Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[GriffinsRule]

Let's for a second forget about the radar, jamming capability and loiter time of the su30's and stick to the payload of both these machines. Su30 could carry a mix of 4 wvr's and and 8 bvr's. now there's a high probability that Indians won't be engaging us In a dog fight so what's left is the bvr arena - - - - - - - - -.


An Su30 gets airborne and fires a volley of 3-4 bvr's flying on a forward operating airbase near pak border cities like Lahore etc and then scoot back deep inside India - - - - - - - - - while the Thunder has the "luxury" of firing only 2 . Now tell us which aircraft's chances are high to score a hit ?

In this case your man behind the machine theory would crash somewhere in Pakistan if not already blown into pieces in the air .

Another example would be of a burger teenager armed with a Gatling gun pitched against a marine with a standard m-4 rifle - - - - - - - I won't bet a single penny on the mere jazba and training of that marine .

How close does the Indian Su-30 have to be to shoot his 4 missile load, and if he is turning back, how are the missiles going to be guided to the target?
PS Man behind the machine matters when the pilot retains his cool and follows his training and procedures to defeat the incoming BVR missiles. So yes it does matter. Put the same man in a better machine and you just increase his effectiveness. Put a shitty pilot on a Su-30 and he would land his jet in some PAF FOB from fear of getting shot down lol.

 

[Mentee]

How close does the Indian Su-30 have to be to shoot his 4 missile load, and if he is turning back, how are the missiles going to be guided to the target?

There have been many technological breakthroughs in the field of air weaponry like awacs guiding the missiles, bvr's own guidance system - - - - - -.

Moreover Do keep in mind the su's loiter time .

 

[CriticalThought]

Let's for a second forget about the radar, jamming capability and loiter time of the su30's and stick to the payload of both these machines. Su30 could carry a mix of 4 wvr's and and 8 bvr's. now there's a high probability that Indians won't be engaging us In a dog fight so what's left is the bvr arena - - - - - - - - -.


An Su30 gets airborne and fires a volley of 3-4 bvr's flying on a forward operating airbase near pak border cities like Lahore etc and then scoot back deep inside India - - - - - - - - - while the Thunder has the "luxury" of firing only 2 . Now tell us which aircraft's chances are high to score a hit ?

In this case your man behind the machine theory would crash somewhere in Pakistan if not already blown into pieces in the air .

Another example would be of a burger teenager armed with a Gatling gun pitched against a marine with a standard m-4 rifle - - - - - - - I won't bet a single penny on the mere jazba and training of that marine .

This is highly technically inaccurate.

This is how BVR engagements happen in real life. The Flanker has the option to fire multiple BVRs to increase probability of kill on one target, or engage multiple targets. From the onset, man behind machine will matter. Other than keeping cool in tense situation and keeping one's wits about, it takes years of experience to assess the situation in air and form the correct mental picture of the battle. Decision needs to be made on whether own radar will be used or ground controller guidance. If all of a sudden there is complete radio silence, is it a result of EM jamming, or equipment failure, or air controller taken out by enemy action. Who is friend vs foe? But most importantly, which bogey to prioritize? Which accompanying friendly should engage which enemy aircraft? Should the formation spread, or remain tight? All of this needs to be decided within seconds. And a mistake in any one can prove fatal. You have been fed wrong info about the nature of aerial warfare. It is not about blindly shooting some missiles and turning tail. That would make IAF the laughing stock of the world.

Btw, I haven't even covered the engagement itself yet. That's an entirely different can of worms.

There's has been many technological breakthroughs in the field of air weaponry like awacs guiding the missiles, bvr's own guidance system - - - - - -.

Moreover Do keep in mind the su's loiter time .

Sure. It still doesn't mean the Flanker can simply shoot and scoot. If he has AEWACS guidance, then the enemy also has jamming and decoys.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Let's for a second forget about the radar, jamming capability and loiter time of the su30's and stick to the payload of both these machines. Su30 could carry a mix of 4 wvr's and and 8 bvr's. now there's a high probability that Indians won't be engaging us In a dog fight so what's left is the bvr arena - - - - - - - - -.


An Su30 gets airborne and fires a volley of 3-4 bvr's flying on a forward operating airbase near pak border cities like Lahore etc and then scoot back deep inside India - - - - - - - - - while the Thunder has the "luxury" of firing only 2 . Now tell us which aircraft's chances are high to score a hit ?

In this case your man behind the machine theory would crash somewhere in Pakistan if not already blown into pieces in the air .

Another example would be of a burger teenager armed with a Gatling gun pitched against a marine with a standard m-4 rifle - - - - - - - I won't bet a single penny on the mere jazba and training of that marine .

R u a fool? Either you are taking too much charas or you are a moron
Do you know the RCS of SU 30 and that of a JF17? And in BVR a radar and missile with greater range will shoot first. Kill first, number of BVRs is of secondary importance. Do you know the range of missiles on thunder and those on SU 30 ? That's why I always say an idiot with a key board is a most dangerous man

 

[Mentee]

R u a fool? Either you are taking too much charas or you are a moro

Its needless to showoff your upbringing on an online forum. Got no issues if you keep it to your house hold.

in BVR a radar and missile with greater range will shoot first.

And which jet has these attributes?

Do you know the range of missiles on thunder and those on SU 30 ?

are you presuming that the paf gonna engage from 100 - 110 km away from the Indian border and not near or in the Indian airspace ?

Sure. It still doesn't mean the Flanker can simply shoot and scoot. If he has AEWACS guidance, then the enemy also has jamming and decoys.

