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[/quote]Well maybe coz they dont consider India as their country so why stand for elections in a country thats not theirs? if they do stand Indians will rejoice that the Kashmiri separatists group has accepted India as their land and dont want separation...[/quote]

Well we already know that majority of kashmiris don't want to live under us..................but as i said earlier.

Jiski lathi uski bhains.................:coffee:
We ran away with bhains a long time back;)
 
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I know a bunch of conspiracies you cook up ....takes 2 to tango and blame game can start and swirl in any direction...
The source of Kashmir militancy is for all to see, it is quite obvious.

Well maybe coz they dont consider India as their country so why stand for elections in a country thats not theirs? if they do stand Indians will rejoice that the Kashmiri separatists group has accepted India as their land and dont want separation...
When they stand in state elections, they are appealing to very same people they claim to represent. And they can make separation their manifesto, removing any chance an Indian rejoice in case of their victory!
 
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he source of Kashmir militancy is for all to see, it is quite obvious.
Not everything is as the eye sees it...


When they stand in state elections, they are appealing to very same people they claim to represent. And they can make separation their manifesto, removing any chance an Indian rejoice in case of their victory!
Can they? The question will arise why did they join elections of a country they dont believe in? Shouldnt they resist?
 
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Can they? The question will arise why did they join elections of a country they dont believe in? Shouldnt they resist?

Resist what? Proving that they have the support of the people? They are not joining election of a country. You are forgetting the purpose of democracy - they would be representing their people. Under certain rules and laws, but representation nonetheless. A strong manifesto along with support of majority would say a lot more for their cause than what they are doing right now.
 
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Resist what? Proving that they have the support of the people?
They dont need to prove anything to a nation dont consider theirs to begin with!

They are not joining election of a country. You are forgetting the purpose of democracy - they would be representing their people.
You are forgetting they dont even recognize you and vice versa!


Under certain rules and laws, but representation nonetheless. A strong manifesto along with support of majority would say a lot more for their cause than what they are doing right now.
What they are doing now is resisting India...and not agreeing to anything to do with the country and sending a word they want their own hence the term separatist ...did the freedom fighters during the British raj not resist British people and its govt?
 
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You are forgetting they dont even recognize you and vice versa!
And that marks end of the talks, isn't it? What is wrong with opting a bigger platform? The Abdullas have a louder voice than the separatists. If they continue to ignore us and we continue to ignore them, neither of us will move in any direction. Democratic elections are a formal way to represent your people. And this way you get to get things done. They can continue their current movement for all eternity - what has Huriyat Conference achieved till now?

What they are doing now is resisting India...and not agreeing to anything to do with the country and sending a word they want their own hence the term separatist ...did the freedom fighters during the British raj not resist British people and its govt?
The British stopped the Indians from representing their own people. India is asking Hurriyat to do so. The FF during British raj didn't had the option of forming local government, nor had the right to represent themselves in the British parliament. India is willing to give them a bigger stage to raise their voice. Hurriyat is denying the rights given to it, all the while other Kashmiri parties have snatched it and have a bigger representation. Who do you think has more influence in Kashmir - Abdullah or Geelani? Entire India can hear the views of elected representatives, the separatists leader with dozen parties have all their voices muffled out.

This is something that wasn't available to FF pre-independence. A big enough platform to get their voices heard to larger masses. That is what made their struggle so harsh. If the separatist chose to ignore this chance, so be it. Not the loss of India. They can rant and rave all they want. There are Kashmiris - Muftis and Abdullas and more - who would gain more prominence. The armed conflict has more or less died. Once the economy gets back on track, a family with a son employed elsewhere in India is not likely to demand separation.
 
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The British stopped the Indians from representing their own people. India is asking Hurriyat to do so. The FF during British raj didn't had the option of forming local government, nor had the right to represent themselves in the British parliament. India is willing to give them a bigger stage to raise their voice. Hurriyat is denying the rights given to it, all the while other Kashmiri parties have snatched it and have a bigger representation. Who do you think has more influence in Kashmir - Abdullah or Geelani? Entire India can hear the views of elected representatives, the separatists leader with dozen parties have all their voices muffled out.

It was formed for achieving the right of self-determination according to United Nations Security Council Resolution 47. "Hurriyat" in Koshur (as well as in Arabic, Urdu and Persian, from which the word is taken) means "liberty".

"National aspirations must be respected; people may now be dominated and governed only by their own consent. Self determination is not a mere phrase; it is an imperative principle of action. . . . "

Woodrow Wilson with his famous self-determination speech on 11 February 1918 after he announced his Fourteen Points on 8 January 1918.

The right of nations to self-determination (from German: Selbstbestimmungsrecht der Völker), or in short form, the right to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law (jus cogens), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter’s norms.It states that nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or interference which can be traced back to the Atlantic Charter, signed on 14 August 1941, by Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, and Winston Churchill, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom who pledged The Eight Principal points of the Charter. The principle does not state how the decision is to be made, or what the outcome should be, whether it be independence, federation, protection, some form of autonomy or even full assimilation.Neither does it state what the delimitation between nations should be — or even what constitutes a nation. In fact, there are conflicting definitions and legal criteria for determining which groups may legitimately claim the right to self-determination.



