Featured PAF Center of Artificial Intelligence and Computing

[denel]

We must take things for what they're worth.
This new institution is a great initiative by the PAF but it obviously speaks highly of the utter failure of our policymakers (i.e the civilian government) in capitalizing and investing in new technologies and in making sustainable human resource development. I have looked at government documents dating back to the 80s and they mention institutions which were created and then left to rot and which continue to serve as monuments to the criminality and insincerity of our policymakers. The way this country has been fooled and looted makes for a bloody and pathetic story.
We have built buildings for some idiot minister to inaugurate and then they serve as excellent job-handouts to our jiyalas and patwaris. We continue to do this to this day. And in all likelihood this will continue regardless of what PM IK and some of his patriotic and dedicated partners choose to do.
Our political elite and bureaucracy are a national security threat and the sooner we realize that the better chance we have of survival.
Coming to the PAF, this institution will serve as a nucleus of efforts in the AI and computing area, which may or may not have significant advantages as far as indigenous capability development is concerned.
But we don't really believe that do we?
Because it's not the PAF's fault that the country's schools produce students whose only aim in life is to get an A1 grade with 85% or more in the board exams and sit for University entry tests which judge a student's ability to cram rather than his understanding of fundamental concepts or his problem solving abilities.
The students who go through this entire process and come out on top are the 'creme de la creme' of the nation. But they really can not stand up to the demands of the modern world. Even if they can, they don't stay in Pakistan any longer to find out. They go to Germany or the US and never some back.
If they do come back out of patriotism, then they are hounded by the empty headed colonels and brigadiers that are tasked with judging who is a RAW agent and who is not. They are bullied by the military sentries at the gates of their workplace. They are regarded as second class citizens and treated as mere demonstrators when some General or Admiral or ACM is being shown around by a uniformed stooge whose only aim is to impress the boss.
The military guy in charge of their project (he's always military, along with another empty headed stooge who's responsible for 'admin' duties i.e. secorty) demands results without any regard for the subtle nuances of R&D. This directly results in fudging of test data and other information to satisfy the boss. I have bee a witness to this first hand.
So in short, what the PAF will get out of this initiative depends on what it is willing to put in. If it has the commitment and patience to put the right people at the right positions regardless of whether they're civilians or military, if it is willing to treat civilian staff with the same respect and reverance as the military staff and provide them the same perks and privileges, then maybe we can hope to achieve something.
If not, then I can totally see us fooling ourselves (no one else is fooled) 20 years later by presenting another 'indigenous' aircraft of which 58% has been made in Pakistan.

Friend you truly do not know how much good research in this field is being done by many researchers in Pak at educational instititions - just look up Akram, you will find his tonnes of contributions in this field. AI is too high a term - I can take a good bet with you - if i were to ask the question from these people - i would get words like tensorflow etc etc... WRONG - what is the mathematical basis for it is where you start from. PAF or who ever are end users where problem statements can be given from. Let them do their job and let researchers outside do their work.
To put these quasi- mil people on pedestal is not right. You need to have educational institutions as well as industries which can leverage the research and partner with them. If you state this is not so, you are quiet right, it is a total failure as a nation then to elevate educational; i am telling you it is a false narrative - there are very good researchers in Pak who i have partnered with in this field. But alas noone internally in your country appreciates their contribution to this field except outsiders.

 

[Caprxl]

I am not passing judgement; it makes no sense why they would be doing it. AI area is not something you just concot up. Where is the mathematical doctrine that supports AI etc etc, are you telling me they have now become mathematicians, statisticians etc. I can give a complete list of supporting work that is needed for any one to state they are into AI.

I can just say that We are not starting from Ground Zero.

Just for the sake of argument even if it is as you have mentioned, logic dictates it is never too late, have to take start from somewhere.

If we are not privy to the details, it does not mean it is not happening/or has not happened. You have to understand it has been been embedded in our genes for better or worse to not let the info/details out due to many reasons.

if I told you that we do not have the mathematical background

It is definitely not Zilch.

