PAF Should Go For The F 35---A Coupe De Grace

[Blue Marlin]

well @Viper0011. you heard it from him.
cheers Waz, appreciated

 

[MastanKhan]

Guys n Gals need to watch "Dogfights of the Future." I have pasted the link below.

dogfights of the future - YouTube

Awesome knowledge base of technology and tactics.

Hi,

Thank you for the link---. The information about the B1 bomber with BVR's was written in a work of Fiction by Dale Brown some 25 + years ago---a pretty much similar scenario----where the B1 is loaded with smart BVR's---coming to the rescue of other aircraft.

Many of the stuff that was fiction 30-40 years ago and fools like @Bossman argued about are being actually exposed to the public----which means that they were operational 5 to 15 years ago.

The good ideas are there---you have to sell the idea and you have to have someone who has VISION and is a BELIEVER that something different can be done---which means that the believer has to be the same caliber as that of the one bringing in the idea.

But when fools like @Bossman are in leadership position---great ideas are shunned.

 

[cloud4000]

@Viper0011.
Much of what you said has merit but I'm sorry India has no leverage over the US when it comes to weapons sales to Pakistan. In actual fact the US does the complete opposite. Also regarding the Chinese and Pakistan, again this has been the case for decades and the US is fine with it. Although the point about advanced weaponry being blocked due to the relationship is true, unless restrictions could be imposed. The block 52's have such restrictions.

You are correct. Certain weapons are blocked while others are available. Pakistan was allowed to purchase second-hand F-16s. Recently, Pakistan has signed a contract for the purchase of AH-1Z attack helicopters, hellfire missiles, etc. Pakistan will also receive drones too. It seems weapons that specifically deal with counter-insurgency.

 

[Transhumanist]

I do love discussions like this. How is it that every-time PDF discusses the US or US equipment, no American members chime in and give their take? It's almost as if they collectively go, "ah crap, here they go again with their duplicity. They hate us until they want something from us."

First you want to get closer to China and leave the US behind or reduce your defense relationship and dependence on the US, I've seen that stance so many times here before. Now you want to retain the US and opt for its newest front-line aircraft, knowing full well that there would be supply-chain security concerns if Pak-US relations soured... and that this simple wont happen?

It's odd. This duplicity is odd. This lack of concrete thoughts on the nature, directional trend or wanted direction of Pakistani-US relations is odd. It's odd that no Americans never chime in when their nation or its equipment is the topic, other than when an American member initiates the discussion. Well, it's amusing to me anyway. I suppose being consistently inconsistent in ones views, to the point of dissonance, is still a measure of consistency.

Given the on-again, off-again nature of Pak-US relations, I can't see the F-35 in Pakistani colors anytime soon.

...

Still, this reflection and its irony aside, the F-35 is a good aircraft:

*This is our AM-1"

The first Lockheed Martin F-35A aircraft for Norway takes off from Naval Air Station Fort Worth Joint Reserve Base on Oct. 6, with Lockheed Martin test pilot Bill Gigliotti at the controls.

It's replacing our F-16s on a 1-1 basis. 52 total:

Yeah, that's right give her a tune-up.

@SvenSvensonov where the heck are you (I can't auto tag you either. Is your account valid? Are you still a member here? Don't answer, you wont anyway. I already know the answer to these questions)? Let's get some American views in here. They never surface when they're the subject, it's always foreigners discussing their nation, policies and equipment.

 

[Indus Falcon]

US will not sell the F-35 to Gulf states. So it's highly doubtful it will be offered to Pakistan even if it's requested.

Oh yes they will. Wait and see.

 

[MastanKhan]

I do love discussions like this. How is it that every-time PDF discusses the US or US equipment, no American members chime in and give their take? It's almost as if they collectively go, "ah crap, here they go again with their duplicity. They hate us until they want something from us."

