Pakistan Air Force To Gain Superiority Over Indian Air Force

[Dazzler]

While this is an issue with older IAF/IN aircraft (Jaguars and MiGs, lets say), it doesn't factor in to the same degree of loss when mounted onto a Su-30MKI type platform, where the internal avionics more than make up for the functionality absence.

The 8222 is only one of the systems used by the IAF now, anyway. I believe they're looking at expanding the capabilities of the Tusker and Knirti pods. The MiG-29UPG will also come with a Virgilius-based suite co-opted with indigenous systems, along with EL/L-8251 pods. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the IAF showed interest in an Elta EL/L-8240 derivative, having examined it while it was on offer with the F-16 Blk.70s during the MRCA.

The comparison i made was on what the IAF and PAF has as of today, not what they might or might not have tomorrow. Israeli jammers that you have mentioned are utility jammers i.e., they can be used on multiple accounts but what PAF operates are heavy duty jammers. ALQ-131 and ALQ 211... Both are excellent options in an electronic warfare environment but high powered jammers have more juice to deliver under dense environment which, ELTA 8251 qualifies for, but that is not with IAF as of today. Bottom line is that a multi spectral EW environment will need heavy duty jammers.

 

[rashtriya.rifles]

That vintage Mig before going down killed how many terrorists? lol That hit was an exception. If you shoot in the sky a million time, one bird can fall. Thats your achievement.

how can they know ? they never accepted the bodies

That vintage Mig before going down killed how many terrorists? lol That hit was an exception. If you shoot in the sky a million time, one bird can fall. Thats your achievement.

how can they know ? they never accepted the bodies

 

[Dazzler]

how can they know ? they never accepted the bodies



how can they know ? they never accepted the bodies

Flame bait and far from topic...

 

[Zarvan]

Tejas & Rafale are key changers.......no more worries

First Tejas is no match to JF-17 secondly Yes Rafale is a really good plane but you are forgetting we are getting J-10 and some more F-16 and J-10 final number in our Air Force would be 150 along with 250 JF-17 Block 2 and around 100 F-16 and already working on Block 3 JF -17

 

[RazPaK]

Whether PAF will gain superiority over IAF is out of question now. What we need is a much more advanced air force. We need 10 more AEROSTAT, 15 Arudhra AESA radars, 20 LRET quick inductions of MRSAM, SPYDER and Indian AWACS. We need to put the early warning satellites earlier. Modernization of MKI, MIRAGE-2000, Mig-29 and above all we need fast mass production of Tejas. India should seriously consider joining ultra long range SAM project like S-500. That way we can deter PAF.








We Bhaarteez always has the superiority complex, thanks to reality. Don't compare third generation Phalcon with some chinese junk. That is an insult.


That vintage Mig before going down killed how many terrorists? lol That hit was an exception. If you shoot in the sky a million time, one bird can fall. Thats your achievement.

How are your fighters going to go down in a conflict, where our air force wasn't even deployed?



You mad son?

 

[Dazzler]

That way even a good portion of the F 16s in PAF are 25-30 years old.. And please expand on the assertion of PAF replacing old aircrafts with new ones at a faster rate.. I think you are forgetting a continuous add of 15-20 SU 30 MKIs every year by IAF, which is probably a much faster rate than PAF. Add to that the kick off of induction of LCA and MMRCA in next 2 years and its suddenly a different ball game all together now.. Isnt it?

That is not true, 15-20 MKI a year?? are you sure about these numbers? Plz qualify your statement with facts. Also , how many Mig 21 Bis does IAF operate today and how many older versions have been retired? The fact that since 2007, PAF has 38 jf-17, 16+18 F-16s (blk 15 and 52+) 4 Erieye and 1 ZDK-03 in service. A-5 has been retired and being replaced by jf-17. Next in line is older Mirages which are to be replaced with jf-17s most likely in June or July, 2012. LCA is an aircraft that i wish to see in IAF ASAP because it deserves to be inducted in IAF by now but reality suggests otherwise although there is good progress, if it is inducted before 2014, it will be an achievement. MMRCA will not be a part of IAF even after 2015 judging from the induction history and delays in IAF fleet.

