Pak Army isn't capable of fighting and Bajwa's Kashmir deal with India

[Jf Thunder]

I could not answer the question

1. to prevent India from occupying Pakistan
2. of course to rule Pakistan

but the ex-COAS has already said, that our Army isn't strong enough
so only point 2 remains

 

[Jango]

I am attributing the Military's response to a well coordinated and approved plan on which all 3 chief's would have signed on. The political leadership of IK including the entire opposition and the public was on same page that our response should be swift and the message to India was clear that we would not take any BS from India. I am rather countering the propaganda that Bajwa was shivering from taking any action against India.

This was propagated by our very own Mr Ayaz Sadiq and Saad Rafique.

As for the rest, I agree. The sooner we realize keh Kashmir ab hamaray hath say ja chuka hai the better. No politician or anyone will admit to it in public, because the opposition of the time will lap it up and it will be a loose ball for them. The ruling party will for sure lose the next elections as well. So in short, Kashmir issue hamari internal politics ki waja say latka hua hai. Give it another 20 years when the odler generation dies, then we might see a solution when emotions aren't as involved.

 

[Black.Mamba]

At the end of the day, India is going to bring war to your doorstep. They're not going to stop at IOK. Pakistanis need to come out of this delusion that we can have peace with India. So you need to decide whether it's on your terms or theirs. Making excuses without trying anything isn't a strategy.

Thank you for putting it this clearly for dummies. Some of us are living in a fallacy rather zuckerberg's Metaverse.

 

[Mav3rick]

This was propagated by our very own Mr Ayaz Sadiq and Saad Rafique.

As for the rest, I agree. The sooner we realize keh Kashmir ab hamaray hath say ja chuka hai the better. No politician or anyone will admit to it in public, because the opposition of the time will lap it up and it will be a loose ball for them. The ruling party will for sure lose the next elections as well. So in short, Kashmir issue hamari internal politics ki waja say latka hua hai. Give it another 20 years when the odler generation dies, then we might see a solution when emotions aren't as involved.

Bhai, this is what our politicians have been selling to the public for decades. Ab peeche kaise hat jayen? Somebody has to start preparing the public for this reality and the only force that can do this is one which has no political stake or maybe an all parties conference make the declaration where all political parties are also on the same page, but who can bring them to such a point? I think only the establishment can do that.

Faujeet propaganda can't debunk crap lol.

Maybe when you outgrow puberty you may start understanding what the adults have been telling you all along.

 

[Mav3rick]

I don't know much about Fatima Jinnah's campaign except what my dad told me--something like she ran a popular campaign, giving Ayub Khan tough time. I don't know if my family in Karachi supported her or not: We are from a textile industry background for generations, with origin in India, and under Ayub Khan's rule we greatly prospered. I don't know why we would have supported Fatima Jinnah against Ayub Khan. Maybe we did, maybe we didn't. My dad is gone to ask him that question now. But I also think Ayub Khan was an honest, hard-working person who did much good for Pakistan. I'd even say that today's Pakistan is even standing because of much of what he had accomplished. Never forget that by 1958, Pakistan was in a chaos. Never forget the number of Prime Ministers who, since the death of Liaqat Ali Khan, were inducted and removed.

But, yes, had Fatima Jinnah won in 1964, there wouldn't be a 1971. I don't particularly shed tears on the formation of Bangladesh. I think it was inevitable but not in 1971, starting with there is no 'B' in Pakistan. But I wish it was a peaceful divorce. I wish BD well.

About Bhutto despite all his faults--and there are many--religious extremism was not his introduction. The guy was a whiskey-drinking, Western-looking, wanna-be Socialist blah, blah. A tyrant, feudal hypocrite. But still towered above the pigmies that followed him especially with his foreign policy achievements before and after 1971. Even his worst critics--who are in the Noon League for obvious reasons--acknowledge him now. That he caved into to a few acts of 'Islamism' in his rule was under intense pressure from the religious lobbies. Otherwise, Bhutto was fine fooling people with his 'Socialism' to keep getting power. Not only he was going to be a clear winner in 1977, rigging or not, but in the 1979 municipal elections, despite Zia killing him, his political party won handsomely in Pakistan.

