PAF Should Go For The F 35---A Coupe De Grace

[Pindi Boy]

this will be great

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Better to have Russian or Chinese Sukhoi's then an expensive war trophy like F-35, if Pakistan want to pursue US for Air Superiority Fighters go for FA-18 Hornets or F-15 Silent Eagles.
1. FA-18 Hornet

2. F-15 Silent Eagle

My Personal view is to go for FA-18 because its is the only fighter which matches the aerodynamics of JF-17 Thunder but depends on American mood to sell Pakistan HI-TECH weapons.

I was a little surprise when US gave Green signal to Pakistan that it will sell AH-1Z Viper Helicopters along with Hell-fire missiles to Pakistan so maybe we can expect something from US if Pakistan Pursue.

There is no surprise in this.The deal for AH1Z was done as far back as 2012. I have a son in law who flies armed helos and it was around 2012 that he told me that we will be getting them. The delay was because of USMC evaluation delays and production priority for them. We have never participated in a US purchase program where we are the only foreign customer besides their own military. At one point -- discussions were going on to divert some assets produced for USMC to Pakistan but the lead time to induct the air frames would have negated the need for rush deliveries. In the end Uncle Sam facilitated the deal for us to buy some Jordanian second hand air frames that were immediately inducted and flown into combat.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

this will be greatView attachment 265385

No thanks

 

[nadeemkhan110]

F-35 not even an option for PAF
SU-35, t50, j-31 and TAI TFX are an options for PAF

 

[cloud4000]

US will not sell the F-35 to Gulf states. So it's highly doubtful it will be offered to Pakistan even if it's requested.

 

[Viper0011.]

US will not sell the F-35 to Gulf states. So it's highly doubtful it will be offered to Pakistan even if it's requested.

Absolutely wrong. If the US and Pakistan align and Pakistan, economy wise gets to where she needs to by 2022-2025, I can assure you, the JSF will be sold to Pakistan under strict restrictions though (export version with certain non US avionics). LM had listed Pakistan as a potential customer after 2022 a couple of years ago.

If Pakistan as a nation can pay $ 5 billion cash (which shouldn't be a big deal by 2022), they'll have the JSF. OR, they'll start another project with Turkey or Russia. The US wants to establish strategic relationship due to Pakistan's influence on many areas, including the ME. And she's realized that Pakistan can't be let go all the way in the Chinese corner.

Pakistan's location and influence is such that no India or anyone can provide that or counter the influence. So that's one of the main reason why all major powers have de-hyphenated India and Pakistan. They want to treat them separate. Plus, Pakistan offers a huge market that needs pretty much everything and will give more profit for the next two decades, than India or China or other developing countries. So everyone wants that too.

Welcome to a new, stable, economically growing and a to be Regional Power called Pakistan

What about Sanctions? Like Pakistan Faced Sanctions on F-16's same thing can happen to F-35... Why would someone want a Plane which strings and Controls will always be in another hands.... I think the Main reason even India Refused F-16's because of sanctions

I am not the POTUS or a Senator obviously. But I think based on evidence and the perception of Pakistan that exists today in Washington, its fair to say that Pakistan won't see sanctions again. Unless something crazy happens like a human rights mess like hundreds gotten killed.

But Pakistan is a democratic country so chances are almost less than 1% of that. IK was the biggest pain in the neck to create political stability. The Army has given him the middle finger as a third umpire also with a strong STFU call. So he'll be off the grid and no hatred anger instigation will be made further, outside of regular political hatred and statements, which don't look at another sit-in and all, or body bags as IK's been wanting. So this ends that drama.

This is the first time a Pakistani PM has rescheduled his trip to the US at the last minute to get a clarified agenda and items to discuss. It has never happened before and its being reviewed with much respect and a different independent, growing Pakistan all together. Not the liability it used to be considered. Typically, every Pakistani leader jumps on the plane to meet with POTUS. This one thing here tells you the perception of Pakistan has changed on the world map. It is now considered a critical country with a lot of influence on many fronts and high growth economic potential.