The crux of the matter is that we have a very short legged airforce and woefully ill equipped for an enemy the size of india

 

[CriticalThought]

R u a fool? Either you are taking too much charas or you are a moron
Do you know the RCS of SU 30 and that of a JF17? And in BVR a radar and missile with greater range will shoot first. Kill first, number of BVRs is of secondary importance. Do you know the range of missiles on thunder and those on SU 30 ? That's why I always say an idiot with a key board is a most dangerous man

Give others the respect you expect for yourself. We are all Pakistanis and now is the time to unite, not divide.

The crux of the matter is that we have a very short legged airforce and woefully ill equipped for an enemy the size of india

Even with an aircraft that could theoretically travel from one end of India to the other and back, you would first need to take out the defences in between. We don't necessarily need an aircraft with endurance. We do need a credible 360 degree attack capability against India. The same can be achieved through airbases. This means leveraging geo-political power.

 

[Mentee]

Pakistani Nation, at every level, is suffering form the Stockholm syndrome. No one dare question the credibility of the system let alone revamping it - - - - - -.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Its needless to showoff your upbringing on an online forum. Got no issues if you keep it to your house hold.



And which jet has these attributes?



are you presuming that the paf gonna engage from 100 - 110 km away from the Indian border and not near or in the Indian airspace ?



The crux of the matter is that we have a very short legged airforce and woefully ill equipped for an enemy the size of india

This shows your inadequate understanding of warfare. After the first violation there will be no respect for international border till the cease fire. Weapons will be used at their full range.
I did not.mention any thing about.your family. As a matter of fact you exposed yours when you mentioned mine. I was just talking of your inadequate understanding of the unfolding of the air battle.

 

[Ultima Thule]

This shows your inadequate understanding of warfare. After the first violation there will be no respect for international border till the cease fire. Weapons will be used at their full range.
I did not.mention any thing about.your family. As a matter of fact you exposed yours when you mentioned mine. I was just talking of your inadequate understanding of the unfolding of the air battle.

woh woh woh, calm down bro, you knows nothing about modern Air battles, no BVR or air to ground weapons is used at extreme ranges, this decrease weapons PK (probability of kill) to increase PK weapons fire at relatively closer this called NEZ (NO ESCAPE ZONE) especially for BVR, for example SD-10 has range of 100 km but that's doesn't means jet fires SD-10 at 100 Km but in no escape zone 70 to 80 km from the target to increase PK, and do research on topic before you post, its a sincere advice @Aasimkhan

 

[maverick1977]

4 to 5 sq of J16 can bring balance of air power in Sub continent.

 

[Aasimkhan]

woh woh woh, calm down bro, you knows nothing about modern Air battles, no BVR or air to ground weapons is used at extreme ranges, this decrease weapons PK (probability of kill) to increase PK weapons fire at relatively closer this called NEZ (NO ESCAPE ZONE) especially for BVR, for example SD-10 has range of 100 km but that's doesn't means jet fires SD-10 at 100 Km but in no escape zone 70 to 80 km from the target to increase PK, and do research on topic before you post, its a sincere advice @Aasimkhan

I didn't say extreme ranges, I said maximum range. If you know so much about missiles then I am sure you know the difference as well. Secondly while you have applied your theory on Pakistanis missiles the same won't apply in the indian side? If range of Pakistani missile will be decreased by 30% then you will not like to apply the same to the indian side?
Thirdly NEZ is most importantly effected by the speed of the missile. A faster missile even if fired from a distance will have greater no escape zone as compared to a slower one even if fired at a closer range. This is just one factor of determination of NEZ. There are many others which I will keep telling.you as you grow older and maturer in missile craft.

woh woh woh, calm down bro, you knows nothing about modern Air battles, no BVR or air to ground weapons is used at extreme ranges, this decrease weapons PK (probability of kill) to increase PK weapons fire at relatively closer this called NEZ (NO ESCAPE ZONE) especially for BVR, for example SD-10 has range of 100 km but that's doesn't means jet fires SD-10 at 100 Km but in no escape zone 70 to 80 km from the target to increase PK, and do research on topic before you post, its a sincere advice @Aasimkhan

Bhai Jan now apply the same theory on the indian side also. Net advantage will remain as I mentioned. How can you decrease the range of one side by 30% one sidedly?

 

[Ultima Thule]

I didn't say extreme ranges, I said maximum range. If you know so much about missiles then I am sure you know the difference as well. Secondly while you have applied your theory on Pakistanis missiles the same won't apply in the indian side? If range of Pakistani missile will be decreased by 30% then you will not like to apply the same to the indian side?
Thirdly NEZ is most importantly effected by the speed of the missile. A faster missile even if fired from a distance will have greater no escape zone as compared to a slower one even if fired at a closer range. This is just one factor of determination of NEZ. There are many others which I will keep telling.you as you grow older and maturer in missile craft.

Bhai Jan now apply the same theory on the indian side also. Net advantage will remain as I mentioned. How can you decrease the range of one side by 30% one sidedly?

Dont fool yourself bro both are same meaning @Aasimkhan and India has longer range BVR then Pakistan R-27/R-77 etc etc, this second para shows you immaturity you have BVR missile has fixed speed but altitude factor reduce its range @Aasimkhan

 

[Aasimkhan]

Lol, see you are acting on the old dictum if you can't solve the issue then confuse the issue. Addition of new factors is this typical example.

Dont fool yourself bro both are same meaning @Aasimkhan and India has longer range BVR then Pakistan R-27/R-77 etc etc, this second para shows you immaturity you have BVR missile has fixed speed but altitude factor reduce its range @Aasimkhan

 

[Ultima Thule]

Lol, see you are acting on the old dictum if you can't solve the issue then confuse the issue. Addition of new factors is this typical example.

your pretending to be an expert but you're not, i know better than you @Aasimkhan

 

[Path-Finder]

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