The British stopped the Indians from representing their own people. India is asking Hurriyat to do so. The FF during British raj didn't had the option of forming local government, nor had the right to represent themselves in the British parliament. India is willing to give them a bigger stage to raise their voice. Hurriyat is denying the rights given to it, all the while other Kashmiri parties have snatched it and have a bigger representation. Who do you think has more influence in Kashmir - Abdullah or Geelani? Entire India can hear the views of elected representatives, the separatists leader with dozen parties have all their voices muffled out.
How can they accept a right from for a larger stage of a state they dont recognize as theirs and want to break off from?

Lets say I am a Kashmiri and since I dont believe India has any right over Kashmir....I dont believe in having anything to do with India let alone take part in its elections ...why should I when I am not Indian but Kashmiri.....
 
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It was formed for achieving the right of self-determination according to United Nations Security Council Resolution 47. "Hurriyat" in Koshur (as well as in Arabic, Urdu and Persian, from which the word is taken) means "liberty".
Let's not drag the UN resolution in it, I will be forced to point out Pakistan caused the referendum not to happen by not following the resolution.
How can they accept a right from for a larger stage of a state they dont recognize as theirs and want to break off from?

Lets say I am a Kashmiri and since I dont believe India has any right over Kashmir....I dont believe in having anything to do with India let alone take part in its elections ...why should I when I am not Indian but Kashmiri.....
You have something to do with India - you want to separate from it. How do you do that? Either take up arms or take up diplomacy. Arms have proven to be a failure. Next logical choice, try a little diplomacy. Isolating yourself is not going to achieve anything.

And again you are falling back on election of India. We don't elect a country. We elect representatives of people. May be the framework within which the election is happening is Indian, but that is a small compromise to take up the voice of your people at a bigger stage. Right now you are fading in background, with little relevancy. No matter how much the Geelanis and Lones shout, it is not affecting India a bit. Try a different approach, one that will ensure that your voices would be heard by a larger community.
 
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so here are we talking about what modi said when asked why he dropped the indo pak seceratory level talks

few things
1. kashmir is integral part of india and we will not give it to pakistan and no one can force india to the table until india wants it itself for that pakistan wasted its 67 year history and fought 4 wars and had to let go more than half of its population and country.... and chances are they are going to make same mistake again ... ggod luck

2. pakistan as of now is in no postion to control its own people and cities and it dreams to conqure india .... if wishes had wings fools would have flied to moon

3. might is right and the world knows it so they have changed there perception of india but if pakistanies want still to be ther prisnors of there own past ... so be it ... sannu ki

4.all the major power blocks who shape the world in all the expects are with india not pakistan specially with respect to kashmir ... deal with it my pakistani friends

5.last but not the least india is a true working democracy not the cruel joke we see across the border and modi is owr elected prime minister who got the biggest mandate known to man and what he says carries wieght and the world has to listen if pakistanies think abusing and spewing venom of hatered and all kinds of prejudice will change it then they are living in a fools paradise

so my advice is pakistan needs india more than india needs pakistan and same goes with anyone else world knows this facts and more importantlli all so called (friends not masters, all weather friends and brotherlli nations) so its time pakistanies wake up and deal with the reality other wise history is very very cruel

good luck pakistan and have fun
 
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And India has been making us so proud of what exactly? :unsure:

Whats wrong with meeting Kashmiri separatists leaders when Pakistan is all for independent Kashmir! Talk about saas bahu drama :rofl:


India should meed Bloach and TTP leader in Kashmir. There is nothing wrong.
 
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India should meed Bloach and TTP leader in Kashmir. There is nothing wrong.
jani agar samne wale ka mu lal ho to thappar maar ke apna mu lal nahi kiya jata

modi perfectli knows what he is doing and so does indian security establishment and they were never more happy as per current developments

rahi pakistan ki tu bhai wo sunna hai na : maya tere teen naam parsu - parsa-paras ram :)
 
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Modi tried to make good relations.. but in the end it is Pakistan who fuK'd up the thing.
 
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Well maybe coz they dont consider India as their country so why stand for elections in a country thats not theirs? if they do stand Indians will rejoice that the Kashmiri separatists group has accepted India as their land and dont want separation


Applying same logic, Majority Kashmiris take part in election process so they consider Kashmir as the part of the India. So these huriyat guys are minority saperist. They can either migrate else where or be the part of the main stream. Magaj mari kahn hai?
 
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And India has been making us so proud of what exactly? :unsure:

Whats wrong with meeting Kashmiri separatists leaders when Pakistan is all for independent Kashmir! Talk about saas bahu drama :rofl:
Why should Pakistanis meet separatists? Who is this lame duck Hurriyat? Whom do they represent except the Pakistani Establishment? No one cares two hoots for them in Kashmir. They've run their course, and are now a pale shadow of what they were in the early 90s.

Here we have these straw men of the Hurriyat who live in palatial houses and have sent their children abroad for studies funded by the millions sent by the Pakistani Establishment. And they don't pay any taxes as their official income is shown as nil!!

Are these the people who represent the Kashmiris? Not by a light year! They represent not more than 2% of the Kashmiris and yet Pakistan wants to talk with these non entities? Just because that one-leg-in-the-grave SAS Geelani, the self styled boss of the Hurriyat, wants nothing less than Kashmir joining Pakistan?

Why hasn't Pakistan attempted to talk to the representatives of the remainder 80% of the Kashmiri population instead of a dying useless entity like the Hurriyat whom few care a fig for?
 
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