First you want to get closer to China and leave the US behind or reduce your defense relationship and dependence on the US, I've seen that stance so many times here before. Now you want to retain the US and opt for its newest front-line aircraft, knowing full well that there would be supply-chain security concerns if Pak-US relations soured... and that this simple wont happen?

It's odd. This duplicity is odd. This lack of concrete thoughts on the nature, directional trend or wanted direction of Pakistani-US relations is odd. It's odd that no Americans never chime in when their nation or its equipment is the topic, other than when an American member initiates the discussion. Well, it's amusing to me anyway. I suppose being consistently inconsistent in ones views, to the point of dissonance, is still a measure of consistency.

Given the on-again, off-again nature of Pak-US relations, I can't see the F-35 in Pakistani colors anytime soon.

...

Still, this reflection and its irony aside, the F-35 is a good aircraft:

*This is our AM-1"

The first Lockheed Martin F-35A aircraft for Norway takes off from Naval Air Station Fort Worth Joint Reserve Base on Oct. 6, with Lockheed Martin test pilot Bill Gigliotti at the controls.

It's replacing our F-16s on a 1-1 basis. 52 total:

Yeah, that's right give her a tune-up.

@SvenSvensonov where the heck are you (I can't auto tag you either. Is your account valid? Are you still a member here? Don't answer, you wont anyway. I already know the answer to these questions)? Let's get some American views in here. They never surface when they're the subject, it's always foreigners discussing their nation, policies and equipment.

Hi,

The U S was Pakistan's first love affair-----. The relation between Pakistan and the U S is a lover's quarrel---from the highs of the U 2 era and the Canberra electronic surveillance plane to the downside after the sanctions---then up again after 9/11----and then down again after Osama---then U S scraping back to gain some footage one more time after the onslaught of ISIS----but this time the leverage is gone---.

The only problem that Pakistan has is that Nawaz Shareef is a very weak prime minister----his personality is very weak---he is not confrontational like Musharraf----Nawaz prefers to beg and plead his case-----..

A strong person like Musharraf at this time----would have run circles around the U S regime at this time---.

 

[cloud4000]

The only problem that Pakistan has is that Nawaz Shareef is a very weak prime minister----his personality is very weak---he is not confrontational like Musharraf----Nawaz prefers to beg and plead his case-----..

A strong person like Musharraf at this time----would have run circles around the U S regime at this time---.

Musharraf "a strong person?" Zia-ul-Haq was a strong person, Musharraf is a pushover in comparison. He literally gave the US a blank check when confronted with an ultimatum.

How can someone overthrown by a bunch of lawyers be considered strong?

 

[Viper0011.]

does pakistan have more than the US? The US has as much influence as pakistan, if not more. oil prices dont fall because they want to compete with the US shale.

This part of the quote is how you hate india, no comment.

The next part about how china does 40-50 billion with lm is just a fantasy, the us does not sell weapons to china. well not publicly anyway.

Ok you pakistani calm down! why the hell are you bringing in bathroom in this? you should stop giving guns to any tom,di*k and harry. that includes the police.

Do you know how procurement work between the Us and pakistan? if so then please to share.

oh and you should stick to the topic here and stop bringing in lame toilet joke and stop trying to call me indian. when i was new to the forum you called me pakistani, now im indian!? if you must know in British. im in china for 2 weeks. hence the flag change. but i will be indian in November.

Ok, so to a very emotional post I went through, I am sorry I hurt your feelings. Grow some thick skin and act like a real man mate. Life is too difficult out there, you got to be strong to handle this little posts. For my part, I am sorry about calling you an Indian, you almost brought up all facts that I deal with the Indian community members all day long. Now here are your answers:

1) I don't hate India. I actually admire her growth and community / team work that Indians present. I do hate some Indian members' posts on here who actually just write silly posts for show off and there is that constant theme "India has more money", "India is the shiit". Well, not really and doesn't matter. Specially when we do Into-Pak scenarios, Indian whatever, whatever doesn't pose a whole lot of strategic impact on Pakistan's defensive posture. So that's a different topic all together.

