Pak-Fa is work in progress

[OCguy]

PAKFA will have 50% financial contribution from us. Which means as investors, we have the right to see the technologies involved. If the deal is signed, we will be spending billions on every area of work.

I don't understand why Russians are not showing the prototypes to an equal financial partner. We have agreed to acquire 250 of them alone after developing it for heavens' sake.

The Russians are having difficulty and delays, and do not want to give out specific information that will end up in the press.

 

[Vinayak Tiwari]

I'm afraid that PAK-FA might become another catastrophic investment for India. Countries like Australia have procured F-35s then why is India lagging behind? I think we should give some more attention to DRDO AURA and AMCA projects which have been overshadowed by this Russian junk.

 

[sancho]

The Russians are having difficulty and delays, and do not want to give out specific information that will end up in the press.

LoL. because of this fire?

Actually they are doing pretty well according to their timeline of induction in 2016. With at least 3 x T50s now in testing of radar, EW, avionics and even weapons, they should keep it easily and they might divert more prototypes now sooner than expected.

My dear friend F-22 is the standard of stealth shaping to follow.

Wrong, the YF23 was considered as more stealthy, therefor IF someone would want to follow anything wrt stealth design (which is silly since every fighter is developed with different requirements), one must follow that design and not the F22!

 

[SQ8]

LoL. because of this fire?

Actually they are doing pretty well according to their timeline of induction in 2016. With at least 3 x T50s now in testing of radar, EW, avionics and even weapons, they should keep it easily and they might divert more prototypes now sooner than expected.

The fire would have raised an issue when it came to western testing standards and precautions. The Russians would be ok to let the thing fly regardless of whether its screens turn on and off during the flight because it is a matter of prestige to get this thing into service on time(whether it is ready for it or not is a different issue).

 

[sancho]

The fire would have raised an issue when it came to western testing standards and precautions. The Russians would be ok to let the thing fly regardless of whether its screens turn on and off during the flight because it is a matter of prestige to get this thing into service on time(whether it is ready for it or not is a different issue).

According to the reports the Russians will do investigations too, but that doesn't mean there are difficulties or delays as claimed. From the location of the fire a malfunction of the engine can be ruled out I guess and the problem occurred during the landing which even can hint on a bird strike that hit the intake. So lets wait and see.
Of course it's unfortunate, the pilot was able to land the fighter savely and to get out of it without injuries, which so far does not hint to a major problem.

 

[OCguy]

Actually they are doing pretty well according to their timeline of induction in 2016. With at least 3 x T50s now in testing of radar, EW, avionics and even weapons, they should keep it easily and they might divert more prototypes now sooner than expected.

I'd be surprised if there was an operational unit before 2018.

 

[sancho]

I'd be surprised if there was an operational unit before 2018.

Based on?

 

[OCguy]

Based on?

How many are in existence so far. 2 years is not a lot of time to finish basic testing and troubleshooting, and 5 prototypes is not a lot of units to train pilots and maintenance crews.

 

[Koovie]

I'm afraid that PAK-FA might become another catastrophic investment for India. Countries like Australia have procured F-35s then why is India lagging behind? I think we should give some more attention to DRDO AURA and AMCA projects which have been overshadowed by this Russian junk.

1.) Australia is a US lapdog, thats why they buy critical equipment like fighters from the USA.

2.) Russia has over 80 years of aviation history. Russian companies have pushed aircraft development (which is on of the most sophisticated ones) several times into new generations.

HAL and DRDO are nowhere close to them. This chance is unique and we are indeed luck that we got it.

 

[sancho]

How many are in existence so far. 2 years is not a lot of time to finish basic testing and troubleshooting, and 5 prototypes is not a lot of units to train pilots and maintenance crews.

They had 5 prototypes "flying", afaik 2 more for ground tests and 2 more announced to be added soon, not to mention that they have simulators and tech demo versions of the Flankers for example, that are doing weapon bay, radar or avionics tests. Many of the current features like the electro-optics or the EW are developed from the systems Russia has developed for Su 35 and Mig 35 only a few years ago.
The version that Russia and India later gets, will be even more advanced and therefor will come only around 2020, while this early version can be fast-tracked.

