PAF To Participate in PAS With Block-3

[MastanKhan]

I was wondering, @MastanKhan , @araz , @GriffinsRule , @Stealth , all of you have shower concerns regarding bad marketing of Thunders.
NOW...

Let’s keep Pakistan And PAF aside. Come to CATIC/AVIC/CAC/SAC or plainly CHINA. How would you rate their marketing history since Chinese 2nd Gen planes (F-7) uptil now Especially J-10 and J-31 as well as L-15. ?

There is a belief, “Bacha apne baron se seekhta hai”, which i find quite accurate in many cases, implying here, AVIC will always be a Guru to PAC and vice versa, but China is old in defence manufacturing & Marketing compared to us. What say you guys?


I still have a wish to see the J-10 if we fail to acquire more F-16s.

When you bought the mig21 or F7—you were telling the world that your affiliations are with the east or the west.

you did not have too many options.

paf just got carried away with the JF17—it did not do its homework—-the aircraft had no engine and no capable ew package either in its initial stages

a project that lacked some vision but overall not a bad project.

the aircraft got marketed too soon.

the aircraft was to be for pakistan so there was no sense to market it.

Once the paf got the plane, the marketing would gave started by default. No reason for a sales pitch.

avic maybe the guru but Paf has a better know how of the weapons and what it needs ti do.

 

[StormBreaker]

When you bought the mig21 or F7—you were telling the world that your affiliations are with the east or the west.

you did not have too many options.

paf just got carried away with the JF17—it did not do its homework—-the aircraft had no engine and no capable ew package either in its initial stages

a project that lacked some vision but overall not a bad project.

the aircraft got marketed too soon.

the aircraft was to be for pakistan so there was no sense to market it.

Once the paf got the plane, the marketing would gave started by default. No reason for a sales pitch.

avic maybe the guru but Paf has a better know how of the weapons and what it needs ti do.

Sir, you completely missed my question, how is China at marketing current Chinese 3rd Gen planes? Nothing much to offer except for J-10 and J-31. I would love to hear your take

 

[MastanKhan]

I realized i did.

at that time they did not have to market anything. They had a captive audience and buyer desperate to buy.

with the onset of 4th gen aircraft, the sale became more restrictive and out of reach for many countries.

russia advertised “ in your face “ kind of brutal force and chinese git busy in advancing their 4 th gen technology and stayed away from marketing their aircraft openly.

the onset of american 5th gen has created a lots of confusion amongst friend and foe—-what is available and to whom and with what restrictions.

that is india’s conundrum—-get american F21 or F35 and be forever under the control of the US

china is at a critical stage of developing their modern weapons and aircraft and only few selected and elected buyers will get them because china will be selling it top tier that uses fir itself to its friendly nations.

not like the usa which can sell a 2nd or 3rd tiered F35 and the buyer will still be happy and that also with 3rd tiered radar and 3rd tiered missiles.

 

[StormBreaker]

@MastanKhan @StormBreaker


Perhaps, it is not about the platform but more overall security architecture which the US has dominated post 1992.

Whence a State buys a platform from any one country it becomes interlinked with its regional and global policies/politics.

Take the example of Rafael... and the French political support for Ganguz... what do you see?

JF17 still holds the potential to become MiG21 of 21st century... Gripen is too expensive and surprisingly a Tejas costs you about the same... EXPENSIVE!!! and both have US engines and other goodies from US block...


Iran needs at least 200+ new fighters... Russian? Chinese?

Iraq another one... despite their F16.

Azeris are still game... Malaysia is still game.. and yes, Sri Lanka is still game... and then there are other Stans... and Nigeria needs to retire its entire Mig21 fleet... Eygpt difficult for many reasons..

Morocco is long shot given their history and the camp they are in... so is South America...

The goal should be to sell 1 JF for each one PAF needs...

We didn't have and still don't ... an effective Foreign Policy... selling weapons is the job of the political entities...

Hmm, ok.

Potential customers :
- Central Asia (Azerbaijan especially)
- Malaysia
- Sri Lanka
- Nigeria
- Egypt (confused itself)
- Iran (hope not)

So, what is your take, what steps will Iran take from Post 2020, when they will be free from Sanctions most probably ? Will they show interest in Thunder? If yes, what will be our response ? Personally, I wouldn’t want to give anything to them, due to them supporting RAW continuously and playing with my motherland, supporting our enemy, and most importantly, nonethics with regards to sale agreement. They will reverse engineer to produce rip-offs like saegah.