If i told you we do not have the data sources,

Hmmm, have to take the 1st Step for the journey of 1000 miles.

nor do we have the culture even appreciation for AI,

Will disagree on this one, Leave PAF alone, even PA has been doing the homework from last few years & have myself contributed to the cause. So the culture has definitely started to develop now, even if it is in Conception stage.

 

[JamD]

We must take things for what they're worth.
This new institution is a great initiative by the PAF but it obviously speaks highly of the utter failure of our policymakers (i.e the civilian government) in capitalizing and investing in new technologies and in making sustainable human resource development. I have looked at government documents dating back to the 80s and they mention institutions which were created and then left to rot and which continue to serve as monuments to the criminality and insincerity of our policymakers. The way this country has been fooled and looted makes for a bloody and pathetic story.
We have built buildings for some idiot minister to inaugurate and then they serve as excellent job-handouts to our jiyalas and patwaris. We continue to do this to this day. And in all likelihood this will continue regardless of what PM IK and some of his patriotic and dedicated partners choose to do.
Our political elite and bureaucracy are a national security threat and the sooner we realize that the better chance we have of survival.
Coming to the PAF, this institution will serve as a nucleus of efforts in the AI and computing area, which may or may not have significant advantages as far as indigenous capability development is concerned.
But we don't really believe that do we?
Because it's not the PAF's fault that the country's schools produce students whose only aim in life is to get an A1 grade with 85% or more in the board exams and sit for University entry tests which judge a student's ability to cram rather than his understanding of fundamental concepts or his problem solving abilities.
The students who go through this entire process and come out on top are the 'creme de la creme' of the nation. But they really can not stand up to the demands of the modern world. Even if they can, they don't stay in Pakistan any longer to find out. They go to Germany or the US and never some back.
If they do come back out of patriotism, then they are hounded by the empty headed colonels and brigadiers that are tasked with judging who is a RAW agent and who is not. They are bullied by the military sentries at the gates of their workplace. They are regarded as second class citizens and treated as mere demonstrators when some General or Admiral or ACM is being shown around by a uniformed stooge whose only aim is to impress the boss.
The military guy in charge of their project (he's always military, along with another empty headed stooge who's responsible for 'admin' duties i.e. secorty) demands results without any regard for the subtle nuances of R&D. This directly results in fudging of test data and other information to satisfy the boss. I have bee a witness to this first hand.
So in short, what the PAF will get out of this initiative depends on what it is willing to put in. If it has the commitment and patience to put the right people at the right positions regardless of whether they're civilians or military, if it is willing to treat civilian staff with the same respect and reverance as the military staff and provide them the same perks and privileges, then maybe we can hope to achieve something.
If not, then I can totally see us fooling ourselves (no one else is fooled) 20 years later by presenting another 'indigenous' aircraft of which 58% has been made in Pakistan.

This post will cause a lot of indigestion here lol. Very aptly described.

 

[Caprxl]

You need to have educational institutions as well as industries which can leverage the research and partner with them

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Friend you truly do not know how much good research in this field is being done by many researchers in Pak at educational instititions - just look up Akram, you will find his tonnes of contributions in this field. AI is too high a term - I can take a good bet with you - if i were to ask the question from these people - i would get words like tensorflow etc etc... WRONG - what is the mathematical basis for it is where you start from. PAF or who ever are end users where problem statements can be given from. Let them do their job and let researchers outside do their work.
To put these quasi- mil people on pedestal is not right. You need to have educational institutions as well as industries which can leverage the research and partner with them. If you state this is not so, you are quiet right, it is a total failure as a nation then to elevate educational; i am telling you it is a false narrative - there are very good researchers in Pak who i have partnered with in this field. But alas noone internally in your country appreciates their contribution to this field except outsiders.

