PAF Should Go For The F 35---A Coupe De Grace

[wiseone2]

They are all paid in cash my boy-----not from their tax payers----how did you get to that.

i am sure all the cash paid by Uncle Sam to Pakistan did not help

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

When I say purchase of F 35----what I am saying is that is the primary aircraft----your complimentary aircraft would be a deep strike aircraft---and an air superiority fighter----or a two in one----.

Even a sqdrn strength of F35's would be a game changer.

Pakistan's salvation lies not in nukes---but in a deep strike naval air wing. Who operates it makes no difference----.

i am sure all the cash paid by Uncle Sam to Pakistan did not help

Are you going to keep this stupid back and forth.

 

[Last Samuri]

Mastan Pakistan has no cash

Your hardly a economic power house.

Massive population and tiny gdp.

Joke forex balance.

Where the cash buddy

 

[gambit]

Actually I think not, Pakistan getting the F-35 is not a good idea. It will seriously undo the balance of power in the subcontinent buddy. It's not that the current F-16's that you have on your fleet is giving sleepless nights to your neighbor. Pakistan having the F-35 is a nightmare scenario for them.

@gambit , @Syed.Ali.Haider , @Armstrong , your inputs here gentlemen?

You are essentially correct.

Italian general Giulio Douhet is considered by many to be the 'father of strategic air power'. For being a theorist, Douhet ranks right up there with Billy Mitchell and John Boyd for vision and unexpected insights about air power.

'Victory smiles upon those who anticipate the changes in the character of war, not upon those who wait to adapt themselves after the changes occur.' -- Giulio Douhet

What Douhet said about warfare in general is applicable to ALL wars, regardless of scale. Each war is unique in terms of origin of hostility, ideologies, politics, geography, and resources. Obviously, we do not expect landlocked countries to have experts in naval warfare. And because of these uniqueness, each war have its own distinct characteristics.

Douhet was also farsighted in that he recognized Earth based warfare, which is land and naval, to be essentially defensive in movements. It is defensive in the sense that armies are 2-dimensions restricted and that sooner or later, mass formations of armies must meet and defend themselves against each other. The results often contains what most generals and admirals loathe -- stalemates.

Stalemates do not end wars but actually prolongs them. If the opposite of war is peace, then a stalemate is nothing outside a respite to allow all sides to reload.

But the corollary to what Douhet said is also that victory smiles upon those who INITIATE changes in the character of war, thereby able to control the direction of a war and perhaps even determine its outcome. The F-35 would be that initiator of changes in the character of the hostility between countries in the subcontinent. Since the F-35 is an import item, its availibility rests upon the whims of the seller, and if he has any interests in the geopolitics of the region, he will carefully weigh the benefits vs negative consequences of selling it to one side but not the other.

 

[Pulsar]

Hi,

After much thought and deliberation---I have come to the conclusion that PAF should change gears in mid stream and go for a 2 Sqdrn strength of the F 35 initially.

They should drop the idea for the SU35 or the J11D and go for the JH7B with the upgraded engine and aesa radar.

But the key over here is the F35----. With the procurement of this aircraft---it can bring some balance to the fire fight and have some strength at its disposal to maintain and manage an aggressive and a defensive power stance---.

This is an unconventional approach to the problem at hand---. Go for the 5th gen aircraft first and then go back to the 4--- 4.5 gen aircraft---.

It will also give it enough time to develop the JF 17 blk 3 as well.

There are a couple of things that have changed-----. @Zarvan brought my attention to a thread started by Usama---I believe---regarding the F15 Silent eagle----with a new configuration of 16 BVR missiles on the wings and underbody with conformal fuel tanks designed by Boeing believe.

The F 15 would be guided by the F22 and the F 35 towards the target---the same can be done with the JF 17's. If it can be designed to carry 6 BVR missiles---then you have taken care of some of the problems facing the air defense of the country.

By going for the F 35---you are going to take the initiative away from the enemy. If it was me----I would rather have 2 sqdrn's of F35's than 4 sqdrn's of J11d's or SU35's.

You guys are being upset at why this change in game plan----why d I keep bringing different scenarios-----. I guess you people might come across some news in the near or distant future.

So---til then--- I am not going to say anything else---. Just wanted to let you guys know---if India was a litte more aggressive last year---the deal for the J10B's was done----.

To those who are roaming around the air force bases----please look for 2 of them------.

You talk as though Pakistan is one of the richest countries in the world!

Dream on....Do you even know what the cost of an F-35 is? $80M!! That's more than Rs 850 crores PKR a pop! Add to that the life cycle costs and it would be way above Rs 1000 crore PKR per aircraft!

You wanted a squadron? That would be a cool 20,000 crores PKR. Two? Rs 40,000 crores. No big deal for Pakistan's economy, right? Wrong! It would go bust!

 

[zebra7]

You talk as though Pakistan is one of the richest countries in the world!

