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PAF To Participate in PAS With Block-3

This is the only variable of the equation that is unknown to all of us now. I don’t see why FC-31 doesn’t have a good potential given the powerplant, armaments, avionics are all chinese and will definitely mature by 2026 when it will ready to be exported. What we must be waiting to see is the competition SAC and CAC are having for PLAN carrier requirements. CAC card isn’t revealed yet...
Yes, you're right bro but remember one thing main hurdle for Chinese defense industries is for Engine development, WS-10 still has various issues, WS-15 For J-20 just started testing on J-20 as per some Chinese members, why J-10 wont be exported to other countries Because of Russian AL-31FN/RD-93, that hindered the sale of J-10/FC-31, and J-10 offers for export on Various times in Zuhai airshows
 
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Yes, you're right bro but remember one thing main hurdle for Chinese defense industries is for Engine development, WS-10 still has various issues, WS-15 For J-20 just started testing on J-20 as per some Chinese members, why J-10 wont be exported to other countries Because of Russian AL-31FN/RD-93, that hindered the sale of J-10/FC-31, and J-10 offers for export on Various times in Zuhai airshows
Long time, no see for WS-13 and WS-13E... No updates, nothing. @LKJ86 @Deino ?
 
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Yes, you're right bro but remember one thing main hurdle for Chinese defense industries is for Engine development, WS-10 still has various issues, WS-15 For J-20 just started testing on J-20 as per some Chinese members, why J-10 wont be exported to other countries Because of Russian AL-31FN/RD-93, that hindered the sale of J-10/FC-31, and J-10 offers for export on Various times in Zuhai airshows

Subject at hand is not about J-20, Chinese Engines or J-10 but still, if China wants to sell J-10 to any nation; they just pitched it and there is no say about Russian Engine. What you read in open can be a cover story but there are lot of factors into play when a Nation is expected to sell its marvel/top notch bird like that. I really hope that discussion will end here.
 
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I read the posts and then thought, why not to rant a bit? after all everyone is having a good time at discussion whereby be adding information or positive criticism, is pretty much interesting.

If you may remember, we had some discussion in regard to Nigerian acquisition of Thunders while one of the missiles was into integration process for Thunders. What was revealed that every day, month or year spent upon the platform is in-fact being utilized for further development but it may looks like an idle situation to the commoners or people not so aware about progress behind closed doors.

Thunder provided us the feeling of road towards self-reliance and not just that but sets up a base for our aviation industry. Why don't people try to connect the dots that Project Azm ain't just born out of sudden idea but it has the route going back to 90s when we started with Thunder development. We have witnessed the PAF hierarchy saying that Thunder provided enough knowledge & Tech Validation that some of the developments are seen in J-10 & even a bit in J-20. All those techs combined with our participation for JF-17, is a big success. It may looks like to the few that Thunder is merely a short legged, not so attractive and behind 4th Gen fighters but on other hand, we are here talking about almost 80 years of Tycoons in Jet industry as compare to our first step into right direction. JF-17 Thunder is evolving and is more than good in its class of fighters as well as the product by a nation like Pakistan having all the sanctions & not so pleasant economy, with the help of China.

Secondly, JF-17 Thunder is still evolving and it wasn't a shortsightedness that such design parameters along with low-Med class jet was created but in-fact, our geography along with need and then finally/above all our strategy come planning or doctrine was involved to come up with such product. Has it been about stretching the air-frame, adding more size into Block-I or II for weight carrying and even the tech around; who in the right mind will deny the fact PAC/PAF could have waited more longer or even put some more $$ into project but question remains as whether the same worth it. The upcoming Block-III, as speculated or per information available in public domain, is going to deliver us more than expected security having its latest tech, weaponry & independence for our integration for the weapon of our choice.

Similarly, it is going all as planned and couple of months delay which actually results in more capable fighter having latest incorporated Tech is far more beneficial than half cooked/hastily decided product. Thunder is all fine in its domain and if I have to think as what will supplement the Med-High area in PAF then in-fact I will repeat myself that plans are in place. F-16s are staying as they are serving effectively, Mirages V etc are in arena with more life and due to their critical role and upcoming Thunder with Block-III that will suffice separated & designated role like we have different squadrons. Med-High class will be filled hence, we are looking at Azm which itself may be yet another surprise. We apparently aren't rushing for many factors including a well cooked product, lot of experience being gained, a self reliant structure & more emphasis on freedom of platform for matting anything that we want against the Enemy.

In the end, frustration in regard to awaited Block-III and our opinion that PAF should have either Viper or another Med-High platform is not unjust rather we feel the necessity for our security so I will give it like that for those who shows positive frustration though, saying that Top Brass is or was clueless or this & that is not fair at all. As the economy grows, we can see more of shiny Viper type jets produced by PAC.

You do have a point but I’ll also add positive criticism is a good thing — we have to question our top brass decisions when it comes to national security matters. Yes we just started our industry and hopefully it matures compared to current players with 90+ years of experience. The frustration lies also when we’re not given enough info as to what’s going on as well while the neighbor next door is building up.

Other concern is how we counter the likes of F-35 we’ve seen in past how Israel-India planned to knock out of reactors like Iraq but we were able counter it that time. What we do now? Many questions.
 
