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PAF's possible answer to MRCA

One thing I learned the hard way.
Inshallah for a Pakistani is used in the absolute wrong sense... when a Pakistani says inshallah he doesn't mean "if god wills it".. and Ill try my best as well..
He uses it when he means to say it'll happen if god wills it... I wont do a darn thing about it. :lol:..
(nothing towards the person who posted Inshallah, just a general observation.. not related to the JF-17's acquisition.).

Too good.. The only thing is that this quality is present across the subcontinent irrespective of religion, caste and creed. In some cases, Inshalla gets replaced by Bagwan kare, but the sentiment stays ;)
 
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Do you know how many are they(read PAC) churning out right now??? the production capacity cannot be increased to almost double in a whisker...it will take some time, no????

Don't want to derail the thread but aren't you assuming that HAL and PAC have similar production capability???

Fair point, but thats what is also expected. The capacity PAC has today is about 12-15 planes an year, which may go up to 20-22 in next 2 years or so. Or atleast thats what I got from the posts in this thread
 
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Fair point, but thats what is also expected. The capacity PAC has today is about 12-15 planes an year, which may go up to 20-22 in next 2 years or so. Or atleast thats what I got from the posts in this thread

Yes and that is exactly my point...it will take time to increase the production capacity to 20-22....So 150 by 2015 and that too a significant number of JF-17 block II is not as easy task as people are claiming here....
 
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the production capicity is being increased.
we have tree production lines at PAC, currently one is dediceted to JFT. the second was busy with Mirages and F-7PG and third one for regular refits and over hauls.
now with the JFT gradually growing in number and a fourth production line being set up, JFT will be done in two parallel production line.
after 2013~2014 we may even see a third line that is currently under mirages/F-7PG given to JFT with all the overhauls moved to one single line as the load and numbers of mirages and older F-7 will start to decrease.

Some good points but sir please keep in mind if adding production lines is so easy then HAL would have added more lines just to churn out more and more MKI's especially when IAF is operating below her santioned squadron force, no??? A country whose economy is growing at about 9% and projected to grow at same pace for decades can certainly find out money for creating "n" number of production lines, no???However that is not the case...The increase is there but is gradual....Please note that there are host of other complexities that are involved and talking about all of them is not feasible here...However on a very high level there is a very sensitive relation between demand and supply which needs to be very carefully examined otherwise it leads to lot of wastage, something that poor south asian countries cannot afford especially Pakistan with economy in such a bad shape....Just to give you a hint, one has to put in lot of money to set up another production line and one has to ensure they have enough orders in hand to keep this additional production line working for considerable amount of time(years) to cover up for the amount invested...My request please ponder on those lines as well.....

It is almost end of 2010. PAC have another 5 years to completed the order(though i am not sure if order has even been put). As of now PAC is producing around 10-12 fighters a year....It will take a couple of years to incresae the capacity to 20-22...So if we do some simple maths with being a little optimistic

12 * 2 = 24
22 * 3 = 66

that brings the total to 90. So starting from now with optimistic targets by 2015 PAC can produce an additional 90 JF17's....which makes them 60 short of the number we are talking about...Now add the numbers that you already have and see how much work needs to be done....Please note that here we are assuming that eveything related to avionics package for block II will go smooth...

Now i would appreciate if you help point out flaws in my analysis and suggest how 150 is achievable and that too with ease!!!....

So let me repeat again what i have said on previous posts...reaching a number of 150 by 2015 is not as easy as members are making it to be...Is it not at all feasible, heck no way, is it very difficult, YES absolutely...

150 mark is not a problem, the thing is that will be see upgrades for every subsequent block as planned. for block II, which might well be just one year away there are no real upgrades being made public as yet. based on my talk with some frineds at PAC it may only see mid air refueling probes as a development alongside. the KJ-10 is reported to be on board already..
Good luck with that...Though avionics package has not been closed yet i believe concrete news will come out soon...but keep in ming closing on avionics package is one thing but churning out fighters with the package is another dimension...Anyways my best wishes on that....


i hope to see some real steps forward in block III with chines engine and AESA radars developing fast.
better engine might also yeild in more hard points that will be a minor structural change and will require testing..regards!
I would say let's get the block II running first....AESA radar on a fighter is a very complex engineering and apart from Americans no one has cracked it yet to a level that one can feel comfortable about it....Here you are talking about structural changes as well...No matter all this is achievable but i am sure you will agree all of these are time consuming as well as unpredictable jobs
 
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Yes and that is exactly my point...it will take time to increase the production capacity to 20-22....So 150 by 2015 and that too a significant number of JF-17 block II is not as easy task as people are claiming here....

