to be able to stand on your own against the west/U.S. Reason Russia knows it can afford not to give a shit about your sensitivities/interests by arming your rivals/enemies like Vietnam to the teeth, while China cant/is scared/worried of doing the same towards Russia's enemies like Ukraine/Georgia etc. lol Your leaders themselves know this.

For example Why do you think China did speak out in support of Russia annexation of Crimea, meanwhile when has Russia ever backed China in its claims in SCS/Vietnam/Philippines/Taiwan disputes etc??? The answer is NEVER, on the contrary.

Chinese Premier Backs Russia on Crimea
China's State Media Hits Out at West Over Crimea
Chinese Foreign Ministry supports Russia in Ukrainian conflict - The latest world news - mw.ua
Putin Grateful To China, India For "Support" Over Crimea | Zero Hedge
Putin vows to boost Russian military supplies to Vietnam amid South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
Why Doesn’t Russia Support China in the South China Sea? | The Diplomat
Why the bear is back in Vietnam – Russia assisting Vietnam in South China Sea dispute | China Daily Mail

As i said, the bear is still a very good chess player. China needs more time to learn the game.
We can hep you though.

lol are you delusional?

you could have kept Hong Kong in 1997 why wouldn't you? why didn't you force us to sign another Treaty of Nanking?

When the Sino-Russian boarder treaty was signed in 2004, Russia gave up lands that were under Russian control.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Tell that to the Russians, they don't believe that. They know they still know China still relies a lot on their tech for its military. Do you know how many chinese fighter jets run on Russia engines even today?lol Do you know how many Chinese fighter jets are derived/reverse engineered from Russian ones? for this reason they cant even export some of these fighters as Moscow will protest its IP rights and the aircraft's as well since engines are Russians etc. China in my opinion still needs decades to get rid of Russian tech dependence altogether, and create a purely ingenious tech military industry. I think China will succeed though as its advancing quite fast, but it needs more/a lot of time for its own systems to mature. Until then Moscow still has the upper hand, and it will milked it for all its worth, while it still has the time.

Dont forget Russia is an old bear Geo political master player just like we in Britain/E.U and the U.S, we have all been playing these games for over a century now since we were world powers battling for world supremacy/control, so Russia has as much experience as us, China to be honest is still fairly new to the game. But it will learn with time.

Russia also needs Chinese electronics, seeing as their electronics industry has slipped quite a bit since Soviet days.

Also, can you tell me how many engine orders were placed in the last 3 years? Gotta give me some specifics man, since you're making big assertions.

 

[XiaoYaoZi]

Well, not always the case. In history, doesn't really matter how much loss a country as far as it meets its end needs/the benefits outweighs the costs. So your term 'Tragic' Victory is kind of hilarious. VICTORY IS VICTORY. Even more so when it means expanding your territory/land and making it part of your country, its all worth it in the long term.
You say Russia is not a good chess player because it used its forces everywhere to solve its problems/issues with other rival states?? LOOL Well as i said earier, the end always justifies the means. Russia uses both passive and active power in its foreign policy(we in Europe know it very well). Russia will use power when it knows it has the upper hand without any hesitation(which i don't think is a bad idea to be honest). China cant do the same simply because it cant/is unable to as of now, since it has much more to loose than Russia, plus it lacks strategic allies/partners unlike Moscow. So there are things Moscow can still afford to do which you people cant.
LOL Well i don't really understand your point. Greed to plunder land as you said, i dont think is a bad thing. Afterall, how do you think Russia became by far the worlds biggest country by landmass?? Its not by following Sun Tszu so called tactic. lol Its by being proactive and using force when necessary, while at the same time incorporating the territories it conquered under its country. I think that was the mistake our fore fathers made, they should have followed Moscows method, by making many of our overseas territory part of our land/country. If they did so, then Hong Kong will still be part of our country. lol

Do you mean you as a foreigner can understand Sun Tszu better than Chinese?
All people are the passing travellers in the history. How to define victory, and what is the victory. What the victory in yesterday means in today. What the Russian predecessors' so-called victories just mean the heavy burdens and big debt for their juniors. Every modern country has its strength limit, which means expanding its territory in its strong period, and losing its vast land in its declining. Just like your country that become the penis of Europe from the socalled great Britain empire. The Russians in history could always be called excellent tacticians, but never be good strategists.