2) China WOULD be doing $ 40 billion worth of defense deals if the US government hadn't put sanctions on it. Remember the Jet engines, Radars, the Super 7, and even some basic cooperation was going on on twin engine jets and all got disrupted due to sanctions. Yes, I know and even my dog knows the Chinese don't buy weapons from the US. But 20 years ago, it was different. The Chinese had a LOT of interest in the American weapons systems and they wanted to buy TOT or even assemble versions designed for them. The point I was making was that when it comes to national priorities, the US government will make their call to provide Pakistan with whatever they want to. There is no Indian factor involved when its the US interest requiring such thing. Period. This is a fact and proven many times.

3) Tom, Di*ck and Harry in Police need to protect people. Guns are used for self defense also. I back the Republican party's stance on it and agree with NRA's guidelines. You can't shut down an entire industry because there are some lunatics out there. You need to remove those lunatics / psycho people from the main stream and id them, so they WON'T get guns. So this is more complex that you'd understand to be honest. Open up a new thread to talk about this.

4) I think we are in the same business then? I may be a Colombian in two weeks and then Bogotan in the week after due to travel. Nature of the beast man. Gotta pay for the Sandwich I eat at night you know I'm sayin'???

Musharraf "a strong person?" Zia-ul-Haq was a strong person, Musharraf is a pushover in comparison. He literally gave the US a blank check when confronted with an ultimatum.

How can someone overthrown by a bunch of lawyers be considered strong?

Your post is VERY deep and worth a million. But to be frank, I've said similar things and posed similar questions. This forum is run really weird. There are times when you feel like people are using Pakistani flags just because.

You ask them questions like the one above, and the answers NEVER come as "Pakistanis", they come as to who's their personal favorite and no care for Pakistan majority of the time.

You ask the same thing to an Indian member, he'll answer it putting India first and then himself / his party or favorite politicians or rulers. Its opposite for Pakistanis, sadly.

I do love discussions like this. How is it that every-time PDF discusses the US or US equipment, no American members chime in and give their take? It's almost as if they collectively go, "ah crap, here they go again with their duplicity. They hate us until they want something from us."
.

You hit it right on the head. This is exactly how we feel. And the Pakistanis prove it to us. How many thank you's have we heard from the Pakistanis, after we've been giving them billions since their creation or shortly thereafter? None!!! Who has damaged the heaven called Pakistan on earth? Almost every Pakistani member on here will tell you "the US" in a chorus!!!!

And I spend time here because of my personal reasons and time in Pakistan and I try to tell these people to follow a SYSTEM, learn and implement Democracy and support it and I get chastised. So just like that, every American member will think exactly how you said it. Oh crap, here we go again!!!

I think Pakistanis need to appreciate a little of how much the US has done for them. A few little nice posts here, will go a long way. China isn't the only thing till the end of the world. The US has and can do a lot for Pakistan, but there needs to be a mutual understanding, starting for some courtesy, thank you or something, for things that Pakistan did get from the US and those helped out in the hour of need.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Ok, so to a very emotional post I went through, I am sorry I hurt your feelings. Grow some thick skin and act like a real man mate. Life is too difficult out there, you got to be strong to handle this little posts. For my part, I am sorry about calling you an Indian, you almost brought up all facts that I deal with the Indian community members all day long. Now here are your answers:

1) I don't hate India. I actually admire her growth and community / team work that Indian present. I do hate some Indian members posts on here who actually just write silly posts for show off and there is that constant theme "India has more money", "India is the shiit". Well, not really and doesn't matter. Specially when we do Into-Pak scenarios, Indian whatever, whatever doesn't have a whole lot of strategic impact on Pakistan's defensive posture. So that's a different topic all together.

