PAF Future Leading Aircraft

[Erroroverload]

It's not the case that all the evil lies in Politicians and bosses of soldiers are angels.
Pakistani society as whole is corrupt.

compared to what our politicians had done to this country, our military men are far better.

 

[friendly_troll96]

 

[Erroroverload]

Hi,

When everyone has an opinion---it is called CHAOS---.

Your posts reflect what you know or don't---.

Every 20 years old pakistani comes on board and re-starts from point zero---without having the training and basics of knowing the mannersism of a flowing discussion.

Sir when every one has an opinion, It is called democracy. And are you advocating that certain people should have or share their opinion and others don't. May be i dont know much about what we are discussing, but i m in the process of learning, same as you when you were in your 20s or 30s.
And by the way you should be polite to other junior members. you dont know that members like me are learning a huge amount of things from members like you, and element of respect has been created for such members like you in our hearts. If you dont agree with what I say put a sensible argument instead of teaching mannerism.

 

[!eon]

compared to what our politicians had done to this country, our military men are far better.

Half in Pakistan's history, Army ruled the country directly, rest through their manufactured proxies.

 

[ghazi768]

Another sob story teller / supporter.

Betaa, khalona nahi mila... tension na lo.. ek do aur dela den ge.. sabar kero..

 

[New World]

imagine had pakistan signed that deal, they could have probably done the same with old mirage2000 what they did with mirage 3/5 rose

unfortunately we got stuck with f-16 whicih though has much bigger potential due to huge spares but is not available due to poor poltical situaiton

IF that deal would have signed, Today PAF wouldn't be looking to replace Mirage 3/5..

 

[Basel]

1980's PAF was advised to buy M2k along with F-16 but they stick with F-16.

in 1990's during US sanctions a deal to buy 40 Mirage 2000-5 was just away from signing but PAF backed off from deal and year or 2 later they signed a deal with France for Rose Program..

in 2000's PAF evaluated Rafale, EFT but Signed again 18 F-16 and now in 2010's PAF is looking to buy a fighter jet to counter same Rafale which a decade ago they rejected/declined to buy...

During 80s due to Afghan war US was willing to sell military equipment and they even propose ToT F-20s but PAF went with F-16 and even turn down M2Ks because at that time it was right decision as M2K was inferior to F-16s at that time and F-16 was better choice due to better multirole specially dog fight capability and it was the answer what USSR could have fielded against Pakistan, what Pakistan miss was ToT of F-20 we should have gone for it by some how arranging funds.

During 90s it was our corrupt rulers who did not let PAF buy decent 4th gen fighter as for M2K5 it was not just corruption, French were also offering them on higher price keeping in view of limited options of PAF in terms of getting new birds.

In 2000 PAF did make a mistake, they should have gone for 36 Rafales (but it was not fully mature platform then) with equipment for JFT along with used MLUed F-16s.

 

[S.Y.A]

During 80s due to Afghan war US was willing to sell military equipment and they even propose ToT F-20s but PAF went with F-16 and even turn down M2Ks because at that time it was right decision as M2K was inferior to F-16s at that time and F-16 was better choice due to better multirole specially dog fight capability and it was the answer what USSR could have fielded against Pakistan, what Pakistan miss was ToT of F-20 we should have gone for it by some how arranging funds.

During 90s it was our corrupt rulers who did not let PAF buy decent 4th gen fighter as for M2K5 it was not just corruption, French were also offering them on higher price keeping in view of limited options of PAF in terms of getting new birds.

In 2000 PAF did make a mistake, they should have gone for 36 Rafales (but it was not fully mature platform then) with equipment for JFT along with used MLUed F-16s.

PN suffered in this way too. According to Adm Iftikhar Sirohey's book, during the late '80s PN negotiated with UK for Type 23s, and were supposed to get it at the same price that UK was getting them. but junejo and his cabinet kept on dragging their feet, and saying that the PN should go with a French option, something or other happened, time ran out or the production ended for type 23s (don't remember what happened, maybe the proposal was shot down by junejo), and PN had to lease the ships from the US. and then had to buy used, 2nd hand crap type 21s later in the '90s when the lease expired.

