Pak Navy Should Reduce The # of Subs To Buy Type 054 Frigates

[Mustang06]

Subs are good deterrence to IN but eventually PN needs surface ships for policing the seas and protection of Pakistani assets. Also surface ships can be used for evacuation of Pakistani nationals from any conflict zone!

 

[black-hawk_101]

Not right. PN should go for:
24 S-20P like Block-I-II-III till 2030
12 F-22P like Block-I-II-III till 2025
07 SSBN till 2030

 

[araz]

Not right. PN should go for:
24 S-20P like Block-I-II-III till 2030
12 F-22P like Block-I-II-III till 2025
07 SSBN till 2030

Mods an we please shut this idiot up.I have been begging you for ages. Please let my aching eyes have some peace.
Araz

 

[black-hawk_101]

Mods an we please shut this idiot up.I have been begging you for ages. Please let my achinc eyes have some peace.
Araz

Sorry.

 

[araz]

Sorry.

Beta for the sake of Allah SWT please have some sense. You have no idea of what our needs are and what we can and cannot afford and indeed need. Yet every time you put up these uunrealistic lists or demands of getting armaments from here and there for free. You need to learn. You have been here long enough . It really pains me to give negative ratings but honestly sometimes I don't know what else I can do. So please please please learn a bit about defence and more importantly finances for it.
Araz

 

[black-hawk_101]

Beta for the sake of Allah SWT please have some sense. You have no idea of what our needs are and what we can and cannot afford and indeed need. Yet every time you put up these uunrealistic lists or demands of getting armaments from here and there for free. You need to learn. You have been hede long enough . It really pains me to give negative ratings but honestly sometimes I don't know what else I can do. So please please please learn a bit about defence and more importantly finances for it.
Araz

So it to was good to make a deal with UK for acquiring 16 frigates starting from 2010 and upgrade them locally?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Submarine order stays , as these are far more superior option to have vs a frigate.

Pakistan Navy Lacks Submarine force considering its large coast line and international obligation to protect its waters


6 Submarines are due to raise the level of Navy and also keep us moving towards Nuclear Submarine Goals which our Military had clearly stated is their goal.


F22P frigate is light but the weapons it has serve the purpose to take out enemy ship
4 More F22P frigate is idea for our needs in upcoming future.


OHP , ships armed with air defenses (GENESIS) should help us bridge the gap in term of large vessels with good air defenses


-------------------------------Submarine Force (10)


------------OHP - OHP ----------OHP---------------------OHP ------OHP (5)


F22P---F22P ---F22P --F22P -----------------F22P---F22P - F22P - F22P (8)
-----------------------------------tariq class frigate (5) probably will retire

----------------------------------Missile Boat (22-30)


Enough for Navy for 10-15 years

OHP would cover the role of Ship , with Air Defences & Submarine defences
We are expected to get 3 OHP

 

[araz]

Submarine order stays , as these are far more superior option to have vs a frigate.

Pakistan Navy Lacks Submarine force considering its large coast line and international obligation to protect its waters


6 Submarines are due to raise the level of Navy and also keep us moving towards Nuclear Submarine Goals which our Military had clearly stated is their goal.


F22P frigate is light but the weapons it has serve the purpose to take out enemy ship
4 More F22P frigate is idea for our needs in upcoming future.


OHP , ships armed with air defenses (GENESIS) should help us bridge the gap in term of large vessels with good air defenses


-------------------------------Submarine Force (10)


------------OHP - OHP ----------OHP---------------------OHP ------OHP (5)


F22P---F22P ---F22P --F22P -----------------F22P---F22P - F22P - F22P (8)
-----------------------------------tariq class frigate (5) probably will retire

----------------------------------Missile Boat (22-30)


Enough for Navy for 10-15 years

OHP would cover the role of Ship , with Air Defences & Submarine defences
We are expected to get 3 OHP

I think the OHP line has dried up. You maybe expecting it but the US has other ideas. We need to move on from the OHP saga. If we can lease some 054s it would be nice and we wait for the next acquisition round. I dont think much is going to happen very soon.
Araz

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Bad idea, the sub fleet should always remain as the high priority.

 

[Super Falcon]

Submarine order stays , as these are far more superior option to have vs a frigate.

Pakistan Navy Lacks Submarine force considering its large coast line and international obligation to protect its waters


6 Submarines are due to raise the level of Navy and also keep us moving towards Nuclear Submarine Goals which our Military had clearly stated is their goal.


F22P frigate is light but the weapons it has serve the purpose to take out enemy ship
4 More F22P frigate is idea for our needs in upcoming future.