 

[SQ8]

According to the reports the Russians will do investigations too, but that doesn't mean there are difficulties or delays as claimed. From the location of the fire a malfunction of the engine can be ruled out I guess and the problem occurred during the landing which even can hint on a bird strike that hit the intake. So lets wait and see.
Of course it's unfortunate, the pilot was able to land the fighter savely and to get out of it without injuries, which so far does not hint to a major problem.

I would owe that to the design inherent in the latest Sukhois.. the spacing of the engines from one another. What it allows is for one engine to essentially go bonkers and still keep the other relatively safe.

 

[OCguy]

1.) Australia is a US lapdog, thats why they buy critical equipment like fighters from the USA.

Australia is buying the F-35, because the US has had 5th Gen flying for 20 years, and they will get their first 4 units in 2018.

Meanwhile India's decision to purchase fewer planes, Russia's failure to even submit a bid to South Korea in time for consideration, and projected delivery to Malaysia being 2028 or later, are not confidence building if you are a potential buyer.

 

[Storm Force]

Not convinced that India will signup for this deal with the funds that Russia wannts/desires which is $ billions up front.

With Rafale deal happening soon & Tejas being pushed into IAF faces in name of indengious growth i just cant see india finding the cash for a massive third fighter project.

Something HAS TO GIVE the timelines are all the same.

ie

Rafale delivery 2017 license build 2019 onwards
Tejas mk2 2019 license build 2020 onwards
Pak Fa delivery 2020 license build 2022 onwards

3 seperate fighter projects by a poor developing country. JUST WILL NOT HAPPEN

Too many projects at the same time both quality and delivery and cost will be massively effected

 

[NKVD]

Not convinced that India will signup for this deal with the funds that Russia wannts/desires which is $ billions up front.

With Rafale deal happening soon & Tejas being pushed into IAF faces in name of indengious growth i just cant see india finding the cash for a massive third fighter project.

Something HAS TO GIVE the timelines are all the same.

ie

Rafale delivery 2017 license build 2019 onwards
Tejas mk2 2019 license build 2020 onwards
Pak Fa delivery 2020 license build 2022 onwards

3 seperate fighter projects by a poor developing country. JUST WILL NOT HAPPEN

Too many projects at the same time both quality and delivery and cost will be massively effected

If you take it aur not MoD will not cancel this deal.if it will comes to funds govt maybe scrap MMRCA deal as it too late and options are open any sane govt will do that.If you ask my opinion I rather go for Pak fa which is fifth gen and lastly it is not the final product we are getting but only glimpse of it final product is FGFA

 

[sancho]

Australia is buying the F-35, because the US has had 5th Gen flying for 20 years, and they will get their first 4 units in 2018.

Meanwhile India's decision to purchase fewer planes, Russia's failure to even submit a bid to South Korea in time for consideration, and projected delivery to Malaysia being 2028 or later, are not confidence building if you are a potential buyer.

So constant cost increases, technical problems, reduced performance requirements, delayed delivery timeframes and not to forget simulations from the US, UK and Australia that are showing the F35 is far more vulnerable to latest Flanker models than the LM is advertising, are reasons to have confidence?
The fact is, the only reason why NATO countries or their allies are buying F35 is, that it is the only stealth fighter that is available to them! Israel, Japan and the UK had asked to buy the F22 over the F35 and the US rejected that, so when you have no option and are bound to political reasons (see selection in Australia, or Canada that chose F35 before the planned competitions were done) you take the F35, even with higher costs, performance issues and a heck lot of problems.
That however is not the case for India, we have the option to go for Pak Fa / FGFA and offers from the US for F35, but since that fighter doesn't fulfill our technical or industrial requirements, it was rejected and far better choice of teaming up with Russia was chosen. Btw, we are not procuring less fighters, we changed our initial order to keep costs under control from the start, while more fighters in other varients will follow. That's nothing special and the same that the US does with the F35, by developing a single seat version with as much common parts at the begining as possible, because any change in this design stage will increase costs.