Dream on....Do you even know what the cost of an F-35 is? $80M!! That's more than Rs 850 crores PKR a pop! Add to that the life cycle costs and it would be way above Rs 1000 crore PKR per aircraft!

You wanted a squadron? That would be a cool 20,000 crores PKR. Two? Rs 40,000 crores. No big deal for Pakistan's economy, right? Wrong! It would go bust!

Are you sure about the price ?

• F-35A: $98 million
• F-35B: $104 million
• F-35C: $116 million

Excluding engine

 

[MEAGAN FOXSS]

F 35 SUCKS . . . . . .

 

[Pulsar]

Are you sure about the price ?

• F-35A: $98 million
• F-35B: $104 million
• F-35C: $116 million

Excluding engine

2019 (planned) FRP Batch
F-35A – $83.4
F-35B – $108.1
F-35C – $93.3
(target price incl. engine) Costs are estimated as of 2012.

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia under heading 'procurement costs'.

 

[MastanKhan]

You talk as though Pakistan is one of the richest countries in the world!

Dream on....Do you even know what the cost of an F-35 is? $80M!! That's more than Rs 850 crores PKR a pop! Add to that the life cycle costs and it would be way above Rs 1000 crore PKR per aircraft!

You wanted a squadron? That would be a cool 20,000 crores PKR. Two? Rs 40,000 crores. No big deal for Pakistan's economy, right? Wrong! It would go bust!

I could not even answer to your post---.

 

[wiseone2]

F16 is already balanced or superseded by Su 30 MKI . Pak Fa will upset the balance which can only be countered by F 35. India keeping Rafael Su 30 Pak-Fa and F35 will be itself threat to US and as far as we all know US, US don't trust even The UK.

the PAF FA is vapor ware until the Russians prove they can build it

 

[massattack]

Hi,

After much thought and deliberation--To those who are roaming around the air force bases----please look for 2 of them------.

..The f35??you gotta be kidding??? Please decide again or at least give us information of deliberations you had and discussions you had and under what circumstances???and request you to share information at hand.....and above all what makes you think usa will ever give us one of those anyway? they are even reluctant to give us the z-1's we dearly need to replace our AH cobras. The very reason we developed the JF-17 was the US hardware we already have in our inventory, and resistance we face every time we place and order for hardware assistance..
Coming back to the F35 as i what i know from the information and stats i have seen makes it a highly unwanted jet.... you have to be really insane to even think about procuring this jet!!. ...
besides sanction factor and support factor..... Russia seems to be a natural alley of Pakistan besides geographical location it also has brotherly relation with other Muslim and Asian countries.

Right now we need SU-35 as it will give us the edge we are missing against the the indian SU30s and american war planes. F35 is a white elephant that is ineffective against even the SU30s hence talks are in air for shooting it down even in the west the f-22 is already shot down
making it a dead project.

its about time we have direct relations with Russia and buy first hand hardware and assistance from Russia. This will also pacify our tensions with India and marginalise USA blackmailing everytime we are looking to buy someting from them.... i say better relations with Russian better for our country and its in beneficial for both countries.. Inshallah

 

[Skywalker]

Hi,

If not sooner---then later you guys are going to find out what I am saying.

Mastan Baha'i are these the same two beasts you were referring to earlier when you were in Pakistan.

 

[boke]

买F35是非常不现实的，对巴基斯坦来讲。首先，考虑到每架飞机1.5亿美元的单价，财政是否承担得起是个问题。其次，美国国会很难同意。目前采购了F35的国家基本上都是北约成员和美国盟国，巴基斯坦两者都不是，而且同中国关系比较密切，存在技术泄露的风险。再次，从地缘政治上来讲，出售巴基斯坦F35对于美国控制地区利益的好处比不上印度。换句话来说，卖给印度美国能更好的牵制中国和南亚，能更好的控制印度洋水域，卖给印度的可能性更大。从现实的角度讲，美国现在正在大卖印度武器装备，印度也显得很大方，而巴基斯坦相对来说就穷很多，美国人知道怎么取悦自己的重要客户。
巴基斯坦空军相对印度的优势在于，巴基斯坦能自主生产战机，并且有能力也一直在改进这款战机；巴基斯坦飞行员训练非常刻苦，能力比较强。任何外来的力量都必须认识到只是辅助，能够自力更生，能将装备和人完美的结合，发挥出现有装备最大的威力，这才是巴基斯坦必须要重视的。别迷信F35，它本身也没有某些人想象的那么强！

 

[iPhone]

I like @MastanKhan 's forward thinking. Instead of beating around the bush and opting for stop-gap aircrafts, go for the jugular with the f-35.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

F35 is a white elephant that is ineffective against even the SU30s hence talks are in air for shooting it down even in the west the f-22 is already shot down
making it a dead project.

And you are saying this to second best stealth fighter in the world after f22.
I am sure, you are one decade ahead than U.S.A