PAF revamped Air Defense Alert System

[Inception-06]

Yes, few pics are also posted in this thread

Coming back to the bottom line, like Wajahat Saeed Khan always saying: I think that only the best, economical and operational capable units of the HQ-2B and Crotale were selected for the future service, while rest landed in the museum or in the spare parts stockpile. So all Members are right, some systems are retired as the pictures of the museums have shown and the best will remain because they fill some gaps and are so old that they are not so easy to be jammed (HQ-2B for example).

 

[Tps43]

Crotale's were upgraded to Crotale 4000 years ago as per news reports which quoted senior PAF officials.

I understand that you mean to say negotiations were held with Thales in 2011-12 and price was hindering upgrades.

What happened later? Were Crotale's upgraded further?

We gave it a break because our Spada weren't getting A cat operational. Till 2016 case was being reconsidered again and was set as 2nd priority ,1st one is to replace those MPDR's after them comes Crotales.

 

[Inception-06]

We gave it a break because our Spada weren't getting A cat operational. Till 2016 case was being reconsidered again and was set as 2nd priority ,1st one is to replace those MPDR's after them comes Crotales.

Could please sheet more light in the SPADA case ?and what are the MPDRs ?

 

[Tps43]

Coming back to the bottom line, like Wajahat Saeed Khan always saying: I think that only the best, economical and operational capable units of the HQ-2B and Crotale were selected for the future service, while rest landed in the museum or in the spare parts stockpile. So all Members are right, some systems are retired as the pictures of the museums have shown and the best will remain because they fill some gaps and are so old that they are not so easy to be jammed (HQ-2B for example).

Yes True Most Of Hq 2b are retired.
There are 11 SAM sqn In Paf several of them also having diff flights in diff cities out of them 5 are cortales and 6 remaining are spada all these sqn's are also equipped with MANPADS (MISTRAL) 1 crotale/spada battery = 4 mistral batteries with not more 5 min to 3 hours standby time for all the systems and many of them are performing round the clock duties. Many of MOU sqn's were converted into SAM ones.

 

[khanasifm]

Do you have a copy of PAF history 1999-2013 ? Or pdf.

Actual book there is no pdf it's too Much work to scan it

 

[Tps43]

Could please sheet more light in the SPADE case ?and what are the MPDRs ?

Regarding Spada there was connectivity issue between the battery itself basically linkage between AD and technical setup of equipment for minimum 3 years since we got them , Italians were also confused regarding this problem so Paf officers and tech went through many courses in Italy and Italians worked in Pakistan to fully operationalize the system anyhow It was resolved to some extant in 2015 that is the reason crotales are being kept in loop because they have no issues regarding operations.
MPDR's are low level radars connected with our mission control centers/wings,We got them in 1970,s and 80,s they are german made from Siemens extremely reliable but have crossed there age quite while ago we have planned to replace them with new systems options were american,german,chinese . Trails of Chinese were held and were rejected , Paf is more inclined towards germans but Americans and chinese both are still pressing for there own systems.
Actually Paf has got worst experience with chinese one's due to YLC 2 episode and TPS 77 literally gave them eyes but they dont want american sys due to fear of sanctions and also some other technical issues . CAS announced to replace MPDR's during his tenure lets see what happens in the end.

 

[khanasifm]

Regarding Spada there was connectivity issue between the battery itself basically linkage between AD and technical setup of equipment for minimum 3 years since we got them , Italians were also confused regarding this problem so Paf officers and tech went through many courses in Italy and Italians worked in Pakistan to fully operationalize the system anyhow It was resolved to some extant in 2015 that is the reason crotales are being kept in loop because they have no issues regarding operations.
MPDR's are low level radars connected with our mission control centers/wings,We got them in 1970,s and 80,s they are german made from Siemens extremely reliable but have crossed there age quite while ago we have planned to replace them with new systems options were american,german,chinese . Trails of Chinese were held and were rejected , Paf is more inclined towards germans but Americans and chinese both are still pressing for there own systems.
Actually Paf has got worst experience with chinese one's due to YLC 2 episode and TPS 77 literally gave them eyes but they dont want american sys due to fear of sanctions and also some other technical issues . CAS announced to replace MPDR's during his tenure lets see what happens in the end.

Paf history 1999-2013 talks about ylc 2 it was identified as one of the radar along with fps117 (paf then like newer tps77 version of it) for induction based on study for paf for 2000 and beyond

Ylc-2 was inducted during crises with India in early 2000 a single radar was used for 2/3 years and then paf was satisfied and order more Chinese vendor also worked with paf to integrate it in of c4isr/radar network it was prt of the deal when paf ordered it formally

Not sure what issues with ylc2 are you referring to in fact it was delivered due Indian crises in 2 days from request to delivery and made operational at a site in another few days ( the first one )


mpdr are German so repeat customers ?? Commonality and existing infrastructure plus rebuilt facility at PAC

 

[Tps43]

Paf history 1999-2013 talks about ylc 2 it was identified as one of the radar along with fps117 (paf then like newer tps77 version of it) for induction based on study for paf for 2000 and beyond

Ylc-2 was inducted during crises with India in early 2000 a single radar was used for 2/3 years and then paf was satisfied and order more Chinese vendor also worked with paf to integrate it in of c4isr/radar network it was prt of the deal when paf ordered it formally

Not sure what issues with ylc2 are you referring to in fact it was delivered due Indian crises in 2 days from request to delivery and made operational at a site in another few days ( the first one )