Good
A lot of people people overlook the fact, once has to walk before you run; that too if you have the muscular strength to do so.
For some thing to be driven by, or even make use of AI, the first predicate is availability of pertinent and cleansed data, which may or may not be contextualized.
Above requires a culture of transformed organization, that values and builds upon what numbers are saying.

It's harsh to single out PAF, almost every organization is facing similar challenges to various degrees.
However to celebrate the setup of this center and hail it as a transformer only portrays negligence.

 

[Raider 21]

We must take things for what they're worth.
This new institution is a great initiative by the PAF but it obviously speaks highly of the utter failure of our policymakers (i.e the civilian government) in capitalizing and investing in new technologies and in making sustainable human resource development. I have looked at government documents dating back to the 80s and they mention institutions which were created and then left to rot and which continue to serve as monuments to the criminality and insincerity of our policymakers. The way this country has been fooled and looted makes for a bloody and pathetic story.
We have built buildings for some idiot minister to inaugurate and then they serve as excellent job-handouts to our jiyalas and patwaris. We continue to do this to this day. And in all likelihood this will continue regardless of what PM IK and some of his patriotic and dedicated partners choose to do.
Our political elite and bureaucracy are a national security threat and the sooner we realize that the better chance we have of survival.
Coming to the PAF, this institution will serve as a nucleus of efforts in the AI and computing area, which may or may not have significant advantages as far as indigenous capability development is concerned.
But we don't really believe that do we?
Because it's not the PAF's fault that the country's schools produce students whose only aim in life is to get an A1 grade with 85% or more in the board exams and sit for University entry tests which judge a student's ability to cram rather than his understanding of fundamental concepts or his problem solving abilities.
The students who go through this entire process and come out on top are the 'creme de la creme' of the nation. But they really can not stand up to the demands of the modern world. Even if they can, they don't stay in Pakistan any longer to find out. They go to Germany or the US and never some back.
If they do come back out of patriotism, then they are hounded by the empty headed colonels and brigadiers that are tasked with judging who is a RAW agent and who is not. They are bullied by the military sentries at the gates of their workplace. They are regarded as second class citizens and treated as mere demonstrators when some General or Admiral or ACM is being shown around by a uniformed stooge whose only aim is to impress the boss.
The military guy in charge of their project (he's always military, along with another empty headed stooge who's responsible for 'admin' duties i.e. secorty) demands results without any regard for the subtle nuances of R&D. This directly results in fudging of test data and other information to satisfy the boss. I have bee a witness to this first hand.
So in short, what the PAF will get out of this initiative depends on what it is willing to put in. If it has the commitment and patience to put the right people at the right positions regardless of whether they're civilians or military, if it is willing to treat civilian staff with the same respect and reverance as the military staff and provide them the same perks and privileges, then maybe we can hope to achieve something.
If not, then I can totally see us fooling ourselves (no one else is fooled) 20 years later by presenting another 'indigenous' aircraft of which 58% has been made in Pakistan.

A very good summary on how it is actually. They are more valued abroad than they would be in their own country.

 

[Awan68]

Schooling time.

Have YOU searched what AFINITI does ? ( see how it is spelled )

Do you know what their research is in ? and what service / industry they serve ?

Why don't you go ahead and then come back and tell us about what you have learned.

There, School time is over, i am dissapointed in ur progress, for homework write "I will not spread my stupidity" a 100 times, see u after the weekend.

 

[SecularNationalist]

And from where they are going to attract AI talent? Are our universities producing competent people in this field?

 

[sparten]

Oh really ?
Please do not post stuff that is not correct.

Reading posts on this thread just goes on to show how our basic education system has deteriorated over the last few decades.

What is not correct? Afiniti literally started in Lahore

Afiniti | Pair Better

Afiniti transforms the way humans interact by applying artificial intelligence to discover, predict and affect patterns of interpersonal behavior.

www.afiniti.com

Its main research center is in Karachi'

Afiniti | Pair Better

Afiniti transforms the way humans interact by applying artificial intelligence to discover, predict and affect patterns of interpersonal behavior.

www.afiniti.com

 

[Marker]

AI and computing will be the part and parcel of near future warfare.

