PAF Air Defence Low Level Sensors

[Bilal Khan 777]

Could the issue be a lack of financially accessible options? Wouldn't it be prudent to just take down a relatively high cost in exchange for getting a system that can serve properly for decades?

You get what you pay for. Pakistan has evaluated Chinese "lower cost" passive phased array 3D radars, and none were found upto par with PAF standards. A similar system was purchased by Navy for coastal defence. Any acquisition would be phased and shall be over time, hence cost become less of an issue, but cost is always offset against capability. Europeans and Americans make really good kit that lasts for decades, but it also costs money. Cost through life is more relevant, a concept that is slowly setting in with the decision makers.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Unconfirmed reports suggest Lockheed Martin TPS-77 MRR, on offer to Pakistan for low level sensor replacement has finally become a serious contender among other systems being considered, after showing a "concept demonstrator" in-country. The system is being considered in continuation of the TPS-77 High Power Radar acquisition earlier. However, Pakistan continues to maintain an aggressive posture in its air defense sensor umbrella, with continued operation of TPS-43, YLC-2, and various airborne radars.

Analysts suggest that acquisition of TPS-77 MRR will make Pakistan dependent on the US for its low level sensors, with MPDR fleet facing major obsolescence. As in the past, support for US systems get easily pulled during conflicts, and while there is redundancy in the high-level sensors, the low level sensors require a partner that stays neutral during conflicts and continues to supply critical parts such transmitter and receiver subsystems.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Unconfirmed reports suggest Lockheed Martin TPS-77 MRR, on offer to Pakistan for low level sensor replacement has finally become a serious contender among other systems being considered, after showing a "concept demonstrator" in-country. The system is being considered in continuation of the TPS-77 High Power Radar acquisition earlier. However, Pakistan continues to maintain an aggressive posture in its air defense sensor umbrella, with continued operation of TPS-43, YLC-2, and various airborne radars.

Analysts suggest that acquisition of TPS-77 MRR will make Pakistan dependent on the US for its low level sensors, with MPDR fleet facing major obsolescence. As in the past, support for US systems get easily pulled during conflicts, and while there is redundancy in the high-level sensors, the low level sensors require a partner that stays neutral during conflicts and continues to supply critical parts such transmitter and receiver subsystems.

Any updates?

 

[princefaisal]

better to look into Turkish or Belarus options.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Any updates?

French radar may not be affordable, American radar may not be feasible, and Chinese radar may have improved.

better to look into Turkish or Belarus options.

Neither have a low looking radar. Turkish is a FCR, and Belarus is a VHF long range radar.

 

[alimobin memon]

Part of Project Crystal and PADS-77, Pakistan Invested in acquiring Siemens Mobile Pulse Doppler Radars (MPDRs), with 45 Km, 60 Km ,and 90 Km Range and respective models MPDR-45, 60, and 90. These radars have served PAF by filling the gaps in high level radar coverage. These radars have also been part of many crucial action missions of PAF. Owing to their excellent built quality and German Engineering, and Pakistan receiving depot level facilities in Kamra, the system was kept alive beyond its useful live.

Today, MPDR still serves PAF in all national sectors under the newly structured ADGE, and Air Defence Command and Control system developed in-house. However, these radars are out of date with the current ECM environment, and potential candidates for replacement or upgrade.

Does anyone have any information on PAF's plan for upgrade or replacement of MPDR sensors? Kindly keep the discussion civil.

If you meant by Air surveillance radars only then Pakistan has around 6 of Active Radars recently purchased in early 2010's here

Range = Detection Range
1. Ground Radars:
I. TPS 77 3D AESA Radar[1,2]: Link
It has 300km range for 1m^2 radar with 100K ft altitude it is in medium to low long range survelliance and covers whole Pakistan combining 6 of these.

