PAF to get extra F-16 Block-52+ ?

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

[apologies the conversation is drifting to thuder while thread is about F16 ]

Well we have 50 Thunders completed per Wiki , however the release and induction figures appear to show 40 jets so that may need correction however still we should have had alot more jets had we operated with production capacity of
10 jets / year ratio

J10B deal , would have been fantastic , it would have filled the gap due to slowness in the JF17 thunder production and 36 New jets would have handsomely filled the gap in production.

But what I see is

1) Slow JF17 thunder production (We are missing at least 30 JF17 thunders due to slow production)
2) Refusal to induct J10B into Airforce (36 Jets)

A double edge blow on modernization front

Almost loss of 76 Fighter jets , Ironically we could have actively replaced majority of Mirage old fleet by this 70 extra fighter jet figures



F16 is only viable option if
a) If we have AESA radar available , with license/ Access to source like Turkey does
b) Easy access to upgrades

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

If used F-15s can be procured then PAF can maintain them like IDF and KSA can help in maintaining them, but in my opinion used F-18s with upgrades will be better option as F-18s are still going to be produced in near future more then F-15s and they are going to be upgraded to Advance Super Hornet standard too./QUOTE]

I remember some time back in one of the posts did right about if F15's are added to PAF it would be big asset but the response that was received was the opposite. Earlier on Page 15 of this Thread did post the aircraft that are available in 2015 about 50 F15 C. These are the ones that do not require Congress only Executive order but as PAF does not fly these it might require Congress Approval.

F18's would definitely require Congress approval. It would be far better to get Super Hornets directly but that would expensive. Moreover the only technical help available in this region is Kuwait.

There can be an other possibility that is to acquire the Spanish Air Force Eurofighter's as they are desperately in need to reduce the operational expenses. Eurofighter would be far easier to maintain as most of its spares are manufactured in Saudi Arabia.

 

[HRK]

JF-17 procurement and production is slow and PAF needs to replace its old jets fast as mirages are now crashing frequently

How many Mirage Jets have fallen from sky in this year .... ??

to do that PAF need off the shelve available products and used jets like F-16, M2K9, Mig-29, Su-30s, F-18s, F-15s, JAS-39s etc fits in it as they can provide good deterrent too.

Going for any of these Jet which you named other then F-16 would not be beneficial to us, as all of these platforms will required additional Human & Financial resources just to attain initial operational level, moreover PAF would have 'zero' experience of maintenance & operation of these jets; so just to 'absorb' them completely in PAF would take years if not a decade at least & going for used ones would be more risky & time consuming option.

F-16 save us from all those headache as we have all the related infrastructure & manpower available to us, so in our situation F-16 is ideal because this platform give us financial & operational advantages in least possible time-frame, we can fly it to its full potential from the very next moment of taking the delivery, so F-16 is advantageous to us in Financial Terms as it would cost < $10 million (used), save us 24-36 months of time as compare to any other platform and in terms of operations the existing infrastructure of F-16 in PAF could support + 100 F-16. therefore no need to go for any other platform.

Now addressing to your earlier post (post # 420 of this thread) in which you were seeking the possibilities of any other platform 'if' F-16 is not available to PAF, first of all we need to understand that PAF need only 20-30 additional F-16s at max not more than that and personally I think it would not a rational thinking that PAF would not be able to get this 'limited number' of F-16 in 1-2 years time-frame from whole of the F-16 community, even if somehow PAF failed to get this limited number of F-16 due to any reason than there is only one platform available which offer the same operational, financial and time saving advantages to PAF but relatively less than F-16 & that platform is our own Mirage Jet (other than JF-17, the production of single block take around 3 years of time). We would required to initiate an extensive up-gradation programme for them including their fuselage like 'F-16 MLU programme' as 'stopgap'.

 

[rockstar08]

AH-1Z's were on offer under the CIEF(counter-insurgency-enhancement-fund) but the program is withdrawn.
OHP's are available on conditions.....1. release Dr.Afridi.....2.go after Haqqani network.....3.state dept waiver that we are 'behaving' ourselves.

sorry to say this , but in short " become US B!tch Again "

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

This argument about infrastructure and training of mechanics and engineers is our infrastructure and engineers so , weak and fragile that if we bought F16 they can never be training anything but the F16 ....

That argument really I mean really is so , ridiculous. That a nation of Pakistan's engineering and educational capacity is so fragile that it is shacking to its core when ever we discuss of changing the F16 or Mirage platform.

What are these engineering doing 90% of time , we know 10% they prepare the planes and maintain , do we not have any "TRAINING" goals for updating the standard of these engineers that they should be learning new systems !!!

If that is the case then we will be flying F16 even in 2099

Engineers and Mechanics role is to pick up the new manual and understand the components and get on with what they do "Engineering stuff" and put things together and make things work

That is why you have "Training programs and incentives" when new weapons are introduced
training !!!