Situation awareness, fully automated or semi-automated command and control, unmanned weapon delivery systems like remote controlled or AI controlled tanks, aircraft and ships/submarines are the near future realities of war.

The Heron Systems' AI algorithm has performed better than US ace pilot in simulated dogfights.

AI vs. Human Fighter Pilot: Here's Who Won the Epic Dogfight
AlphaDogfight Trials Final Event

Schooling time.

Have YOU searched what AFINITI does ? ( see how it is spelled )

Do you know what their research is in ? and what service / industry they serve ?

Why don't you go ahead and then come back and tell us about what you have learned.

AFINITI Pair Better is an AI product which focuses on human behavioral patterns which are used to pair customer and employee for better sales and services.

Yes this is one peaceful, productive, efficient and profitable use of AI.

But AI usage in war is a debatable issue.

Should we fully authorize AI to make critical decisions and execution during war based on situation awareness or it should only provide all possible solutions and their risk??????

PAF initiative is purely focusing on military use of AI and computing.

Some of the respected members underestimate the true potential of our Pakistani youth due to their inadequate education.
Unfortunately our youth are not being provided with the right opportunities and they are being discouraged to take initiatives by corrupt and illiterate officials and political leaders.

I am not proud of the fact that world's first computer virus was created by Pakistani!!!!
This is one angle to gauge the potential of these youth, If they are given positive opportunities, I am very much hopeful that they will out perform many... Insha Allah

 

[WebMaster]

What is not correct? Afiniti literally started in Lahore

Afiniti | Pair Better

Afiniti transforms the way humans interact by applying artificial intelligence to discover, predict and affect patterns of interpersonal behavior.

www.afiniti.com

Its main research center is in Karachi'

Afiniti | Pair Better

Afiniti transforms the way humans interact by applying artificial intelligence to discover, predict and affect patterns of interpersonal behavior.

www.afiniti.com

My cousin works in Afiniti, he graduated from Karachi NED. Well, lets just say thank god it is not part of Sindh government else he wouldn't have a job there.

 

[khansaheeb]

Finally. An excellent venture. No not exactly, AZM started earlier and might come in parallel once it matures. I was offered a position at PAC Kamra a few years ago related to aerodynamic design optimisation. AZM was still very much in the early stages and R&D is still being performed in addition to what they have.

All the new code for AZM needs to have AI incorporated within it to ensure human reaction times can be reduced and human emotions and logic can be eliminated. AI needs to be used to take over high speed decision making in aerial warfare in assisted or pilotless planes.

 

[Alchemist17]

With 2 decades of professional experience ( a few with PAF, PA) , if I told you that this will remain only a center
if I told you that we do not have the mathematical background
If i told you we do not have the data sources,
nor do we have the culture even appreciation for AI,

would you believe me ?

Perhaps you forget exceptions like Pasban IT. Or so many kids who became Microsoft Certified Professionals, so there are people who are very bright in this field. there is somewhat appreciation among educated circles. We need ambitious young people, pay them well and give them incentive. Someone who has already spent a good part of their life might not get what ambition I am talking about. World is changing sir, its time we do too. I saw the same anguish and hopelessness in you that I see in my Father. Pakistan is way behind its time. The Bureaucrats and Politicians will die. Its my job to not let their children rule us again. So wish me luck.

 

[Zarvan]

Good Job PAF. Although this one could be related to AZM but we need to venture more in fields of Artificial Intelligence and Cyber Space

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

If it's part of the AZM family, then I believe that we are very late here.

AI and Machine Learning are around for more than a decade now and that too in commercial use.

But still its good to see that the need of AI has been realized and a practical step has been taken.

Better late than never....