As for your statement, Mig-21 of 21st century, you are implying, our marketing as compared to our sale potential has a huge infact very huge difference ? i.e if we play rightly, we can get at least 400 total flying in other countries by 2030 ?

 

[StormBreaker]

We need to build at least 500 JFs ... simple reason for that is we need to finance and build not only the ecosystem for FGF but lay the foundations of a decent aviation industry.

Regarding, Iran... I read you... concerns are valid... however, let me rephrase it?

What is more financially suitable for PAC?

a- Selling JFs to anyone and then build infrastructure in parallel to move on to newer blocks and FGF

Or

b- Let Russians sell MiG35 or Chiense J10A/B?

If the GCC comes in heavy as partner with PAC and can utilise JFs as bulk fighter and using their heavies accordingly... this will be a better financial arrangement... however, sad as it is, GCC won't do this... for their own reasons...

Imagine the entire GCC using JFs and the future block being built by themselves... Win-Win...

So, which option is better?

Ohh reminds me
The usual game, show interest in SU35 just to try to get something else from somewhere. We can play similar game, buy Thunders or we will sale to Iran. But...
Will iran even show interest? They will conduct exercises with their all-time hubby india, Share various technicalities, and God knows only if iran REALLY is a non-nuke state... Either way, they will buy things, not from us? Then from somewhere else and even better. Do they have money to spend?

 

[mingle]

Any pic of Blk 3 so far?? How babay looks like?

 

[aliyusuf]

Any pic of Blk 3 so far?? How babay looks like?

No difference externally to Blk-II, I suspect, except for the different serial number series starting from 20-301.

 

[Hassan Guy]

No difference externally to Blk-II, I suspect, except for the different serial number series starting from 20-301.

I would say if you looked closely all post blk 2 variants, B and upcoming Blk3, are actually lookin like the aircraft is jumping a gen, just a lookin at the airframe you'll see they've up'd the build quality of the damn thing
JF-17 blk1:

Jf-17B:

The J-10 also saw a similar jump
J-10A:

J-10C

 

[Ultima Thule]

I would say if you looked closely all post blk 2 variants, B and upcoming Blk3, are actually lookin like the aircraft is jumping a gen, just a lookin at the airframe you'll see they've up'd the build quality of the damn thing
JF-17 blk1:
View attachment 591571
Jf-17B:
View attachment 591573
The J-10 also saw a similar jump
J-10A:
View attachment 591569
J-10C
View attachment 591570

No bro there is not much difference between Block 1 and 2, and he is talking block 1 and 2 not JF-17B
main difference between block 1 and 2 is avionics upgrades and main structural difference between Block 1 and 2 are block 2 have a in flight refueling probe

 

[Thorough Pro]

People criticizing JF-17 and advocating the purchase of F-16 or J-10 are forgetting the economic condition of Pakistan. 250 JF17 would always be superior to 18 F-16's or 36 J-10's

F-16's replacement would be a 5th gen plane whether we make it ourselves with the help of China, or customize what China has to offer

 

[Ultima Thule]

People criticizing JF-17 and advocating the purchase of F-16 or J-10 are forgetting the economic condition of Pakistan. 250 JF17 would always be superior to 18 F-16's or 36 J-10's

F-16's replacement would be a 5th gen plane whether we make it ourselves with the help of China, or customize what China has to offer

we are talking about to get J-10 when our economy will on the boom within 5-10 year bro

 

[Thorough Pro]

People are criticizing JF-17 project that had we gone for J10's we would have inducted AESA capable jets two years "ago". as far as my knowledge of the language goes, "Ago" happens in the past not 10 years in future

we are talking about to get J-10 when our economy will on the boom within 5-10 year bro

 

[Ultima Thule]

People are criticizing JF-17 project that had we gone for J10's we would have inducted AESA capable jets two years "ago". as far as my knowledge of the language goes, "Ago" happens in the past not 10 years in future

We need to replace our vintage Mirages 120 of them, and let not put all eggs in one basket (JF-17)

 

[GriffinsRule]

we are talking about to get J-10 when our economy will on the boom within 5-10 year bro

That is yet to happen. In that time, all these loan we had to take because of the last two governments plundering our nation will be coming due too. Not counting the chickens before they hatch.

 

[Ultima Thule]

That is yet to happen. In that time, all these loan we had to take because of the last two governments plundering our nation will be coming due too. Not counting the chickens before they hatch.

Be positive bro we will be in better condition then, from now, InshaAllah