 

[Storm Force]

IMO

Best Scenari for PAF based on current geo strategic relations ie China mostly

1. PAF should try to acquire 50 J11 fighters from China between 2018 -2025 @ cost of $3 billion spread over next decade ie $300 million dollars a year or $350 million with interst payments

This deal will give PAF/PN the much needed twin engined option that is very much a huge gap in their detterance at what is a very affordable cost

in 2024 PAF should have full evaluation complete of J31 which will become available by 2027 for export.
Thus a deal for 40 J31 fifth generation fighters should signed in 2024 @ $4-5 billion dollars spread over 2025-
2035 . This deal could mean paf GETS first fifth generation fighter in 2026-2027 which imo will before india unless the INDIAN NAVY opt for F35 for their vikrant carrier group in 2018-2019 time frame with delivery in 2024-2025.

The JF17 block 3 delivery of 100 planes will continue betweem 2020-2026 @ cost of $35 million each ie another $3.5 billion

The PAF will then look for fewer falcons as the J11 will bring reach load and loiter time to add a new dimension to your air power


J31 X 40

J11 X 50

ThunderX 200

F16/18/MLU X 65-70

That is relaivelt large but very well balanced fleet

YOU NEED ABOUT $13 BILLION DOLLARSbyween 2020- 20230 to make this happen

 

[MastanKhan]

Betaa, khalona nahi mila... tension na lo.. ek do aur dela den ge.. sabar kero..

Hi,

At 60 plus years of age---I could qualify to be Dad / grand dad to many---so don't go there.

Talk professional---.

During 80s due to Afghan war US was willing to sell military equipment and they even propose ToT F-20s but PAF went with F-16 and even turn down M2Ks because at that time it was right decision as M2K was inferior to F-16s at that time and F-16 was better choice due to better multirole specially dog fight capability and it was the answer what USSR could have fielded against Pakistan, what Pakistan miss was ToT of F-20 we should have gone for it by some how arranging funds.

During 90s it was our corrupt rulers who did not let PAF buy decent 4th gen fighter as for M2K5 it was not just corruption, French were also offering them on higher price keeping in view of limited options of PAF in terms of getting new birds.

In 2000 PAF did make a mistake, they should have gone for 36 Rafales (but it was not fully mature platform then) with equipment for JFT along with used MLUed F-16s.

Hi,

You thoughtless man---the mirage indeed was not inferior to the F16 at that time---but in due time it became as supreior to the F16 or more---.

What the fck happened to the MAN BEHIND THE MACHINE that was being bragged by the Paf for decades.

Indian would never be able to get the F16 at that time---.

With the Mirage 2000 in Pak air force---Paf would have neutered IAF.

USSR had nothing to field against the Paf at that time---the pakistani mirage 3/5 were as good an aircraft in combat as any---.

Supposedly the first kills were done by the mirage---.

The Paf commited TREASON by allowing the indians to get the "SECOND BEST" aircraft the mirage 2000.

The Rafale was a mature program in 2002---. It was the leading aircraft of the world second most potent super power.

Stop telling lies for the sake of Paf---.

Sir when every one has an opinion, It is called democracy. And are you advocating that certain people should have or share their opinion and others don't. May be i dont know much about what we are discussing, but i m in the process of learning, same as you when you were in your 20s or 30s.
And by the way you should be polite to other junior members. you dont know that members like me are learning a huge amount of things from members like you, and element of respect has been created for such members like you in our hearts. If you dont agree with what I say put a sensible argument instead of teaching mannerism.

Hi,

There is no such thing as "democracy" in pakistan---it is a mob rule and chaos---.

In weapons purchase---there is no such thing as democracy.

Develop a thick skin and that is the only way you will learn---.

For pakistani kids---they need to be smacked hard----otherwise all your lives you will claim to be learning and in the end learn nothing---.

When you want to learn---GET YOUR EGO OUT OF THE WAY---that is first and foremost---.

If you hear something different---you need to latch onto that and find out why someone is talking different---what is the reason---what is the purpose---.

I did not " learn " as you stated in my 20's and 30's---my tragedy is that I started learning it when I was 7 years old---there was a plethora of books about war in my house that my father had started buying for me to read after I was born---.

I don't have time for any "sensible" argument---you kids need to DEVELOP the resource to get to the crux of the matter by delving and diving deeper into the issue---and learn to ask---WHY.

It is you who needs to widen your horizons---my time has come and gone---I am just a crusty old man---who don't give a sh-it if I hurt your feelings or if you hurt my ego / feelings---.

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

At 60 plus years of age---I could qualify to be Dad / grand dad to many---so don't go there.

Talk professional---.



Hi,

You thoughtless man---the mirage indeed was not inferior to the F16 at that time---but in due time it became as supreior to the F16 or more---.