II. TPS 43 [3] radar is also 3d radar also 6 acquired from USA

3. AWACS Air to Air
I: K8 Karakorum with 400+ km range

II: Saab 2000 Eriye with 400+ km range

[1]. http://www.dawn.com/news/933534/pakistan-inducts-tps-77-radars-into-the-air-force
[2]. http://quwa.org/2016/03/15/pakistans-c4isr-part-2-land-airborne-surveillance-systems/
[3]. http://pakdef.org/pakistan-air-defence-ground-environment-system/

Yes that is true even after claiming capability of overhauling the systems Pakistan technicians import transmitter even for obsolete giraffe systems even the cooling solution is oftenly overhauled due to its service life thats why Pakistan awacs are more handy.

Currently Pakistan has all old tech in low observatory radar systems which are being replaced by Chinese radars Like YL series

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

French radar may not be affordable, American radar may not be feasible, and Chinese radar may have improved.



Neither have a low looking radar. Turkish is a FCR, and Belarus is a VHF long range radar.

Sir how about going for Spanish ones. They would offer commonality with Civil Aviation Radars Pakistan recently bought.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

If you meant by Air surveillance radars only then Pakistan has around 6 of Active Radars recently purchased in early 2010's here

Range = Detection Range
1. Ground Radars:
I. TPS 77 3D AESA Radar[1,2]: Link
It has 300km range for 1m^2 radar with 100K ft altitude it is in medium to low long range survelliance and covers whole Pakistan combining 6 of these.

II. TPS 43 [3] radar is also 3d radar also 6 acquired from USA

3. AWACS Air to Air
I: K8 Karakorum with 400+ km range

II: Saab 2000 Eriye with 400+ km range

[1]. http://www.dawn.com/news/933534/pakistan-inducts-tps-77-radars-into-the-air-force
[2]. http://quwa.org/2016/03/15/pakistans-c4isr-part-2-land-airborne-surveillance-systems/
[3]. http://pakdef.org/pakistan-air-defence-ground-environment-system/

Yes that is true even after claiming capability of overhauling the systems Pakistan technicians import transmitter even for obsolete giraffe systems even the cooling solution is oftenly overhauled due to its service life thats why Pakistan awacs are more handy.

Currently Pakistan has all old tech in low observatory radar systems which are being replaced by Chinese radars Like YL series
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...et.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGV2psS3oetG3ibpkmu8-bos1PESw

Your knowledge of the Pakistani radar scape seems to be limited and out of date.

Sir how about going for Spanish ones. They would offer commonality with Civil Aviation Radars Pakistan recently bought.

CAA and Low Level Air Defence are not the same.

 

[ali_raza]

Your knowledge of the Pakistani radar scape seems to be limited and out of date.



CAA and Low Level Air Defence are not the same.

mashallah u r slowly becoming star of the forum u have alote of knowledge

 

[war&peace]

Pretty impressive specs of the Kronos System
View attachment 268865


@Oscar How would you compare Selex to US systems?

Has Pakistan inducted this system sir?

 

[princefaisal]

Chinese radars (JYL-1 Long-range 3D Air Defence Radar, YLC-2A/2V 3D phased array radar) are equally good. Chinese latest JY-26 Phased Array Radar can detect stealth aircrafts.

 

[SQ8]

Chinese radars (JYL-1 Long-range 3D Air Defence Radar, YLC-2A/2V 3D phased array radar) are equally good. Chinese latest JY-26 Phased Array Radar can detect stealth aircrafts.

No they are not. Not only do they not provide similar levels of performance, they also have much lower MTBF's.
Please provide the accurate data if you believe otherwise.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

IBIS 150 are on order ...
Giraffe radar is also there for low level detection along with YLC series

 

[Gryphon]

@Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar

PAF is now integrating SAM's with search radars & C2 as part of IADS. You got any updates about low-level radar replacement.

Are any Russian radars like Kasta-2E2 being considered ?

 

[araz]

mashallah u r slowly becoming star of the forum u have alote of knowledge

He has just got a few years of experience working on the systems. Like a life time. Get the drift brother.
A