So all in all, JSF is a reality post 2020-2022, LM had already mentioned Pakistan as a "potential customer" post 2020. And paying $ 5-10 billion for these babies after 2022 won't be an issue for the Pakistani economy.

I still think for short term, J11D is a must have. OR, NS can negotiate 50 or more -16, block 40 with low flying miles. I am sure there may be some available through one of the US military branches who is replacing them with the JFT. This will provide immediate numbers Pakistan may need.

At the least, a good partnership is in progress and the US and Pakistan will form new ties when NS visits the US. Both countries can achieve their goals, put the past behind and Pakistan get a ton of help on growing her economy and defense needs.

This meeting is much different than any meeting any Pakistani leader has ever had in Washington. This is one growing and to be a regional power, meeting with the only super power to form a partnership for shared goals and vision

Its time that Pakistani nation stands behind NS and let him finish his term. You ENTIRE military leadership is behind him right now, unanimously. That ALSO has never happened

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Guys n Gals need to watch "Dogfights of the Future." I have pasted the link below.

dogfights of the future - YouTube

Awesome knowledge base of technology and tactics.

 

[Vortex]

We should work on our own systems. We should be less and less dependent on foreign system being them us origin or Chinese one..

At this stage we should start some research on unmanned combat aircraft technologies or at least on subsystems.. Bringing in the adventure some universities and some private companies.... For artificial intelligence, some sensors, .... It could help us to upgrade our JF17 future evoluations

 

[cloud4000]

Absolutely wrong. If the US and Pakistan align and Pakistan, economy wise gets to where she needs to by 2022-2025, I can assure you, the JSF will be sold to Pakistan under strict restrictions though (export version with certain non US avionics). LM had listed Pakistan as a potential customer after 2022 a couple of years ago.

If Pakistan as a nation can pay $ 5 billion cash (which shouldn't be a big deal by 2022), they'll have the JSF. OR, they'll start another project with Turkey or Russia. The US wants to establish strategic relationship due to Pakistan's influence on many areas, including the ME. And she's realized that Pakistan can't be let go all the way in the Chinese corner.

Pakistan's location and influence is such that no India or anyone can provide that or counter the influence. So that's one of the main reason why all major powers have de-hyphenated India and Pakistan. They want to treat them separate. Plus, Pakistan offers a huge market that needs pretty much everything and will give more profit for the next two decades, than India or China or other developing countries. So everyone wants that too.

Welcome to a new, stable, economically growing and a to be Regional Power called Pakistan

First of all, I would like to say, great post!

I would like to have said that US will not offer F-35 today. As you state, it's possible they will offer at a later date. The main reason is Israel, which is taking delivery of F-35s next year, I believe. US is committed to giving military Quality Military Edge (QME) in the Middle East. Plus, India and Israel will lobby hard to block such a sale. I think it would be in Pakistan's interest to jointly develop a new 5th generation fighter with either China or Turkey.

Plus, even though you say US will not let Pakistan go "all the way in the Chinese corner." I'm afraid this is already happening. The CPEC project seals the deal. Pakistan is much more tightly integrated with China. US is taking note of this and will act accordingly.

I agree with you that US treats India and Pakistan as separate entities, with differing interests. US does not want to be in a position to choose sides. Anyway, these days Pakistan would prefer a better economic relations than a military one.

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

I think after the recent diplomatic fiasco this bid is closed and so should be the thread .....what do you say ..... @MastanKhan .... should we start discussing again the su-35, j-31 etc

 

[dadeechi]

Last year Russian Ambassador in New Delhi Alexander Kadakin claimed that Chinese Sukhoi Flankers will swat the Rafale like mosquitoes. This also means F-35s can do the same or better to RAFALEs.

