PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[anoopsaxena76]

a. Ok so the technology roadmap is not visible. But stuff like timeframe (by when do you want all those goodies in place), development partners (have you floated requests to?) ...MOVEMENT some indications of that. Rememeber we are talking about a flying platform and some fairly conventional tech.

Let me give you an example. Which century are we in? In the previous century, some 25 years back, India took Russia's help in a concept called "directional drilling". I wouldn't go into the details of this because I may be forced to remove this content and apologise.
No one got a wind of it.

India caught everyone by surprise on May 11, 1998 with the Pokhran test. Remember we are talking about a nuclear detonation and we managed to do it.

India caught everyone by surprise in 1974 with the first Pokhran test.

Please note, I am not saying that they are doing something. I am saying do not believe that they are not doing something either.

b.I'm not limiting myself to development programs even if they are looking at buying stuff as a solution that's an Ok strategy. The point is this. If JF 17 is their mainline fighter (excluding F 16 higher blocks which are now coming in in limted nos.), & if that can take on LCA with difficulty, not up to the mark with MMRCA & not exactly ahem ahem suited for taking on SU 30 today or Pak Fa in future, what are the additional steps that the PAF taking to bridge current and tech capability gaps?

I do not know why are we so chest thumping about LCA. Our LCA right now, at this point in time, is not field worthy. Period. So even my kitchen knife is a more potent weapon and can inflict more damage than the LCA.

MMRCA...What if we get F-16? How will their F-16 be any lesser than ours. Wouldn't they press for upgrades? US isn't exactly Russia that would deny China some key Sukhoi features because it had guaranteed that to India.

F-18 would be comparable with F-16, I would think.

Atleast Pakistan has F-16's on hand. We do not have MMRCA right now in our hands.

And finally Su-30. That is where I make my point that if and when Pakistan feels it is losing conventional war edge, it will press the nuclear button. Then we can all make merry in Hell / Heaven with the Pakistani friends / foes singing "Ooooooooo Mehboobaa mehboobaa...". Jokes aside, that is why Pakistan has not signed on no first use policy.... And frankly no first use policy is BS... why make nuclear bombs if you are going to sign a no first use policy?

 

[SBD-3]

c. Su 30...ahem

d. Pak Fa...ahem ahem

 

[Guynextdoor]

a. Searched for the F 16 IN Brochure but LM seems to have taken it off. So

F-16IN Given Super Powers

F-16 gets super cruise capability - Express India

What I can make out is that this is going to be the best F 16 ever, for SURE better than UAE's and Israels. My comparison with Pak's F 16 therefore stands

b. Why is this discussion going tangential? My question was a simple one, if in terms of overall capability MMRCA + Su 30 goes ahead of JF 17, from what I can see on GROUND, PAF's capability levels in terms of their frontline aircraft seems to be falling, so what are the plans/steps taken to counter? Taimi's argument is that lots of stuff happens behind scene and that even tech upgrades are never released before hand. Well, it is easy to give cover of national security over these things...but to the extent that Taimi indicates...dunno...it's a strange way of working but ok, i'll take that argument

Chest Thumping or not, LCA IS capable of taking on JF 17. Period. So I can work my comparisons upwards from there. N for people who think that JF 17 can match up to Euro, please keep in mind that apart from all the other goodies EF also comes with an awesome g Suit that lets pilots fly up to 9Gs sustained. So it's not just about the AESA & Multirole capabilities etc., EF also goes a long way towards letting the pilot get the most out of the jet (Can play big spoiler with your man behind the stick assumptions which I think is exaggerated anyways)

 

[Guynextdoor]

Kids ...

 

[Guynextdoor]

Let me give you an example. Which century are we in? In the previous century, some 25 years back, India took Russia's help in a concept called "directional drilling". I wouldn't go into the details of this because I may be forced to remove this content and apologise.
No one got a wind of it.

India caught everyone by surprise on May 11, 1998 with the Pokhran test. Remember we are talking about a nuclear detonation and we managed to do it.

India caught everyone by surprise in 1974 with the first Pokhran test.

Please note, I am not saying that they are doing something. I am saying do not believe that they are not doing something either.



I do not know why are we so chest thumping about LCA. Our LCA right now, at this point in time, is not field worthy. Period. So even my kitchen knife is a more potent weapon and can inflict more damage than the LCA.
MMRCA...What if we get F-16? How will their F-16 be any lesser than ours. Wouldn't they press for upgrades? US isn't exactly Russia that would deny China some key Sukhoi features because it had guaranteed that to India.

F-18 would be comparable with F-16, I would think.

Atleast Pakistan has F-16's on hand. We do not have MMRCA right now in our hands.

And finally Su-30. That is where I make my point that if and when Pakistan feels it is losing conventional war edge, it will press the nuclear button. Then we can all make merry in Hell / Heaven with the Pakistani friends / foes singing "Ooooooooo Mehboobaa mehboobaa...". Jokes aside, that is why Pakistan has not signed on no first use policy.... And frankly no first use policy is BS... why make nuclear bombs if you are going to sign a no first use policy?

