PAF victories against Israeli Air Force, kept secret for 25 years - Air Commodore (r) Khalid Chishti

[El Sidd]

Why would that ratio be unsustainable? Esp when Israel still have a technological, moral, and training edge over all its neighbors?

Israel maintained this edge even when Egypt had a fairly modern and large air force for its time. Today the Gap is much larger with the IAF having the latest F16I and now F35I

It's also a matter that no airforce nearby can conjure up 27.5 aircraft in a coordinated fashion.

F35 needs to prove itself before it can come in the same sentence as F16.

 

[Raider 21]

3 Is a possible option, and even then it's a high number.
In all of its wars since 1948, Israel only lost 25-26 jets in dogfights and shot down 687 enemy jets in dogfights. That's 27.5:1 ratio.

11 Would account for 44% of all Israeli aerial losses, 3 would account for 12%.
12% is doubtable, let alone 44%.

Not denying any achievements for the IDF/AF. They are a very capable air force in my understanding and their selection process & training pays off for it. The country exists because of them, just as how similarly it has been for Pakistan through history.

Cheers !!!

 

[KaiserX]

It's also a matter that no airforce nearby can conjure up 27.5 aircraft in a coordinated fashion.

F35 needs to prove itself before it can come in the same sentence as F16.

Why is that so? you make it seem as if the IAF took out all those jets in air to air combat. Instead they took the initiative, did premptive strikes, and destroyed 90% of Egypts, syrias, jordans air force on the ground before their planes even took off.

With surprise and intelligence such ratios are achievable.

 

[El Sidd]

Why is that so? you make it seem as if the IAF took out all those jets in air to air combat. Instead they took the initiative, did premptive strikes, and destroyed 90% of Egypts, syrias, jordans air force on the ground before their planes even took off.

With surprise and intelligence such ratios are achievable.

Now this is only possible if one has a technical edge and not just tactical edge.

You cannot have both sides of the argument.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Why is that so? you make it seem as if the IAF took out all those jets in air to air combat. Instead they took the initiative, did premptive strikes, and destroyed 90% of Egypts, syrias, jordans air force on the ground before their planes even took off.

With surprise and intelligence such ratios are achievable.

All of those 687 Arab jets were taken out in air to air combat, there are hundreds more taken out on the ground and by air defenses.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

All of those 687 Arab jets were taken out in air to air combat

source?

 

[Beny Karachun]

The point is: Israel cannot sustain this ratio and that is a bad sign no matter how you like to divide it.

What do you mean Israel can't sustain such a ratio? This ratio has been the result of 72 years of conflict already.

source?

Source is in Hebrew

אתר חיל-האוויר

Post–World War II air-to-air combat losses - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can add up the numbers here, add 114 Arab jets that were shot down in between the wars, and divide by the Israeli jets that got shot down. You'll end up with the same result.

 

[Beny Karachun]

The point is: Israel cannot sustain this ratio and that is a bad sign no matter how you like to divide it.

Why can't Israel sustain this ratio? Israeli air force is stronger than ever

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Most of those air to air kills happened up until the end of 1973 war, in that era we had no advantage over the Arabs except in our tactics and strategy, they had us numerically and technologically. So you're wrong there.

I was under the impression that Arab SAMs were the far greater threat to Israeli aircraft whereas your jets always had a substantial edge over their jets. Didn't the SAMs wreck you during the YK War?

 

[hussain0216]

All of those 687 Arab jets were taken out in air to air combat, there are hundreds more taken out on the ground and by air defenses.

But PAF pilots hammered Israeli's, right!

 

[Progressive1]

israel is not our enemy.

 

[Beny Karachun]

I was under the impression that Arab SAMs were the far greater threat to Israeli aircraft whereas your jets always had a substantial edge over their jets. Didn't the SAMs wreck you during the YK War?

You're right, SAMs were a far greater threat to Israeli pilots, than enemy pilots. Especially before tactics to counter SAMs were created. That was broken in 1982 though, Israeli SEAD tactics, drones, electronic warfare absolutely devastated the lastest Russian SAMs in Operation Mole Cricket 19, without any casualties.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

What do you mean Israel can't sustain such a ratio?

Any country could sustain that ratio providing the leading edge technology of United States of America was at your service. It is important to take note that the chance of defeating Israel is in equal measuree to defeating Idaho, Ilinois or Alaska. Israel is when it comes to military technology, military assets, military reserves the 51st state of USA.

Want to have a war with Israel? Go fight USA first. If you can defeat America then you can by all means go after Israel.

israel is not our enemy.

Absolutely true. The ruling elites in Israel and Pakistan have a understanding mediated by USA. Otherwise America would have been let loose on Pakistan nukes long time ago. Thus Tel Aviv and Islamabad observe a studied indifferance to each other. Sooner or later of course this will come out but right now there are too many crazed dogs to face such realities.

UAE did. Saudia Arabia already has behind the scenes. Pakistan will as in few decades.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Any country could sustain that ratio providing the leading edge technology of United States of America was at your service. It is important to take note that the chance of defeating Israel is in equal measuree to defeating Idaho, Ilinois or Alaska. Israel is when it comes to military technology, military assets, military reserves the 51st state of USA.

Want to have a war with Israel? Go fight USA first. If you can defeat America then you can by all means go after Israel.

Nice way to cope.

Israel was only supplied by the US in the 70s, and even that with limited amount of weaponry, maybe a tenth of what the Arabs received from the USSR. The Arabs had the full support of the USSR, since our very first war in 1948.

Besides, even if your theory is true, Israel can still sustain this ratio, because it still has the support of the US.

 

[S Hussain]

Israel is an enemy state to Pakistan. They have always tried to undermine our security.