At one point in time LM dangled F-35s to India if it chooses F-16 for MMRCA. Now LM is unhappy that India is not procuring F-16s and showing interest in F-18s instead even for its A/C deal. Seems like LM is offering F-35 to Pakistan to get back at both Boeing and Dassault.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Absolutely wrong. If the US and Pakistan align and Pakistan, economy wise gets to where she needs to by 2022-2025, I can assure you, the JSF will be sold to Pakistan under strict restrictions though (export version with certain non US avionics). LM had listed Pakistan as a potential customer after 2022 a couple of years ago.

If Pakistan as a nation can pay $ 5 billion cash (which shouldn't be a big deal by 2022), they'll have the JSF. OR, they'll start another project with Turkey or Russia. The US wants to establish strategic relationship due to Pakistan's influence on many areas, including the ME. And she's realized that Pakistan can't be let go all the way in the Chinese corner.

Pakistan's location and influence is such that no India or anyone can provide that or counter the influence. So that's one of the main reason why all major powers have de-hyphenated India and Pakistan. They want to treat them separate. Plus, Pakistan offers a huge market that needs pretty much everything and will give more profit for the next two decades, than India or China or other developing countries. So everyone wants that too.

Welcome to a new, stable, economically growing and a to be Regional Power called Pakistan



I am not the POTUS or a Senator obviously. But I think based on evidence and the perception of Pakistan that exists today in Washington, its fair to say that Pakistan won't see sanctions again. Unless something crazy happens like a human rights mess like hundreds gotten killed.

But Pakistan is a democratic country so chances are almost less than 1% of that. IK was the biggest pain in the neck to create political stability. The Army has given him the middle finger as a third umpire also with a strong STFU call. So he'll be off the grid and no hatred anger instigation will be made further, outside of regular political hatred and statements, which don't look at another sit-in and all, or body bags as IK's been wanting. So this ends that drama.

This is the first time a Pakistani PM has rescheduled his trip to the US at the last minute to get a clarified agenda and items to discuss. It has never happened before and its being reviewed with much respect and a different independent, growing Pakistan all together. Not the liability it used to be considered. Typically, every Pakistani leader jumps on the plane to meet with POTUS. This one thing here tells you the perception of Pakistan has changed on the world map. It is now considered a critical country with a lot of influence on many fronts and high growth economic potential.

So all in all, JSF is a reality post 2020-2022, LM had already mentioned Pakistan as a "potential customer" post 2020. And paying $ 5-10 billion for these babies after 2022 won't be an issue for the Pakistani economy.

I still think for short term, J11D is a must have. OR, NS can negotiate 50 or more -16, block 40 with low flying miles. I am sure there may be some available through one of the US military branches who is replacing them with the JFT. This will provide immediate numbers Pakistan may need.

At the least, a good partnership is in progress and the US and Pakistan will form new ties when NS visits the US. Both countries can achieve their goals, put the past behind and Pakistan get a ton of help on growing her economy and defense needs.

This meeting is much different than any meeting any Pakistani leader has ever had in Washington. This is one growing and to be a regional power, meeting with the only super power to form a partnership for shared goals and vision

Its time that Pakistani nation stands behind NS and let him finish his term. You ENTIRE military leadership is behind him right now, unanimously. That ALSO has never happened

no, just no!
tell me if you were on the lm board would you rather prefer a 5-8 billon order from pakistan or a 12-15 billion from india? i admire your passion and enthusiasm for pakistan but theres one word your missing out here. reality.


if pakistan wants a 5th gen fighter then either the tai tfx or the j31 is the only solution, and if you have enough money then the flg 2020 with saab is the only solution.

 

[Viper0011.]

no, just no!
tell me if you were on the lm board would you rather prefer a 5-8 billon order from pakistan or a 12-15 billion from india? i admire your passion and enthusiasm for pakistan but theres one word your missing out here. reality.
.

There is NOTHING anyone can do to change Indian members inferiority complex!!! This shiit right here is NOT about India. Pakistan has a LOT of influence that the US now and will need in the future. So they are about to reestablish their relations with Pakistan. Only with a different Pakistan that is a growing economy an emerging market and brings about influence and business opportunity.