Many were supporting Fatima Jinnah not simply because she was the better and a civilian candidate but also because she was the heir of Jinnah (political).

As for your comment on Ayub Khan and his governance, the same is true for all leaders; everybody has credits to his/her name and then there are fault lines too. Ayub gave us sensibility, Bhutto gave us the N-Bomb, Zia gave us protection (from Soviet Union threat) etc.

I also totally agree on your point about Bangladesh, it was an eventuality that could have been postponed but not altogether avoided. A country half this side of a powerful enemy and half that side was just never going to work; plus we had nothing in common except religion which has been unable to bind the Muslims of South East Asia.

 

[ghazi52]

Kaptan ...

 

[PakFactor]

This was propagated by our very own Mr Ayaz Sadiq and Saad Rafique.

As for the rest, I agree. The sooner we realize keh Kashmir ab hamaray hath say ja chuka hai the better. No politician or anyone will admit to it in public, because the opposition of the time will lap it up and it will be a loose ball for them. The ruling party will for sure lose the next elections as well. So in short, Kashmir issue hamari internal politics ki waja say latka hua hai. Give it another 20 years when the odler generation dies, then we might see a solution when emotions aren't as involved.

Since Kargil Conflict, Pakistanis in the West have been saying that Kashmir is a lost cause. Regardless of Nawaz's politics, the Army also backed down from outside threats. Once you are in that position, you've lost.

 

[Battlion25]

It is actully opposite.. I don't think India would even fight much if Pakistan was to march in one day.. Have you seen these people and the conditions they are in.. Indians aren't created for wars it is as simple as that

 

[PakFactor]

It is actully opposite.. I don't think India would even fight much if Pakistan was to march in one day.. Have you seen these people and the conditions they are in.. Indians aren't created for wars it is as simple as that

Indians will fight, and with an infusion of BJP & RSS propaganda, they are encouraged to strike Pakistan. But let's not forget that this conflict will happen down the road, and the West will back India with arms as it did in Ukraine.

I say be cautious and don't let old tales give you a false sense of security. The Jews we've read were not willing to fight when God told them, and they were punished, but after that, they fought. Returning to World War II's end, they fought against the Germans joining the British Army & Co. and fought multiple times against the Arabs after that.

He can remove the veil of fear in their hearts when God wants.

 

[Trango Towers]

but the ex-COAS has already said, that our Army isn't strong enough
so only point 2 remains

Ex COAS also bent over for bilawal. So what does that make him

 

[Jf Thunder]

Ex COAS also bent over for bilawal. So what does that make him

opportunist

 

[Goenitz]

funniest

افسوس کہ یوتھیے ایک سال سے ان ٹینکوں کے آگے لیٹنے کو تیار تھے جن میں تیل ہی نہیں۔​

 

[RescueRanger]

Kaptan ...

If only Pakistanis put as much effort into positive pursuits as they poured into this photoshop we would be a stable nation by now.

 

[Jango]

Bhai, this is what our politicians have been selling to the public for decades. Ab peeche kaise hat jayen? Somebody has to start preparing the public for this reality and the only force that can do this is one which has no political stake or maybe an all parties conference make the declaration where all political parties are also on the same page, but who can bring them to such a point? I think only the establishment can do that.

Establishment also has a stake and is also benefitting from selling this manjan, so don't think that would work either.

As I said, we need to wait a decade or so, when the generation of those years which actually fought for Kashmir or migrated from there will die and the new generation will not have as much affinity to it.

 

[Tamerlane]

It's rubbish to say that we've lost Kashmir forever.

The world changes drastically with time. Only in the last hundred years, since WW1, the map of the world has changed completely. To assume that things will remain like they are now is an example of myopic vision.

Today the world teeters on the verge of WW3. Maintaining the current status quo in the world order is not viable. There is a changeover happening with power moving from Europe/North America to Eurasia. Israel is not going to stay in place perpetually attacking the Muslim world of 2 billion. Maps of the future will be different from now.

Unfortunately the duffer generals of Pakistan can't think beyond their next DHA plot. When, not if, there is another world war, then everyone will have to jump in to settle their local disputes.

Pakistan and India WILL have a major war sooner or later, whether anyone like it or not. We have to have plans in place to take Kashmir when it happens.