2) China WOULD be doing $ 40 billion worth of defense deals if the US government hadn't put sanctions on it. Remember the Jet engines, Radars, the Super 7, and even some basic cooperation was going on on twin engine jets and all got disrupted due to sanctions. Yes, I know and even my dog knows the Chinese don't buy weapons from the US. But 20 years ago, it was different. The Chinese had a LOT of interest in the American weapons systems and they wanted to buy TOT or even assemble versions designed for them. The point I was making was that when it comes to national priorities, the US government will make their call to provide Pakistan with whatever they want to. There is no Indian factor involved when its the US interest requiring such thing. Period. This is a fact and proven many times.

3) Tom, Di*ck and Harry in Police need to protect people. Guns are used for self defense also. I back the Republican party's stance on it and agree with NRA's guidelines. You can't shut down an entire industry because there are some lunatics out there. You need to remove those lunatics / psycho people from the main stream and id them, so they WON'T get guns. So this is more complex that you'd understand to be honest. Open up a new thread to talk about this.

4) I think we are in the same business then? I may be a Colombian in two weeks and then Bogotan in the week after due to travel. Nature of the beast man. Gotta pay for the Sandwich I eat at night you know I'm sayin'???



Your post is VERY deep and worth a million. But to be frank, I've said similar things and posed similar questions. This forum is run really weird. There are times when you feel like people are using Pakistani flags just because.

You ask them questions like the one above, and the answers NEVER come as "Pakistanis", they come as to who's their personal favorite and no care for Pakistan majority of the time.

You ask the same thing to an Indian member, he'll answer it putting India first and then himself / his party or favorite politicians or rulers. Its opposite for Pakistanis, sadly.



You hit it right on the head. This is exactly how we feel. And the Pakistanis prove it to us. How many thank you's have we heard from the Pakistanis, after we've been giving them billions since their creation or shortly thereafter? None!!! Who has damaged the heaven called Pakistan on earth? Almost every Pakistani member on here will tell you "the US" in a chorus!!!!

And I spend time here because of my personal reasons and time in Pakistan and I try to tell these people to follow a SYSTEM, learn and implement Democracy and support it and I get chastised. So just like that, every American member will think exactly how you said it. Oh crap, here we go again!!!

I think Pakistanis need to appreciate a little of how much the US has done for them. A few little nice posts here, will go a long way. China isn't the only thing till the end of the world. The US has and can do a lot for Pakistan, but there needs to be a mutual understanding, starting for some courtesy, thank you or something, for things that Pakistan did get from the US and those helped out in the hour of need.

very well written and honest analysis.

 

[MastanKhan]

You hit it right on the head. This is exactly how we feel. And the Pakistanis prove it to us. How many thank you's have we heard from the Pakistanis, after we've been giving them billions since their creation or shortly thereafter? None!!! Who has damaged the heaven called Pakistan on earth? Almost every Pakistani member on here will tell you "the US" in a chorus!!!!

And I spend time here because of my personal reasons and time in Pakistan and I try to tell these people to follow a SYSTEM, learn and implement Democracy and support it and I get chastised. So just like that, every American member will think exactly how you said it. Oh crap, here we go again!!!

I think Pakistanis need to appreciate a little of how much the US has done for them. A few little nice posts here, will go a long way. China isn't the only thing till the end of the world. The US has and can do a lot for Pakistan, but there needs to be a mutual understanding, starting for some courtesy, thank you or something, for things that Pakistan did get from the US and those helped out in the hour of need.

Hi,

Pakistan fckd---because Musharraf being the general that he was did not make the right deal----. He let the U S off cheap----what is a billion dollars for Pakistan for the losses it had suffered----.

Musharraf should have agreed to 6 air bases instead of 5----but should have stuck to at least 5 billion dollars cash upfront----2 sqdrn's of F16 with all the goodies and 2 billion dollars upfront every years for the services provided and anytime the money is stopped---the services would stop and will re-start with a 100% penalty paid up front.

Musharraf could fight for the cause---but not for the deal---. That is where Pakistan let the U S off the hook.

Now look at the afghans---they are the ultimate car sales people----had the U S spend 65 Billion dollar for their military that ran away at Kunduz ad is going to run away again----. And the ultimate superstar sales personal---the afghan warlord----ripped the U S bank account so hard that the U S does not know from which end it has been had----.