So no one gives a rats as* about India's "hurt feelings", its like an Indian movie. The lovers feeling get hurt a LOT. The US, like India, has her strategic interests beyond India.

If I was in the LM's board, I would do what the Government of the United States tells me to do, period. If I take your stupid example, that means, the Chinese were paying the US billions when sanctions were placed. So really, who would the LM have? $ 12-15 billion from India or $ 40-50 billion from China??? Your inferiority and new money mentality of course won't understand that. The US, despite earning many more billions from China, refused to sell anything to the Chinese. Period. So when LM is told to sell $ 5 billion worth of JSF's to Pakistan in 2022 or 2024, THAT is what LM would do!!!

Learn how defense procurement and contracting works before just writing about money that India has. I'd start to pay off the high debt that India has, vs. coming on here and boasting about this "so much money", when 600 MILLION Indian citizens don't have proper bathrooms to use and proper beds to sleep on. Stick to the topic and let's not boast. The reality, when written, upsets you guys from India.

 

[Blue Marlin]

There is NOTHING anyone can do to change Indian members inferiority complex!!! This shiit right here is NOT about India. Pakistan has a LOT of influence that the US now and will need in the future. So they are about to reestablish their relations with Pakistan. Only with a different Pakistan that is a growing economy an emerging market and brings about influence and business opportunity.

does pakistan have more than the US? agreed pakistan does have more influence than india, thats the only benefit and thoses countries that pakistan does benefit is not waelthy enough to procure advanced american weapons. dont even think about mentioning gulf countries, the US has as much influence as pakistan, if not more. oil prices dont fall because they want to compete with the US shale.

So no one gives a rats as* about India's "hurt feelings", its like an Indian movie. The lovers feeling get hurt a LOT. The US, like India, has her strategic interests beyond India.

this part of the quote is how you hate india, no comment.

If I was in the LM's board, I would do what the Government of the United States tells me to do, period. If I take your stupid example, that means, the Chinese were paying the US billions when sanctions were placed. So really, who would the LM have? $ 12-15 billion from India or $ 40-50 billion from China??? Your inferiority and new money mentality of course won't understand that. The US, despite earning many more billions from China, refused to sell anything to the Chinese. Period. So when LM is told to sell $ 5 billion worth of JSF's to Pakistan in 2022 or 2024, THAT is what LM would do!!!

i know lm would do as the government says. how else did pakistan get the f16 blk 52. it was a government to government deal, LM took the order upon request of the government and fulfilled it. the next part about how china does 40-50 billion with lm is just a fantasy, the us does not sell weapons to china. well not publicly anyway.

Learn how defense procurement and contracting works before just writing about money that India has. I'd start to pay off the high debt that India has, vs. coming on here and boasting about this "so much money", when 600 MILLION Indian citizens don't have proper bathrooms to use and proper beds to sleep on. Stick to the topic and let's not boast. The reality, when written, upsets you guys from India.

ok you pakistani calm down! why the hell are you bringing in bathroom in this? you should stop giving guns to any tom,di*k and harry. that includes the police.

do you know how procurement work between the Us and pakistan? if so then please to share.

oh and you should stick to the topic here and stop bringing in lame toilet joke and stop trying to call me indian. when i was new to the forum you called me pakistani, now im indian!? if you must know in British. im in china for 2 weeks. hence the flag change. but i will be indian in November.

@waz theres something wrong his poor guy, can you please for the love of god tell him im not indian, and tell him to keep his filth to himself. thanks

 

[waz]

@Viper0011. Bro the guy is British, and no not British Indian either.

India and Israel will lobby hard to block such a sale.

Much of what you said has merit but I'm sorry India has no leverage over the US when it comes to weapons sales to Pakistan. In actual fact the US does the complete opposite. Also regarding the Chinese and Pakistan, again this has been the case for decades and the US is fine with it. Although the point about advanced weaponry being blocked due to the relationship is true, unless restrictions could be imposed. The block 52's have such restrictions.