Ehhh dude...sorry but can't make up my mind on how to answer some of your points...you may have some reading up to do.

 

[Dazzler]

Why is it that you folks derail many threads? Is it on purpose or ambition or it just happens on this forum like instinctive maybe? Thread topic is PAF'S answer to MMRCA, not IAF'S ANSWER to F-16 blk 52 !!

 

[Guynextdoor]

Why is it that you folks derail many threads? Is it on purpose or ambition or it just happens on this forum like instinctive maybe? Thread topic is PAF'S answer to MMRCA, not IAF'S ANSWER to F-16 blk 52 !!

It's partly instinctive....

 

[SomeGuy]

the J10B = F16 block 60? mmm we dont know the features of the J10B yet such as the type of AESA radar so cant compare it to F16 block 60 one.

The F16 block 60 new features include: Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFTs); AN/APG-80 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, GE F110-132A engine with 32,000 pounds (143 kN) of thrust with FADEC controls; electronic warfare suite and infra-red searching (IRST); updated all-color glass cockpit; and a helmet-mounted cueing system.

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

The 01/1031 prototype of the new J-10B was unveiled in March 2009, 3 months after its maiden flight in December 2008. This much improved variant features a DSI/bump engine inlet which not only cuts weight but also reduces RCS, after a similar design was first tested onboard FC-1/JF-17. The aircraft also features a J-11B style IRST/LR and a wide-angle holographic HUD. IRST enables passive detection of enemy aircraft, making J-10B more stealthy in combat. Its nose appears flatter too, similar to that of American F-16, and fire-control radar is thought to be an X-band AESA developed by the 607 Institute, the first of such type ever being developed for a Chinese fighter aircraft, giving J-10B a stronger multi-target engagement and ECCM capability. Two large ECM pods are attached under the wings. The tip of vertical tailfin was redesigned as well, featuring a large fairing containing communication and ECM antennas, which resembles that of French Mirage 2000. A rear facing MAWS sensor can be seen underneath the parachute boom. A similar system was tested onboard FC-1/JF-17. RAM coating is also expected in certain areas such as engine inlet and wing leading edges to reduce RCS. The aircraft may be fitted with CFTs in the future to further extend its range. All these improvements suggest that J-10B is equipped with a new generation of integrated electronic system, ranging from radar to EW system. The aircraft thus serves likely as a testbed for various advanced avionics onboard the 4th generation J-20 (see below). Its mission may be changed from air-superiority to multi-purpose, such as AG or EW. In addition, the aircarft is expected to be powered eventually by an indigenous WS-10A turbofan. Overall J-10B is thought to be comparable to American F-16E/Block 60. The latest image indicated that the 03 prototype has flown, which has the pitot tube rumoved from the nose tip.

 

[amit27]

j10b no way compares to F16 block 60 for one thing the AESA radar is much more advanced everyone knows American avionics is the best.

 

[SomeGuy]

j10b no way compares to F16 block 60 for one thing the AESA radar is much more advanced everyone knows American avionics is the best.

J-10B would definitely give PAF a fighter with capabilities comparable to F-16E Block 60.

J-10B will have its own AESA radar, but even if it has a shorter range than AN/APG-80, well that's what AWACS are for.

 

[zagahaga]

Yup yup j10b in my impression is excellent but one thing I want to ask of..... In the official report it says PAF would test FC20 in 2010 are we testing them

 

[anoopsaxena76]

a. Searched for the F 16 IN Brochure but LM seems to have taken it off. So

F-16IN Given Super Powers

F-16 gets super cruise capability - Express India

What I can make out is that this is going to be the best F 16 ever, for SURE better than UAE's and Israels. My comparison with Pak's F 16 therefore stands

Let's talk facts. Let's not make assumptions. Give me a proof that the "future" F-16 Indian version will be "better" than the F-16's that Pakistan will have at that point in time.

Chest Thumping or not, LCA IS capable of taking on JF 17. Period. So I can work my comparisons upwards from there.

And how do you say LCA is capable of taking on JF17? Please give me facts and not your assumptions.

Regards,
Anoop.

 

[anoopsaxena76]

Ehhh dude...sorry but can't make up my mind on how to answer some of your points...you may have some reading up to do.

Please enlighten me. I am all for reading.

Regards,
Anoop.

 

[SBD-3]

j10b no way compares to F16 block 60 for one thing the AESA radar is much more advanced everyone knows American avionics is the best.

Dil ke khush rakhne ko Ghalib ye khyal achha hai. ...

 

[anoopsaxena76]

Why is it that you folks derail many threads? Is it on purpose or ambition or it just happens on this forum like instinctive maybe? Thread topic is PAF'S answer to MMRCA, not IAF'S ANSWER to F-16 blk 52 !!

I do not think I derailed the thread. I am still very much discussing with respect to Pakistan's current capabilities. Please do explain how did I derail the thread.

Regards,
Anoop