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What was revealed that every day, month or year spent upon the platform is in-fact being utilized for further development but it may looks like an idle situation to the commoners or people not so aware about progress behind closed doors.
:-):-) Had we all known of these things, would these forums still get discussion or visitors? Nope. We all are ‘Dil behlao’ people, desperate and obsessed
 
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Long time, no see for WS-13 and WS-13E... No updates, nothing. @LKJ86 @Deino ?
WS-13 is once tested on JF-17 that participate i think 2015 Paris airshow but i think PAF were not satisfied from its performance, and WS-13 is based on RD-93, i think Chinese skipped WS-13 project and start all new engine project named WS-19 for FC-31 or medium weight jet and may be future version of JF-17 in class of eurojet-200/ GE F-414
 
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You do have a point but I’ll also add positive criticism is a good thing — we have to question our top brass decisions when it comes to national security matters. Yes we just started our industry and hopefully it matures compared to current players with 90+ years of experience. The frustration lies also when we’re not given enough info as to what’s going on as well while the neighbor next door is building up.

On that part of leaking information for public satisfaction; I am really sorry but it doesn't matters in modern warfare. Just imagine that a country of size like Pakistan just surprised the 7x times bigger enemy with their all the might of Air Superiority. You know why? the secrecy of your best weapon my friend. You don't just beat the drums in front of world for good feelings rather, you prove your worth when the time comes. Your next door neighbor been building up and just a day before 27th Feb, everyone was of the same opinion as of your post but then what happened is still written in history. So, In'Sha'ALLAH, keep calm and keep an eye while paying attention as what is really happening in arena and we will surprise them again & again. Your frustration in regard to India building & buying Rafale or this & that is right to the extent as what you see on the surface seeing their drum beatings as compare to Pakistan being busy with counter strategy & keeping calm. Decisions by the top brass are based upon future planning & doctrine evolving then it will be foolish to expect anyone spilling the beans openly and that is not just for Pakistan but every nation out there.

Everyone asks question from the authority but on the same time, we shouldn't become authoritarian.

:-):-) Had we all known of these things, would these forums still get discussion or visitors? Nope. We all are ‘Dil behlao’ people, desperate and obsessed

Agreed. Such obsession & our interest is what keeps us get going for more & more, whether on the Forum or for the security of Pakistan.
 
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Did I say It had something to do with your post?
Did I even respond to your post in the first place?
I responded to someone else and you jumped in demanding to be named directly.
and what are you trying to say in your quoted post?
Is everything ok in your life? you look agitated for no reason.




So---what does this have to do with what I wrote---.

Just simply say---in a moment of excitement---I just lost my thoughts---.

We all do that---one time or another---instead of lying and compounding on the lie---.
 
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Hi,

A lots of us got on the bandwagon of bashing the JF17 lately---.

The thing is that if the JF17 was not a capable aircraft---it would not have been presented at Paris , Farnsborough, Dubai air shows and definitely the announcers would have made negative comments about issues with the aircraft---.

I have commented a lot against this aircraft and it is not for a want of ability or capability---that have not been the issue---the issue had been about the lack of an able and capable aircraft in the right numbers---.

It is also for the reason that any and all failures are of the pakistani public and not the Paf alone---it is the pakistani nation that is at a loss---.

When the engine problem came up---pakistan lost valuable time---when the EW package problems came up---pakistani nation lost big time---those two problems pushed the aircraft development by at least 5-7 years at the least---and for that we are still not fully integrated of our maximum capabilities on the BLK2---.

We had to suffer this loss all on our own---.

For the J10's---the loss would have been pretty absorbed by the chinese 100%.

By this time we would have had J10 C's flying with aesa radars for at least two years time period---a lots of glitches of the system and electronics would have been cleaned up and cleared---.

This induction would have tactically put us about 6-8 possibly 10 years ahead of the JF17 with aesa---.

The JF17 will take a while to get integrated with aesa and be fully operational---.

Pakistani nation would have been much better off with at least leasing 50 J10-C's 4 years ago and getting deliveries a couple of years ago---.

As for those making the claims that their Paf acquintances are claiming the JF17 to be a poor product are misleading the forum.

There have been those in very capable positions in defense analytical industry claiming the F35 to be a poor performing aircraft---even though---the rest of the world does not have a single aircraft to compete with the F35---.

Also please remember---there are a lots of officers jealous of ACM R Shahid Lateef and the lime light that he got---. So---this forum may also be a board for them to try to put down his good name by bashing on the JF17---.
 
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Can someone tell me what are our contingency plans if IAF tries to take out the PAC Kamra facility with cruise missiles for example? Its the one and only facility that all our aviation relation programs are rooted in. Cant we just distribute the facilities all over the country especially in western and southern balochistan so in case of an attack , we dont lose everything! The current setup is like a one room house where the enemy knows where to find you each time![/QUOTE
You absolutely right Sir. Our strategic Planning Division must look at this matter. For the future they must plan to spread all these strategic industry from north to south along with the CPEC belt. So the air attack could also damage Chinese interest in the region then they will also come to rescue the area from the war. Because we don't have enough strategic depth.
 
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Can someone tell me what are our contingency plans if IAF tries to take out the PAC Kamra facility with cruise missiles for example? Its the one and only facility that all our aviation relation programs are rooted in. Cant we just distribute the facilities all over the country especially in western and southern balochistan so in case of an attack , we dont lose everything! The current setup is like a one room house where the enemy knows where to find you each time!

Hi,

Tactically---there was no reason for the production line established for the JF17 at Kamra---. It should have been Baluchistan---close to Quetta

Moreover now a days small countries which are targeted by us to sell arms usually buy arms for political support and security. Prime example is Qatar and other gulf countries. They buy arms and in return get suuport of these countries. India is buying weapons from France and in return France is supporting them economically and also politically.

Hi,

Thank you very much---.

So in reverse we can say---if we supported the GCC regarding yemen---we would have been the most favorite---.
 
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