PAF revamped Air Defense Alert System

[Tps43]

This is nearly $7 billion U.S. right here:

Another 78 cases worth Rs1.53tr were pointed out as having ‘weak internal financial controls’, while Rs730bn in ‘overpayments’ and ‘misappropriation of public funds’ were placed on the record.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1354438​

But who can get them for paf and navy.
MOI and MOFA has soo much irregularities that all our issues can be resolved for tge mean time.

what about these?
FPS-89/100
Type 514
Thomson-CSF ATC
Condor
AR-1/6 Radar
AR-15
FPS-6
FPS-20
Plessey HF-200

Only the first one is in service as per my knowledge but they are merged into diff sqn's/wings so we don't count them as diff sqn's .

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

But who can get them for paf and navy.
MOI and MOFA has soo much irregularities that all our issues can be resolved for tge mean time.

It really gets me. There's being poor, which is a fact, but being poor doesn't necessarily need to preclude the PAF from 4.5 gen fighters. If there's $10 bn being pilfered each year, one can dedicate $2.5 bn for defence and the rest for health and education. Over a decade that $2.5 bn is $25 bn. It's a country of 200 million people, but our fiscal situation would make it seem like we're all living in tents and riding donkeys.

 

[Mentee]

Americans have no leverage on our old f 16's only on block52 that too for just another 2 years as that condition is also going to end .And our f 16's can be linked with zdk . Zdk's sensor was a lil bit of issue thats why saab was preferred but we cannot underestimate zdk at all

2 things were taken into account while placing an order for the saab

1 source codes
2 the need of diversifying the aerial assets

 

[Tps43]

It really gets me. There's being poor, which is a fact, but being poor doesn't necessarily need to preclude the PAF from 4.5 gen fighters. If there's $10 bn being pilfered each year, one can dedicate $2.5 bn for defence and the rest for health and education. Over a decade that $2.5 bn is $25 bn. It's a country of 200 million people, but our fiscal situation would make it seem like we're all living in tents and riding donkeys.

Yes even if we start to take 100 rs on average from each Pakistan we get 20bn rs each year and our small defence needs can be filled but alas.

2 things were taken into account while placing an order for the saab

1 source codes
2 the need of diversifying the aerial assets

That's why we have zdk

 

[Mentee]

That's why we have zdk

weren't yiu implying something else

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It's worth remembering that Sweden isn't in NATO. In other words, Saab, while Western technology, isn't necessarily tied to the same restrictions. There are cases where it is (e.g. where U.S/U.K subassemblies are involved), but in other areas, such as Saab's proprietary radar technology, it may be more liberal.

For example, Saab's own marketing material clearly states that the Erieye can be paired with "Real-time in-house data link dedicated for AEW&C or NATO Link 16 and Link11." Saab is basically saying that if you have a proprietary data-link or are in need of one, that can be paired to the Erieye. And unless there is a sudden surge of Western fighters actually coming, the PAF probably ordered 3 more Erieye AEW&C with the intention of linking to the JF-17s.

https://saab.com/globalassets/publications-pdfs/eds/radar/airborne/erieye_en_2013.pdf

 

[Tps43]

IIRC Siemens was absorbed into Airbus DS's radar division, which was then spun-off into Hensoldt, which inherited most if not all of Airbus DS' radar, avionics, EW/ECM and optronics work. Hensoldt is based out of Germany and I can confirm that the Siemens support team dealing with Pakistan is in Hensoldt and that the company has another team assigned for managing sales to Turkey and Pakistan. Hensoldt also held some kind of marketing thing in Pakistan in May and then something was brought to Pakistan in August.

The shots are from public EXIM logs.

They are here for trails again in Pakistan most probably. I can narrate one incident of mpdr's ,
Once in hot day in south punjab with almost 50 C outside mpdr picked up bogey at 33k feet that too inside our hostile neighbors territory and actually mpdr is not used to see things above at max 15k feet so this it self speaks the capacity of old but reliable sys .

weren't yiu implying something else

I was answering ur question regarding diversity of our AWACS.

It's worth remembering that Sweden isn't in NATO. In other words, Saab, while Western technology, isn't necessarily tied to the same restrictions. There are cases where it is (e.g. where U.S/U.K subassemblies are involved), but in other areas, such as Saab's proprietary radar technology, it may be more liberal.

For example, Saab's own marketing material clearly states that the Erieye can be paired with "Real-time in-house data link dedicated for AEW&C or NATO Link 16 and Link11." Saab is basically saying that if you have a proprietary data-link or are in need of one, that can be paired to the Erieye. And unless there is a sudden surge of Western fighters actually coming, the PAF probably ordered 3 more Erieye AEW&C with the intention of linking to the JF-17s.

https://saab.com/globalassets/publications-pdfs/eds/radar/airborne/erieye_en_2013.pdf

I have one query in my mind should these new AWACS be with old sqn or a new one should be raised at New location?
U are right regarding Sweden that's why they offered us girphen's during sanction period.

@Mentee apna bhai ko light liya hoa hai

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I Beg to differ,Crotales are here currently operational/standby with 5 squadrons.
Talks/work being done to upgrade those crotale batteries by Thales.
Question Might arise why Crotales are still operational? Because they are filling gaps which Spada Cant fullfill,I wont go into further Details.

