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Musharraf exposing bharti propaganda.
Rafi,how do u manage to outdo yourself everytime and r u so jobless? and how come as a jatt,u r not farming at all?
Ah good sir, solutions are only required if there are problems and the current structure of Pakistani politics is extremely comfortable for those in charge. Feudals and Generals alike would have the status quo continue for many more years.
While I understand your sentiment, do also think about the Pakistanis that have died due to these misadventures. For every Indian or Afghani or even American, far more Pakistanis have given their lives simply because someone in Islamabad decided he will make a name for himself. The cause of those in power is only strengthened when Pakistani soldiers die, because what no nation will do is to abandon its soldiers; the common public invariably falls behind the Generals and the whole ordeal turns into a self fulfilling prophecy. As I said before, a war just has to be started and everything falls into place.
If there is going to be a change, it would require either the elimination of external threats (unlikely) or continuous failure and exposure of the PA in protecting its citizen (painstakingly slow). In the end, the fear is: Pakistan may over play it's hand one too many times in global politics and give the USA or India the convenient excuse to take matters into their own hands. Guess who'll make up the bulk of the dead in that situation? As usual, the Pakistanis of course.
I say this not to undermine the loss of Indians, but to point out that we are all sufferers in this grand chess game that the Pakistani elite are playing and none are more desperate than Pakistanis, who seem to die for no cause at all. They don't even have the benefit of their government exacting revenge on those responsible as the Indians and Americans often promise; since those responsible for these crimes are the very people that lead them.
I think these African kids would prove to be a better warriors than Pakistani Army.
Well our farm has plenty of workers to take care of business, but our profession is to keep watch on the eternal enemy.
I say this with sincerity, from the heart: I regret the deaths of Pakistani soldiers, and those loyal Pakistani officers who were doing their duty and serving their country, just one measure less than I regret the death of our own soldiers, sailors and airmen. Please be sure that any disparaging remarks made by me in previous comments were intended for the special attention of one of the most disliked jingoes on the forum. No insult or disparagement of any serviceman was intended.
It is certain that I speak for the vast bulk of my countrymen. AJTR has a rocky integrity which sets her apart, and nobody needs to apologize on her behalf, but the rest of us were provoked into anger and saying unseemly things. Even dear Cap'n Popeye took up the cudgels, so you can judge for yourself how strong the dislike was.
Sincere good wishes.
Ah good sir, solutions are only required if there are problems and the current structure of Pakistani politics is extremely comfortable for those in charge. Feudals and Generals alike would have the status quo continue for many more years.
While I understand your sentiment, do also think about the Pakistanis that have died due to these misadventures. For every Indian or Afghani or even American, far more Pakistanis have given their lives simply because someone in Islamabad decided he will make a name for himself. The cause of those in power is only strengthened when Pakistani soldiers die, because what no nation will do is to abandon its soldiers; the common public invariably falls behind the Generals and the whole ordeal turns into a self fulfilling prophecy. As I said before, a war just has to be started and everything falls into place.
If there is going to be a change, it would require either the elimination of external threats (unlikely) or continuous failure and exposure of the PA in protecting its citizen (painstakingly slow). In the end, the fear is: Pakistan may over play it's hand one too many times in global politics and give the USA or India the convenient excuse to take matters into their own hands. Guess who'll make up the bulk of the dead in that situation? As usual, the Pakistanis of course.
I say this not to undermine the loss of Indians, but to point out that we are all sufferers in this grand chess game that the Pakistani elite are playing and none are more desperate than Pakistanis, who seem to die for no cause at all. They don't even have the benefit of their government exacting revenge on those responsible as the Indians and Americans often promise; since those responsible for these crimes are the very people that lead them.
Well our farm has plenty of workers to take care of business, but our profession is to keep watch on the eternal enemy.
I have tried to avoid this thread but why don't you go over the remarks made by your countrymen?
Seriously take a look.
Well our farm has plenty of workers to take care of business, but our profession is to keep watch on the eternal enemy.
Admirably put. And no Sir, I am not applauding any criticism (explicit or implicit) of Pakistan in your post.
Some ground realities need to be reaffirmed. Pakistan exists. Pakistan has a right to live in Peace and Prosperity. Just as my country of origin, India does. Notwithstanding the rivalry/enmity or whatever that exists between them.
Taking it further from what you have written, what has bedevilled Pakistan is the fact that individuals in that country have repeatedly subordinated their country's interests to their own; to the extent that Mr. Jinnah's dream for his contry has been completely forgotten just as his memory in the scheme of things in Pakistan is simply a picture of a patrician gentleman enclosed in a gilt frame hanging on various walls in his country. The Quaid would grieve deeply to see the direction that his beloved creation has taken over the years. Was this the 'moth-eaten Pakistan' that he worried about?
Mr. Jinnah apart from being the brilliant and far seeing mind that he was; was first and foremost a Politician who believed unreservedly in Democracy. He never wore a Khaki Uniform in his life unto his dying day. So why did his people turn their backs on Democracy? Why did they never make any sincere and sustained efforts to sustain the political system? When did they get so enamored of Uniforms, Dandas and Jack-Boots? And ungrudgingly accept subservience to all this? Were'nt these the very things that Mr. Jinnah fought against to create his own country? If he were alive today, would he have happily and willingly accepted coming under the rule of this all over again?
Its time for the Awaam of Pakistan where their destiny lies and how to head in that direction. Or accept being in the status of a 'has-been state'. Mr. Jinnah's fears of a 'moth-eaten' Pakistan can scarcely be allowed to be realised.
I am sorry to contradict you, but the Arguments demand it.
In 1948, you captured 1/3 of the state by mounting an attack on unsuspecting State troops, barely fit to bear arms. When the Indian Army came in, those same all-conquering heroes charged back fairly fast. You also omit to mention that you could have captured the whole state if your heroes had not stopped to rape, loot and murder. But those don't fall into the list of major victories, presumably, only the minor list.
In 1965, again, it was an unprovoked attack on a peaceful country, the second within months. Considering the amount of effort you spent, using large numbers of SSG commandos dressed up as native militants (rather familiar - it was the same story in Kargil, with NLI instead of SSG), a full-scale armoured attack frustrated only by the imbecile behaviour of your own high command, it is curious that you consider this a stalemate. None of your war objectives were met, not the military ones, anyway. Bhutto got what he wanted, the removal of one more obstacle to the throne, but the military didn't. Our objective was to throw the invaders out. We met ours. An armed mugger attacks a peaceful citizen, the peaceful citizen fights him off successfully, and you report it as a draw?
In 1971, it was a defeat. There are many instances in history of defeats. So what? Defeat is defeat. Nobody asked you to stick an army into a tight corner and simultaneously provoke a war.
In 1999, it was another failed felony, armed burglary this time, rather than a mugging. How does a failed felony entitle you to aggrandize yourselves? Or to claim military distinction, or credit?
Lastly, were you disguised as LTTE in 1987? if not, what was the point you wanted to make?
LoL why are you Indians so freaked out about a gun? You were just chest thumping a few pages earlier?
A gun is a tool like a knife or a hammer.