 

[sudhir007]

First Tejas is no match to JF-17 secondly Yes Rafale is a really good plane but you are forgetting we are getting J-10 and some more F-16 and J-10 final number in our Air Force would be 150 along with 250 JF-17 Block 2 and around 100 F-16 and already working on Block 3 JF -17

how many J-10 you r inducting, as per some news around 2sqd. + 4sqd. f-16.(till there are 2 sqd around 20-25yr old) and we are inducting around 6sqd of Rafale in initial and the no will be increase around 200. both of your a/c can not match rafale in quality and quantity.
Just wait for 2yr more

 

[Dazzler]

how many J-10 you r inducting, as per some news around 2sqd. + 4sqd. f-16.(till there are 2 sqd around 20-25yr old) and we are inducting around 6sqd of Rafale in initial and the no will be increase around 200. both of your a/c can not match rafale in quality and quantity.
Just wait for 2yr more

A vague statement since we do not know about the capabilities of FC-20 a.k.a. J-10B except for what is available on internet that it has AESA, advanced EW and sensor fusion and it is used as a test platform to qualify avionics and radar of J-20. Now, an aircraft which has such capability is more than handy against any 4th or advanced 4th gen aircraft. Some information on j-10b can be found here....

"The latest 1035 prototype of the J-10B (K/JJ10B?) was photographed at CAC airfield in July 2011, revealing the indigenous WS-10B (?) turbofan engine. This much improved variant (1031 prototype) made its maiden flight on December 23, 2008, powered by a Russian AL-31FN engine. The improvements include a DSI/bump engine inlet which not only cuts weight but also reduces RCS, after a similar design was first tested onboard FC-1/JF-17. The aircraft also features a J-11B style IRST/LR and a wide-angle holographic HUD. IRST allows passive detection of enemy aircraft, making J-10B more stealthy in combat. Its nose appears flatter too, similar to that of American F-16, housing fire-control radar which could be an X-band AESA developed by the 14th Institute (track 10, engage 4 simultaneously), the first of such type ever being developed for a Chinese fighter aircraft, giving J-10B a stronger multi-target engagement and ECCM capability. An ECM antenna can also be seen ahead of the canard foreplane. Two large pods housing testing equipments were attached under the wings. The tip of vertical tailfin was redesigned as well, featuring a large fairing containing communication and ECM antennas, which resembles that of French Mirage 2000. A rear facing MAWS sensor can be seen underneath the parachute boom. A similar system was tested onboard FC-1/JF-17. RAM coating is also expected in certain areas such as engine inlet and wing leading edges to reduce RCS. The aircraft may be fitted with CFTs in the future to further extend its range. All these improvements suggest that J-10B is equipped with a new generation of integrated electronic system, ranging from radar to EW system. Its mission may be changed from air-superiority to multi-role, such as CAS or EW. For air-superiority mission, normally 6 AAMs (PL-12x4 + PL-8x2, PL-12s are carried underneath the twin-rail launch pylon) can be carried. For CAS mission, normally 2 KD-88 AGMs or LS-500J LGBs can be carried. In addition, the aircraft is expected to be powered eventually by a WS-10B turbofan. Overall J-10B is thought to be comparable to American F-16E/Block 60. The 03 prototype first flew in August 2009, with the pitot tube removed from the nose tip. Both 1031 & 1034 prototypes are currently being tested at CFTE. J-10B is likely to serve as a testbed for various advanced technologies adopted by the 4th generation J-20 (see below) currently under development at CAC thus may not enter the service in large quantity with PLAAF. The production of J-10B is expected to be imminent (07 batch?). The initial batches are likely to be powered by Russian AL-31FN engines due to the low productivity rate of WS-10B. A further upgraded semi-stealth variant (J-10C?) might be developed as well but no details are available. "

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

 

[OrionHunter]

By the way,I wonder why you posted an article from this source,which calls itself "Asian Defence" But the banner reads:
"A Country without a strong defense is at the mercy of any aggressor. Pakistan must build up her defense as quickly as possible. It must be an efficient air force,army and navy second to none"
I guess that should be enough to prove its audenticity and intention to write such article.

Didn't you know that 'Asian Defence' is actually a third rate Pakistani publication whose boss is one Mr Yassir?

So what can one expect but rabble rousing against India?

 

[Dazzler]

Didn't you know that 'Asian Defence' is actually a third rate Pakistani publication whose boss is one Mr Yassir?