Something's unclear to me - doesn't the legacy Crotale (that Pakistan uses) have a ceiling in terms of upgrades? IIRC Thales determined that ceiling in the 1990s when it introduced the Crotale NG and VT-1.

Besides changing the land-based fire control radar/command systems and the Crotale's guidance suite, there isn't much else one can do (structurally speaking). The next course would be to switch to a high velocity SAM (ideally with thrust-vectoring) like the VT-1 (or a land-launched HOBS/5th-gen WVRAAM).

I have one query in my mind should these new AWACS be with old sqn or a new one should be raised at New location?
U are right regarding Sweden that's why they offered us girphen's during sanction period.

The way I understood it is that the new Erieyes are being bought to fulfill the PAF's original plan for 6 Erieye AEW&C. At that time, the plan was for the PAF to have 6 Erieye and the PN to have 3 Hawkeye 2000s (integrated to the P-3B). That obviously didn't work out, but you'll notice that the KE/ZDK-03 has been a native to the maritime environment and working in close concert with the PN. Moreover, SAC (via Shahbaz) has the 18 Block-52+ which could benefit from a local Erieye posting.

 

[Tps43]

Something's unclear to me - doesn't the legacy Crotale (that Pakistan uses) have a ceiling in terms of upgrades? IIRC Thales determined that ceiling in the 1990s when it introduced the Crotale NG and VT-1.

Besides changing the land-based fire control radar/command systems and the Crotale's guidance suite, there isn't much else one can do (structurally speaking). The next course would be to switch to a high velocity SAM (ideally with thrust-vectoring) like the VT-1 (or a land-launched HOBS/5th-gen WVRAAM).


The way I understood it is that the new Erieyes are being bought to fulfill the PAF's original plan for 6 Erieye AEW&C. At that time, the plan was for the PAF to have 6 Erieye and the PN to have 3 Hawkeye 2000s (integrated to the P-3B). That obviously didn't work out, but you'll notice that the KE/ZDK-03 has been a native to the maritime environment and working in close concert with the PN. Moreover, SAC (via Shahbaz) has the 18 Block-52+ which could benefit from a local Erieye posting. I think SAC could end up getting a dedicated AEW&C squadron (besides the KE).

That's the beauty of French and crotales they had set the ceiling for upgrades but they are always willing to do upgrades on crotals also paf is interested in upgrading only newer crotals which we got from libya and they were literally untouched . Btw some of its missile related upgrades were also being done by our own KRL a sqn there is there for the same said purpose as its the most well established and oldest sam sqn of paf.

Regarding AWACS I think they should be located in CAC as they r currently without any AWACS , Paf have habit instead of building big sqn relocating them at other locations as well

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That's the beauty of French and crotales they had set the ceiling for upgrades but they are always willing to do upgrades on crotals also paf is interested in upgrading only newer crotals which we got from libya and they were literally untouched . Btw some of its missile related upgrades were also being done by our own KRL a sqn there is there for the same said purpose as its the most well established and oldest sam sqn of paf.

They can basically phase it into a long-term, two-part program. First, get new ground equipment (e.g. FCR, C2 system, etc) and upgrade the existing Crotale missiles. In 10-15 years, swap out the Crotale with new-gen missiles while still keeping the relatively new ground detection and command equipment.

 

[Taygibay]

Max Alt is wrong here, It's in Km actually

... ...
​

It's in m as in meters, mate! *
The pic states 25 000 ft and you meant to correct to m.

25 thousand Km is far out our 160km atmosphere but a
tad short of the 35 000 km geostationary satellites orbit.
Not the most requested range for anti-air defense?

Great day to you and all, Tay.

* I'm very proud of myself with that pun; thoughts to Rita and the B...s.

 

[Mentee]

apna bhai ko light liya hoa hai

yeah just make sure not to get the attention of big biys . I mean your signature might be getting registered on someone's seismograph as we speak right now

 

[Tps43]

yeah just make sure not to get the attention of big biys . I mean your signature might be getting registered on someone's seismograph as we speak right now

Lol no issues I'm under water going undetected till now.

 

[Tps43]

They can basically phase it into a long-term, two-part program. First, get new ground equipment (e.g. FCR, C2 system, etc) and upgrade the existing Crotale missiles. In 10-15 years, swap out the Crotale with new-gen missiles while still keeping the relatively new ground detection and command equipment.

The first phase has already been cleared , Crotales have now got matser control posts with round the clock shifts even if crotales batteries are on standby.

 

[Gryphon]

The first phase has already been cleared , Crotales have now got matser control posts with round the clock shifts even if crotales batteries are on standby.

Are the Crotales also deployed for base defence (like Spada)?

Pak was looking to buy FD-2000 sometime back. I suppose those will go to Army ADC when acquired.

They can basically phase it into a long-term, two-part program. First, get new ground equipment (e.g. FCR, C2 system, etc) and upgrade the existing Crotale missiles. In 10-15 years, swap out the Crotale with new-gen missiles while still keeping the relatively new ground detection and command equipment.

Reminds me of NCES, which has an unidentified customer.