1. We can't make engines for F16
2. We can't make parts for F16
3. We are stuck with the radars given to us , stuck as a goose in barrel
4. Our weapons are encoded to only work with this plane
5 . We have limited ammo for F16
6 . No AESA unless its 2040


So anyway we look at it .... F16 is a baby milk feeder , you suckle it up like baby and feel secure , but that milk in baby feeder will go down quickly when you are hungry at time of war and then there will be no milk and baby will cry

That is why we need a strategy to have J10B , or J11 in our airforce

F16 is nothing but a "TOOL" a tool that is used when needed , but it should not dictate what is the goal for modernization for our Airforce , we need diversification and weapons that can be enhanced , modernized at will !!! and in any quantity

 

[IrbiS]

The production figures are not well

We should have been making 14 planes / year as it was the original plan

2007 - 2 Thunders 14% efficiency
2008 - 6 Thunders 42% efficiency
2009 - 4 Thunders 28 % efficiency
2010 - 8 Thunders 66 % efficiency
2011 - 9 Thunders 64 %efficiency
2012 - 2 Thunders 57 % efficiency
2013 - 9 Thunders 64 % efficiency

Full capacity of PAC is 25 JFs per year.

 

[Neptune]

After 2024; upon the modernisation program of TURAF, all 244 F-16s will be started to be phased out of service. Since 36 of these are Block 40 LANTIRNs, the rest are 50/50+ CCIP variants. But a question comes in to my mind that Turkish government will of course be willing to give falcons to PAF but since Turkish jets are using a separate software. Will that make a problem?


@Oscar @fatman17 @Horus and other experts

 

[Kompromat]

After 2024; upon the modernisation program of TURAF, all 244 F-16s will be started to be phased out of service. Since 36 of these are Block 40 LANTIRNs, the rest are 50/50+ CCIP variants. But a question comes in to my mind that Turkish government will of course be willing to give falcons to PAF but since Turkish jets are using a separate software. Will that make a problem?

I don't think we will still be buying falcons in 2024. If FC-31 comes online the way we expect it to, we will replace falcons with them. For long term replacement of JF-17s though if Turkey goes for a single engine TFX we might join in.

 

[ziaulislam]

f-16s are too expensive over 100 million dollars

After 2024; upon the modernisation program of TURAF, all 244 F-16s will be started to be phased out of service. Since 36 of these are Block 40 LANTIRNs, the rest are 50/50+ CCIP variants. But a question comes in to my mind that Turkish government will of course be willing to give falcons to PAF but since Turkish jets are using a separate software. Will that make a problem?


@Oscar @fatman17 @Horus and other experts

and what will be the replacement for those f-16s? it cant be f-35, turkey only intends to buy 100. its likely that turkey will also push the f-16 beyond 2030. financing any other aircraft will be difficult for turkey too. look how difficult it is for india for just 120 MRCA

 

[Storm Force]

More than at any time I am now convinced that the paf pursuit of more f16 fighters is down to two things.

Firstly it is more capable s fighter than the the thunder even the block 2

Second it is available at much lower cost than both the thunder and the j10.

There can be no other logical reason for buying military hardware from a country that will not back in s war with India.it does not make sense. USA could easily sanction you at any moment proven time and time in history.

 

[Storm Force]

India three premier fighters

Su30mki

Mig29 k and upgraded smt


Mirage 2000?5 with mica bvr

Can only be tackled by your falcons.

And have a fifty fifty chance of success in one v one scenario .

But it is comprised ootion

 

[Stephen Cohen]

More than at any time I am now convinced that the paf pursuit of more f16 fighters is down to two things.

Firstly it is more capable s fighter than the the thunder even the block 2

Second it is available at much lower cost than both the thunder and the j10.

There can be no other logical reason for buying military hardware from a country that will not back in s war with India.it does not make sense. USA could easily sanction you at any moment proven time and time in history.

J 10 is simply not available as long as it carries AL 31

By the Time WS 10 matures it will be another five years and the Twin engine
J 31 with RD 93 will be available

And as far as comparision of Jf 17 Block 2 with F 16 is concerned ;
there is no comparision really

 

[Stephen Cohen]

India three premier fighters

Su30mki

Mig29 k and upgraded smt


Mirage 2000?5 with mica bvr

Can only be tackled by your falcons.

And have a fifty fifty chance of success in one v one scenario .

IAF Fighter sweep operations will go after the Falcons first and foremost

Remember we will get only 4 or 5 days till Global pressure mounts for a ceasefire

 

[MastanKhan]

J 10 is simply not available as long as it carries AL 31

By the Time WS 10 matures it will be another five years and the Twin engine
J 31 with RD 93 will be available

And as far as comparision of Jf 17 Block 2 with F 16 is concerned ;
there is no comparision really

Hi,

actually it is available with---the Chinese president offered a sqdrn of J10b's a couple of six months ago or lesser.

 

[IrbiS]

f-16s are too expensive over 100 million dollars

It's not that much.