You cant ask from any Serving PAF AD officer about YLC 2.
During standoff TPS 43G took all work load but to Check YLC 2 capabilities by locating it at a famous location and it performed below average there and it was being discussed at the time that this YLC 2 is probably a proto type.
In one case our chinese friends I respect them fully but they tried to bribe our senior official to approve the chinese low level radars who altogether were disappointment. Coming back to YLC 2 they replaced the famous FPS-20 ones and as of current only 2 YLC 2 sqn who were extensively modified are working independently all other sqn's are operationally under GMCC's due to being unreliable.
I dont want to get bashed but there something with ZDK also.
Chinese brothers are improving but still there's longway so thats why we r not investing too much in there C4ISR

Paf history 1999-2013 talks about ylc 2 it was identified as one of the radar along with fps117 (paf then like newer tps77 version of it) for induction based on study for paf for 2000 and beyond

Ylc-2 was inducted during crises with India in early 2000 a single radar was used for 2/3 years and then paf was satisfied and order more Chinese vendor also worked with paf to integrate it in of c4isr/radar network it was prt of the deal when paf ordered it formally

Not sure what issues with ylc2 are you referring to in fact it was delivered due Indian crises in 2 days from request to delivery and made operational at a site in another few days ( the first one )


mpdr are German so repeat customers ?? Commonality and existing infrastructure plus rebuilt facility at PAC

BTW paf was not completely satisfied but they had to place orders due to some confidential reasons.

 

[khanasifm]

You cant ask from any Serving PAF AD officer about YLC 2.
During standoff TPS 43G took all work load but to Check YLC 2 capabilities by locating it at a famous location and it performed below average there and it was being discussed at the time that this YLC 2 is probably a proto type.
In one case our chinese friends I respect them fully but they tried to bribe our senior official to approve the chinese low level radars who altogether were disappointment. Coming back to YLC 2 they replaced the famous FPS-20 ones and as of current only 2 YLC 2 sqn who were extensively modified are working independently all other sqn's are operationally under GMCC's due to being unreliable.
I dont want to get bashed but there something with ZDK also.
Chinese brothers are improving but still there's longway so thats why we r not investing too much in there C4ISR


BTW paf was not completely satisfied but they had to place orders due to some confidential reasons.

All xxxx sqn or 4001,4002... have tps77 and all xxx 401,402.... have tpg43 or ylc-2 radars per history i do not put anything on forum if it's not in official paf open source report, book etc

He said, she said ..... who knows ... move on

Paf also has ylc-6 equivalent of mpdr as well as ylc-2, total number bought look up paf history

 

[Tps43]

All xxxx sqn or 4001,4002... have tps77 and all xxx 401,402.... have tpg43 or ylc-2 radars per history i do not put anything on forum if it's not in official paf open source report, book etc

He said, she said ..... who knows ... move on

Paf also has ylc-6 equivalent of mpdr as well as ylc-2, total number bought look up paf history

well I didnt claim that I was told by someone , I worked with them for a short period thats why I know it other then that yes we should move on thats why I was talking about future procurement of LLR's and was giving reference to history.
Yes All xxxx sqn 4091,4092.... have tps77 and all xxx 401...406....41X have tps43g and YLC2 and YLC 6
I have rough idea regarding numbers , I know all sqn's names loc's and status so total numbers for me dont really matter much.
If at any point I am wrong u can double check me or can correct me out but as far as all my posts goes I am pretty sure about them.
YLC 6 are not in much quantity btw but they worked much much better than those YLC 2

 

[Basel]

I had written nothing else, read the whole topic, please !




@Signalian check that, its the third time that I see a Pakistani SA-2 picture, it seems that some units are still in service!

Here is the first one that I saw!

View attachment 426141 View attachment 426143

It's possible that few upgraded SA-2s might be in service

well I didnt claim that I was told by someone , I worked with them for a short period thats why I know it other then that yes we should move on thats why I was talking about future procurement of LLR's and was giving reference to history.
Yes All xxxx sqn 4091,4092.... have tps77 and all xxx 401...406....41X have tps43g and YLC2 and YLC 6
I have rough idea regarding numbers , I know all sqn's names loc's and status so total numbers for me dont really matter much.
If at any point I am wrong u can double check me or can correct me out but as far as all my posts goes I am pretty sure about them.
YLC 6 are not in much quantity btw but they worked much much better than those YLC 2

Will PAF look into new Giraffe AESA radar series??

 

[Tps43]

It's possible that few upgraded SA-2s might be in service


Will PAF look into new Giraffe AESA radar series??

maybe who knows but Siemens have got more chances.

 

[khanasifm]

paf ordered Saab vs zdk it tells you something Saab is far better not to say zdk has issues but may be Saab brings capability that out shines zdk or paf has more money to spend and who knows ... just guessing here

 

[BATMAN]

maybe who knows but Siemens have got more chances.

SIEMENS is also a corrupt company. They have history of bribing in civil tenders.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Considering we have demonstrative models of high altitude defensive missiles suprising we have not gone ahead to make a Local Pakistani version , considering all the knowledge we have in Radar and Tracking technology

A fairly large system but one that Pakistan should have at least attempted to reverse engineer

Same missile with modern sensors / chip and software system would have made the missile more adaptable to modern times

Suprised that this option was never entertained

We have a fully functional Missile sitting in Museum and we can literally make the whole modal upto 2017 standards in Pakistan , the remaing portion is just enhancement in it's radar system and tracking systems


Beautiful Missile just need some love and care and upgrade for 2017