What the fck happened to the MAN BEHIND THE MACHINE that was being bragged by the Paf for decades.

Indian would never be able to get the F16 at that time---.

USSR had nothing to field against the Paf at that time---the pakistani mirage 3/5 were as good an aircraft in combat as any---.

Supposedly the first kills were done by the mirage---.

The Paf commited TREASON by allowing the indians to get the "SECOND BEST" aircraft the mirage 2000.

The Rafale was a mature program in 2002---. It was the leading aircraft of the world second most potent super power.

Stop telling lies for the sake of Paf---.



Hi,

There is no such thing as "democracy" in pakistan---it is a mob rule and chaos---.

In weapons purchase---there is no such thing as democracy.

Develop a thick skin and that is the only way you will learn---.

For pakistani kids---they need to be smacked hard----otherwise all your lives you will claim to be learning and in the end learn nothing---.

When you want to learn---GET YOUR EGO OUT OF THE WAY---that is first and foremost---.

If you hear something different---you need to latch onto that and find out why someone is talking different---what is the reason---what is the purpose---.

I did not " learn " as you stated in my 20's and 30's---my tragedy is that I started learning it when I was 7 years old---there was a plethora of books about war in my house that my father had started buying for me to read after I was born---.

I don't have time for any "sensible" argument---you kids need to DEVELOP the resource to get to the crux of the matter by delving and diving deeper into the issue---and learn to ask---WHY.

It is you who needs to widen your horizons---my time has come and gone---I am just a crusty old man---who don't give a sh-it if I hurt your feelings or if you hurt my ego / feelings---.

But you said talk professional. Or does your age give you the edge to roast and enjoy mocking others. Would there not be a better way of explaining others about a topic or you had to be smacked more hard to build thick skin.....Does living in Socal give you the edge over what officers currently do or have done in PAF.....or you get to build your opinionated facts from others....

 

[MastanKhan]

But you said talk professional. Or does your age give you the edge to roast and enjoy mocking others. Would there not be a better way of explaining others about a topic or you had to be smacked more hard to build thick skin.....Does living in Socal give you the edge over what officers currently do or have done in PAF.....or you get to build your opinionated facts from others....

Hi,

As I stated---I don't have patience for incompetence.

Living in socal has nothing to do with who I am---.

as for the paf officers---the result is the proof of the pudding that they have made---and it is TERRIBLE.

I have been explaining about the topic for the last 10 + years over here---and it is the same answers every young upcoming pakistani comes up with---one sob story after the other---no vision---no tactical understanding---.

What is the worst that can happen to me here---the webby will say get lost---.

If you listen to learn as to what is being said---and not what you want to hear---in your life---you will never again complain of another person being obnoxious---overbearing or outrageous---.

You will find yourself at a different plateau---.

I have fought those same battles against my elders in my younger days---as younger pakistanis are fighting with me---same complaints---same sob stories---and that is a tragedy---.

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

As I stated---I don't have patience for incompetence.

Living in socal has nothing to do with who I am---.

as for the paf officers---the result is the proof of the pudding that they have made---and it is TERRIBLE.

I have been explaining about the topic for the last 10 + years over here---and it is the same answers every young upcoming pakistani comes up with---one sob story after the other---no vision---no tactical understanding---.

What is the worst that can happen to me here---the webby will say get lost---.

If you listen to learn as to what is being said---and not what you want to hear---in your life---you will never again complain of another person being obnoxious---overbearing or outrageous---.

You will find yourself at a different plateau---.

I have fought those same battles against my elders in my younger days---as younger pakistanis are fighting with me---same complaints---same sob stories---and that is a tragedy---.

I understand. I have an idea of what you mean...been through some of that myself. Thanks and I appreciate for your point of view. Cheers !!!

 

[ghazi768]

Hi,

At 60 plus years of age---I could qualify to be Dad / grand dad to many---so don't go there.

Talk professional---.

'At 60 plus years of age'.. you talk like kids. Worse you are single headed and behave like toddlers, no amount of arguments are useful.. you are impervious to them.

Talk professional... are you serious.. if you are professional than you will already know what shit we would be been in today, had we acquired M2Ks.. and now would have ended facing SUs.. outranged, outgunned, out-powered.. No you are not talking like 'professional'..

 

[litman]

i dont think PAF officials can see beyond F-16 and pak economy can afford anything beyond F-16 and JF 17. F-16 is out of the question due to strained US -pak relations so the only option left is JFT.