And what has the U S given pakistan---maybe 13 billion dollars for its war on terror and dumped all the terrorists in our backyard----.

At least the afghans know how to sell their services----.

My countrymen are totally fckd up---they could not make the sale in front of the U S at the sacrifices that Pakistan had given due to the fck ups of the U S Military-----.

If it was me---I would have been on the CNN / Foxnews and talked about how screwed up the U S military generals had been on the verge of being nincompoops----. Well the result is in front of the world to see now----Tommy Franks and John Abizaid the biggest bulls-ht artist of them all---.

How the U S military had intentionally screwed up by letting all the terrorists and Taliban escape from afghaistn in a pre-planned manner.

 

[Viper0011.]

Hi,

Pakistan fckd---because Musharraf being the general that he was did not make the right deal----. He let the U S off cheap----what is a billion dollars for Pakistan for the losses it had suffered----.

Musharraf should have agreed to 6 air bases instead of 5----but should have stuck to at least 5 billion dollars cash upfront----2 sqdrn's of F16 with all the goodies and 2 billion dollars upfront every years for the services provided and anytime the money is stopped---the services would stop and will re-start with a 100% penalty paid up front.

Musharraf could fight for the cause---but not for the deal---. That is where Pakistan let the U S off the hook.

Now look at the afghans---they are the ultimate car sales people----had the U S spend 65 Billion dollar for their military that ran away at Kunduz ad is going to run away again----. And the ultimate superstar sales personal---the afghan warlord----ripped the U S bank account so hard that the U S does not know from which end it has been had----.

And what has the U S given pakistan---maybe 13 billion dollars for its war on terror and dumped all the terrorists in our backyard----.

At least the afghans know how to sell their services----.

My countrymen are totally fckd up---they could not make the sale in front of the U S at the sacrifices that Pakistan had given due to the fck ups of the U S Military-----.

If it was me---I would have been on the CNN / Foxnews and talked about how screwed up the U S military generals had been on the verge of being nincompoops----. Well the result is in front of the world to see now----Tommy Franks and John Abizaid the biggest bulls-ht artist of them all---.

How the U S military had intentionally screwed up by letting all the terrorists and Taliban escape from afghaistn in a pre-planned manner.

Are there actually proven facts and documents to provide proofs (e-mails, leaks, etc) or are you just gossiping? Because, frankly, the story sounds impressive, but lacks a LOT of content. The Afghans didn't have the US spend $ 65 billion on them. No such thing existed, the US saw their behavior coming but wanted to give them a chance. That's why as they requested for -16's block 52, the US, instead gave them new WWII type propeller planes for ground support. Not even should mounted SAMs were given due to the risk assessment done on these people and their loyalty to these crazy terrorists and war lords.

So, again, if there are proofs to see, it would be nice. But other than that, its hear-say. I can say I am going to be the king of the UK. But the real fact may be that I've never really been to the UK.......the fact changes the situation drastically.

 

[MastanKhan]

Quietly classifying US spending on Afghanistan - Al Jazeera ...

Quietly classifying US spending on Afghanistan - Al Jazeera English


The Man Who Keeps Tabs On U.S. Money Spent In Afghanistan : Parallels : NPR



65 billion dollars to build up afghan military

 

[haviZsultan]

Really I am sick of American weapons... come with a lot of conditions. Too much politics involved and a severe lack of trust. We should look for new allies. US is falling-hopefully will fall anyway.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,
OH---how I wish I had some spare cash---I would be in Pakistan---and start up a revolution.

 

[chocolatelyhero]

Why you suggest JH7B???





Recently i reviewed an article F-16 vs F-35, Sorry i forgot to save that link otherwise i shared it here.
F-16 won the fight.

If you are considering stealth than we should go for PAFWA T-50 5th generation Russian stealth fighter

Thats right We should remove our dependency from US completely