So what can one expect but rabble rousing against India?

This is not Asian Defense.....

IAF losing edge over PAF : North News - India Today

 

[sudhir007]

That is not true, 15-20 MKI a year?? are you sure about these numbers? Plz qualify your statement with facts. Also , how many Mig 21 Bis does IAF operate today and how many older versions have been retired? The fact that since 2007, PAF has 38 jf-17, 16+18 F-16s (blk 15 and 52+) 4 Erieye and 1 ZDK-03 in service. A-5 has been retired and being replaced by jf-17. Next in line is older Mirages which are to be replaced with jf-17s most likely in June or July, 2012. LCA is an aircraft that i wish to see in IAF ASAP because it deserves to be inducted in IAF by now but reality suggests otherwise although there is good progress, if it is inducted before 2014, it will an achievement. MMRCA will not be a part of IAF even after 2015 judging from the induction history and delays in IAF fleet.

Today the situation is same for IAF & PAF coze both inducted around 20 plane yr u r with Jf-17 & we are with Su-30mki. and we are retire around 120-130 Mig-21 before 2015. same with paf they have to retire Mirage-III, V and A-5. And AEW&C we have 3 phalcon + 2 order and 3 desi will come at 2014.

 

[Vritra]

The comparison i made was on what the IAF and PAF has as of today, not what they might or might not have tomorrow.

I believe the fist part of my statement was about "what IAF has as of today".

Speaking of which, the AIDEWS pod is a fairly recent acquisition, and still under integration on the F-16s as of April this year. As far as the media reports that I've seen go, upto 36 systems have been acquired. A lower number than the total number of Blk.52s/MLUs the PAF flies, is it not?

Israeli jammers that you have mentioned are utility jammers

Yes, they are. They are augmented by the MKI's integrated EW suite's capabilities, similar to the function of the ALQ-211. Not as advanced, as you have pointed out, but they still provide a credible threat. The exact figures remain unknown to the public, but the EL/L-8222 are capable of ATRWR + ATRJ, and AARFE. Also, it contains a DRFM, something absent from the recent PAF ALQ-211 purchase... or was a replacement system for the ITT-built one selected?

My point being, The EL/L-8222 remain perfectly credible in the subcontinental airborne EW arena, especially when mounted on the MKI, where the in-built EW suite is capable of augmenting its functions with built in signal identifiers, jammers, and RWR systems.

Bottom line is that a multi spectral EW environment will need heavy duty jammers.

No argument there.

 

[The Great One]

@nabil
Can you show us a single piece of official paper which states that J-10B has or will have an AESA along some definition about those claimed advanced EW, and sensor fusion.
And please no more of this

Its nose appears flatter too, similar to that of American F-16, housing fire-control radar which could be an X-band AESA

 

[Dazzler]

Today the situation is same for IAF & PAF coze both inducted around 20 plane yr u r with Jf-17 & we are with Su-30mki. and we are retire around 120-130 Mig-21 before 2015. same with paf they have to retire Mirage-III, V and A-5. And AEW&C we have 3 phalcon + 2 order and 3 desi will come at 2014.

No one has provided any source to back the claim for 20 MKIs per year. Also, what you are missing is the fact that IAF only has the MKI as a new induction which saw its life in the 90s so MKI is not so young as well. Same with F-16 but where the worries initiate is that LCA is not so close to induction and MMRCA is not even in the picture let alone induction till 2014-15. FGFA is a farcry till 2020 atleast. In the mean time, PAF has FC-20 to be inducted by 2014, initial number is 36 with final number is between 120-150. Rest, you can figure out for yourself.

@nabil
Can you show us a single piece of official paper which states that J-10B has or will have an AESA along some definition about those claimed advanced EW, and sensor fusion.
And please no more of this

Close up of J-10B and J-20 AESA set? - Asian Skies

International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > China’s Maturing Fighter Force

 

[Kinetic]

How are your fighters going to go down in a conflict, where our air force wasn't even deployed?



You mad son?

kaha ke idiot hein ye????

you were not in this world when that happen, but google is there, search for it. There is something called MANPAD, which is cost less and Pakistan got many of them from China. Our fighters were freely bombing infiltrator hideouts in Kargil under intense fire from Pakistan. By one in a million chance, one fighter got a hit. lol

This is your first lesson, kiddo.