OHP , ships armed with air defenses (GENESIS) should help us bridge the gap in term of large vessels with good air defenses


-------------------------------Submarine Force (10)


------------OHP - OHP ----------OHP---------------------OHP ------OHP (5)


F22P---F22P ---F22P --F22P -----------------F22P---F22P - F22P - F22P (8)
-----------------------------------tariq class frigate (5) probably will retire

----------------------------------Missile Boat (22-30)


Enough for Navy for 10-15 years

OHP would cover the role of Ship , with Air Defences & Submarine defences
We are expected to get 3 OHP

Dear US rejected to ransfer further OHP due to pak human rights record is bad as i got news year ago

We need destroyers most of navy has them in fleet our navy save money and buy 4 subs and 4 destroyers will make pn full fledge force in our waters

 

[araz]

Dear US rejected to ransfer further OHP due to pak human rights record is bad as i got news year ago

We need destroyers most of navy has them in fleet our navy save money and buy 4 subs and 4 destroyers will make pn full fledge force in our waters

The bottom line is we can keep discussing the issue till the cows come home and not reach a decision. The problem is that we dont know what went on in the negotiations and what offers were made and accepted by PN. Till we do all debate on the subject is futiĺe. Iam sure more information about the subject will be released in due course and will explain why the deal was done in this way.

 

[ziaulislam]

Worst kind of Frigate you could invest in.

If you keep it close to your shores, you should have invested in ground based anti-Air assets.

If you send it to high seas, its survival chance against Indian fleet is zero.




Wrong.

A Submarine ,once detected, is a dead sub. It could not retaliate against airborne anti-sub assets at all, and would find it very difficult to retaliate even against ship based anti-Sub assets. A frigate could retaliate in whole spectrum (Submerged,surface,and air) depending upon its capabilities. It has higher chance of detection but also higher chance of survival.

...............................................................................................................................................................................

And @MastanKhan and other, who are advocating induction of surface ships at the cost of subs; how do you plan to protect those surface ships?

A submarine does need need additional investment in other assets specifically for protection of that submarine, but a surface fleet needs to induct anti-Sub frigate and other ASW assets for protection.

For India, any danger from Pakistani fleet comes from submereged assets, hence India has invested in and developed an expansive anti-Sub warfare arm, while in comparison, Pakistan's ASW arm is practically non existent.

If you people induct an Air-Defence or Anti-Ship Frigate, even a WWII relic could sink that Ship.

If you people induct an Anti-Sub Frigate, than a pertinent question would be: Why you inducted that ship at all?

In order to have a semblance of surface fleet, you would need to induct very large number of Ships. Couple of Frigates would be a complete waste of money.


Now don't bring P3C Orion into discussion. Handful of P3Cs against a Navy having carrier-borne Aircrafts and an Airforce whose operational radius out-ranges P3C's would lead to turkey shoot of a hapless P3C. It is not an aircraft capable of defending itself against proper fighter Jets.

wrong submarines can hit air born targets due to its self seeking anti air assets/missile systems
wrong again, even if detetcted subs have capability to evade antisub weapons if it dives deeper and deploy counter measures
wrong again, if P#C is turkeyshot for fighter jets so is your advance Poseidon is...
wrong again, frigates have better endurance and multi mission rule that cannot be achieved by a sub.
lastly, you are wrong again, india has vast territory, she cannot get itself locked with single country, and indian high command knows it better


the only real difference between newer P3C and Poseidon is its range and endurance

why are Indian defense buys so expensive..?
because they have ridiculous difficult clauses, TOT and Offset rules and they are not Govt to govt basis

 

[Super Falcon]

The bottom line is we can keep discussing the issue till the cows come home and not reach a decision. The problem is that we dont know what went on in the negotiations and what offers were made and accepted by PN. Till we do all debate on the subject is futiĺe. Iam sure more information about the subject will be released in due course and will explain why the deal was done in this way.

Since OHP over we coul have revised sub deal bought out of 8 subs only remining 4 sub money we could got destroyers from china china defence open all doors just we have to choose they offer us what we want

 

[Fenrir]

wrong submarines can hit air born targets due to its self seeking anti air assets/missle systems

It's an emerging capability, but one that so far hasn't proliferated too much:

Submarine anti-air missile aren't a new concept though, they're only now become mature enough to allow the submarine to remain safe while dealing with aerial threats, where as before they'd have to surface:

Here's a "Blowpipe" missile on HMS Aneas in 1972

Today the IDAS missile is in develpment for the Type 212 and prospective type 216:

These systems aren't mature enough to defend a submarine from aerial threats, yet. These are hardly a replacement for air-defense frigates/destroyers.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What I love about submarines is , they hide under the sea and chill out , no need to worry from any fighter jets buzzing around