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Thank you for your posts. I think it is only inevitable that the Chinese engine technology matures with the amount of money and R&D they have poured into it. PAF on the other hand has decided at the moment to steer away from the Chinese Ws13 series and stay the cohrse with the RD series. I remain unsure on those grounds of what the level of maturity is. Perhaps the forays made are in particular engines only and the technology has not trickled down into other projects. Or perhaps the mass priduction cycles are still not reliable. This is understandable as these things take time.
The next juncture in JFT history is the block 3. Do we change tack or stay the course? From PAF and Pak perspective that would be the litmus test of our faith in Chinese engines. Or perhaps the next purchase that we make.
A

Per @messiach its not so much a lack of quality in Chinese engines, rather, the favors showered upon us by Russians. They have given good advice in areas such as reducing noise and heat signatures. This budding relationship is what led PAF to stick with Russians.

At least, that's the way I understood it.
 
Thank you for your posts. I think it is only inevitable that the Chinese engine technology matures with the amount of money and R&D they have poured into it. PAF on the other hand has decided at the moment to steer away from the Chinese Ws13 series and stay the cohrse with the RD series. I remain unsure on those grounds of what the level of maturity is. Perhaps the forays made are in particular engines only and the technology has not trickled down into other projects. Or perhaps the mass priduction cycles are still not reliable. This is understandable as these things take time.
The next juncture in JFT history is the block 3. Do we change tack or stay the course? From PAF and Pak perspective that would be the litmus test of our faith in Chinese engines. Or perhaps the next purchase that we make.
A
It is prudent to use time-tested and robust engines on single-engined fighters. I do understand why PAF shall continue to use RD-93. It would be a nice surprise to see WS-13 if & when it gets used, since it is expected to be a bit more efficient due to higher by-pass ratio. Given recent Chinese advances, it might offer a bit more thrust & engine life.

The Chinese engines shall be used in twin-engine aircraft first. WS-10 (IPE?) being used on J-20 would be a big step and a show of confidence in Chinese engine technology. I just hope that we see WS series powered combat aircraft soon, because that would only expand Pakistan's choice. Maybe its because I am a bit of an old-timer now, I do not like dependence on Russians for anything critical. I think that Russian design philosophy does not suit PAF.
 
It is prudent to use time-tested and robust engines on single-engined fighters. I do understand why PAF shall continue to use RD-93. It would be a nice surprise to see WS-13 if & when it gets used, since it is expected to be a bit more efficient due to higher by-pass ratio. Given recent Chinese advances, it might offer a bit more thrust & engine life.

The Chinese engines shall be used in twin-engine aircraft first. WS-10 (IPE?) being used on J-20 would be a big step and a show of confidence in Chinese engine technology. I just hope that we see WS series powered combat aircraft soon, because that would only expand Pakistan's choice. Maybe its because I am a bit of an old-timer now, I do not like dependence on Russians for anything critical. I think that Russian design philosophy does not suit PAF.
The sense I am getting is that the PAF will actually prefer working with Russia on the engine. They did open talks with Klimov to bring a complete MRO facility for the RD-93 to PAC Kamra in 2015 and in 2016 PAC officials told IHS Jane's that they were interested in both the WS-13 and RD-33MK. Klimov is also developing an RD-93MA, it's due for 2019 and will be marketed towards the Thunder.
 
The sense I am getting is that the PAF will actually prefer working with Russia on the engine. They did open talks with Klimov to bring a complete MRO facility for the RD-93 to PAC Kamra in 2015 and in 2016 PAC officials told IHS Jane's that they were interested in both the WS-13 and RD-33MK. Klimov is also developing an RD-93MA, it's due for 2019 and will be marketed towards the Thunder.

Can we expect it for Thunder Block 3?
 