After all it wouldn't have made the Chinese hate us any more than the do today, since Moscow has done farrrr worse to them by seizing large swaths of land from China, yet China still views Russia more positively than they do towards us in the west/U.S. lool Funny i know.
For the bold part i thought it was first Japan?lool
So you think you can assimilate Russia??

Trust me, bro, the wars with Hun, Turk, Mongol, Sienpi all took hundreds of years, you just need be patient. Your country is too young compared to China, so you never have the enough scale of view of history to evaluate that.

Good luck with that though. You still need Russia to stand any chance against the West/U.S than vice versa. You are not yet as strong(far from it) as the former U.S.S.R(especially in terms of military, allies, strategically etc) to be able to stand on your own against the west/U.S. Reason Russia knows it can afford not to give a shit about your sensitivities/interests by arming your rivals/enemies like Vietnam to the teeth, while China cant/is scared/worried of doing the same towards Russia's enemies like Ukraine/Georgia etc. lol Your leaders themselves know this.

For example Why do you think China did speak out in support of Russia annexation of Crimea, meanwhile when has Russia ever backed China in its claims in SCS/Vietnam/Philippines/Taiwan disputes etc??? The answer is NEVER, on the contrary.

Chinese Premier Backs Russia on Crimea
China's State Media Hits Out at West Over Crimea
Chinese Foreign Ministry supports Russia in Ukrainian conflict - The latest world news - mw.ua
Putin Grateful To China, India For "Support" Over Crimea | Zero Hedge
Putin vows to boost Russian military supplies to Vietnam amid South China Sea dispute | South China Morning Post
Why Doesn’t Russia Support China in the South China Sea? | The Diplomat
Why the bear is back in Vietnam – Russia assisting Vietnam in South China Sea dispute | China Daily Mail

As i said, the bear is still a very good chess player. China needs more time to learn the game.
We can hep you though.

What a good chess player that has lost anything except his pants.
Why need we play games following your rules. You dont understand our rules, so you have no qualification to evaluate our manners.

 

[mike2000 is back]

China literally invented diplomacy. China has been playing diplomacy since the spring and authum period.

Then their diplomacy must be quite bad then, since they haven't been able to use it to full effect and avoid invasions and seizure of their lands by foreign/western powers of which Moscow is the main one, having seize huge swaths of their land the size of Europe to this day.

what a good chess player that has lost anything except his pants

Well the god player may have lost a lot, but not everything. If it had lost everything, then China wouldn't be depending on it at all on anything today.In fact if it had lost everything as you said, China wouldn't need Russian support/help to balance/tackle the west/U.S. As i said dont underestimate the old bear, they are still militarily/strategically more powerful than China even today.
Moreover they lost their cloths/influence mainly because of we in the U.S/west. Not because of any Asian country, if anything no Asian country could tackle the U.S.S.R/SOVIETS.

Trust me, bro, the wars with Hun, Turk, Mongol, Sienpi all took hundreds of years, you just need be patient. Your country is too young compared to China, so you never have the enough scale of view of history to evaluate that.

I dont think even the most ultra nationalistic Chinese member on here like @Beidou2020 believes you can ever assimilate Russia. If so you would have done it long ago. In fact its been the opposite throughout History. i.e Russia bullying/invading/seizing land from China. Remember why Mongolia(one of the worlds largest country) is independent today?

 

[mike2000 is back]

lol are you delusional?

you could have kept Hong Kong in 1997 why wouldn't you? why didn't you force us to sign another Treaty of Nanking?

When the Sino-Russian boarder treaty was signed in 2004, Russia gave up lands that were under Russian control.

I'm saying if we had used your so called strategic ally Russia's strategy, we would have made Hong Kong part of our country, just like Russia did with your vast outer Manchuria which is now part of it's
indisputable territory of Russia.

Russia gave you their land? Looool. So
you consider a piece of your land Russia seized and returned you a little piece back after much begging and pressure to be a victory for you?lool. That was just a little sign of 'goodwill' Russia showed you. It's like me seizing your cake and then cutting a little tiny piece to give you as a sign of goodwill then you are all happy/grateful . Lool. A good chess player Moscow is.