Not possible unless China decides to dedicate some of its capacity towards assembling the planes as well.
 
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Not possible unless China decides to dedicate some of its capacity towards assembling the planes as well.

Production for Block I started in 2007, block II is expected before 2015!
8 years is long enough to make Block II.
 
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PAF and GOP have only ordered 50 planes to date 8 prototypes and 42 mk1 thunders. China gave a $650m soft loan to help PAF buy these ..

No other oderers have been made too date.

OR HAVE I MISSED this report of another order

I thought PAF was awaiting new radar & avionics and missles from France for mk2

Please provide a god damn link before you go trolling about so called soft loans. :hitwall:

I'm surprised you've lasted this long on this forum.
 
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Production for Block I started in 2007, block II is expected before 2015!
8 years is long enough to make Block II.
No doubt about it...However we are talking about numbers here....I would advice to please skim through couple of pages and then share your thoughts...

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

Not possible unless China decides to dedicate some of its capacity towards assembling the planes as well.

I agree...:agree:
 
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No doubt about it...However we are talking about numbers here....I would advice to please skim through couple of pages and then share your thoughts...

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------



I agree...:agree:

As of now only 1 factory in Pakistan produces jf-17s. Another factory, previously used for Mirages will be used to make jf-17s, nearly doubling the output, numbers should not be a problem.
 
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As of now only 1 factory in Pakistan produces jf-17s. Another factory, previously used for Mirages will be used to make jf-17s, nearly doubling the output, numbers should not be a problem.

Good point...May be you are right but can you throw some details on when this factory will shift to producing JF-17(or has that already been done) and also what is the current order that PAF has put on right now??? Based on my analysis and looking at the current average of churning out 10-12 JF-17 a year it is not believable(atleast from an outsider POV) that production will jump suddenly to 20-22....So i would appreciate if you cna share more details....
 
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Good point...May be you are right but can you throw some details on when this factory will shift to producing JF-17(or has that already been done) and also what is the current order that PAF has put on right now??? Based on my analysis and looking at the current average of churning out 10-12 JF-17 a year it is not believable(atleast from an outsider POV) that production will jump suddenly to 20-22....So i would appreciate if you cna share more details....
Farnborough 2010 - Pakistan increases autonomy in production of JF-17 Thunder aircraft

PAF Inducts First Squadron of JF-17 Thunder Jet

Pakistan starts mass production of JF-17 fighters | India Defence

Pakistan starts mass production of JF-17 fighters - national TV | World | RIA Novosti

:agree:
 
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But the current production capacity that Taimikhan also confirmed is about 10-12 planes an year. Even if doubled tomorrow, still reaching 150 planes iin next 5 years is a tough ask. And that is the discussion

China has a fully operational production line too.

Ours are not yet at full production capacity. By 2012 58% of the airframe would be produced in Pakistan, and after 2012 the percentage will increase further.

So if orders are there and can't be fulfilled by one production line, then another one can be utilized in China, plus the production plants have been made big enough to have multiple production lines. As time passes by, we are gonna have more skilled and trained labor, thus we can easily produce more if required.
 
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China has a fully operational production line too.

Ours are not yet at full production capacity. By 2012 58% of the airframe would be produced in Pakistan, and after 2012 the percentage will increase further.

So if orders are there and can't be fulfilled by one production line, then another one can be utilized in China, plus the production plants have been made big enough to have multiple production lines. As time passes by, we are gonna have more skilled and trained labor, thus we can easily produce more if required.

That exactly was my point if you go back a few posts. Given the current capacity of 10-12 per year and the time it takes to ramp up this capacity, to hit 150 planes by 2015, China will need to pitch in with some production lines for assembly as well..
 
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