So Myanmar Jf17 deal is a go? We are giving jets to murderers ?
Please don't just say that they wont be used against rohingya muslims
 
The sense I am getting is that the PAF will actually prefer working with Russia on the engine. They did open talks with Klimov to bring a complete MRO facility for the RD-93 to PAC Kamra in 2015 and in 2016 PAC officials told IHS Jane's that they were interested in both the WS-13 and RD-33MK. Klimov is also developing an RD-93MA, it's due for 2019 and will be marketed towards the Thunder.
Russian timelines are not dependable. Plus I feel that the geopolitically aggressive stance of Russian government would likely run counter to our interests sometime in not-too-distant future. We would do well to insulate ourselves by hedging proactively. Wooing Russia is good, but only where we can maintain choices and not be depending upon them for anything critical.

So Myanmar Jf17 deal is a go? We are giving jets to murderers ?
Please don't just say that they wont be used against rohingya muslims
Its not as simple as that. The deal is with China, not Pakistan. In order to with-hold these planes, we have to get China on board. Chinese do not interfere in other countries' internal affairs and are not likely to with-hold the jets. When we said that jet was sanctions-free, this is what it meant. Moral stances have a price. I would willingly pay it, but I am not sure about others. Burmese are murderers alright. But do Chinese agree? That is the question.
 
Let's not over react here. UK and US supplying KSA and UAE, who are bombing the shite out of the yemenese. Last time I checked Yemen was a Muslim country. no holier than thou attitude there. The a/c haven't even been delivered. Please no double standards.
 
IMG_20170906_100400.jpeg

Just a nice picture AW139
 
Let's not over react here. UK and US supplying KSA and UAE, who are bombing the shite out of the yemenese. Last time I checked Yemen was a Muslim country. no holier than thou attitude there. The a/c haven't even been delivered. Please no double standards.
So some of members here and pakistani's dont condemn attack on yemen and so that justifies the myanmar jf17 deal ? Whether its china who is supplying Pakistan can at least show some anger and ask the china and regional powers to ask them to stop this massacre

Russian timelines are not dependable. Plus I feel that the geopolitically aggressive stance of Russian government would likely run counter to our interests sometime in not-too-distant future. We would do well to insulate ourselves by hedging proactively. Wooing Russia is good, but only where we can maintain choices and not be depending upon them for anything critical.


Its not as simple as that. The deal is with China, not Pakistan. In order to with-hold these planes, we have to get China on board. Chinese do not interfere in other countries' internal affairs and are not likely to with-hold the jets. When we said that jet was sanctions-free, this is what it meant. Moral stances have a price. I would willingly pay it, but I am not sure about others. Burmese are murderers alright. But do Chinese agree? That is the question.
Thank You Sir very professional reply. But We can do something about it ask chinese show some objections. Chinese Love CPEC and Chinese would Love to give us more priority hence they must listen.
 
So some of members here and pakistani's dont condemn attack on yemen and so that justifies the myanmar jf17 deal ? Whether its china who is supplying Pakistan can at least show some anger and ask the china and regional powers to ask them to stop this massacre


Thank You Sir very professional reply. But We can do something about it ask chinese show some objections. Chinese Love CPEC and Chinese would Love to give us more priority hence they must listen.
The reality is that even if you object it will not make any difference. You do not have any bargaining chips with the Myanmar Government. We need to build relations first and then look at the possibility of a positive influence towards achieving our aims. Unfortunately muslims do not matter in this world at this point in time. We need to sort out our own house first before looking externally.
A
 
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So some of members here and pakistani's dont condemn attack on yemen and so that justifies the myanmar jf17 deal ? Whether its china who is supplying Pakistan can at least show some anger and ask the china and regional powers to ask them to stop this massacre


Thank You Sir very professional reply. But We can do something about it ask chinese show some objections. Chinese Love CPEC and Chinese would Love to give us more priority hence they must listen.
Pakistan has condemned Myanmar directly and via the UN.
 
Its about international relations & building alliances. Thank your Lord and then the Russians. What good is a plane without a turbine. Its business afterall but they were in a position to refuse us in the face.

Per @messiach its not so much a lack of quality in Chinese engines, rather, the favors showered upon us by Russians. They have given good advice in areas such as reducing noise and heat signatures. This budding relationship is what led PAF to stick with Russians.

At least, that's the way I understood it.
 

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