PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[IndianArmy]

Source: Wikileaks.

Now it is typical of the indians to keep believing and telling lies about our missiles program, but the truth is that our scientists have worked hard in researching and developing our missile program.

I dint deny it. My only question is why hasnt SUPARCO come up with a next project in nearly 4 decades?

The are many options for a Pakistani Tank destroyer to bring the Bakthar Shikan in a good, covered and camouflage firing position in a "open flat or even undulating terrain" to engage Indian armored vehicles.

And the Examples are?

well pakistani tanks does has laser threat warning system and most important varta soft kill aps as well

the LTS is locally developed by GIDS

Good For you, but how is it relevant to what you have quoted.

 

[IndianArmy]

This Helicopters can come in the range of MANPADS and AA Guns, so they are also not safe, and a laser warning system, is only a "Warning" it makes not 100% sure that the missile will not hit the target "It serves to increase the survival chances of a tank on the battlefield".

Modern attack helicopters are designed to dampen the IR signature produced by their turbines, facing the threat will provide much less IR signature . And MANPADS are defensive weapons.In any case, the anti-tank helicopter armed with ATGWs (Anti-Tank Guided Weapons) or anti-tank cannons is one of the biggest threats to a modern tank. The helicopter can position itself where it is not easily seen from a tank and then attack from any quarter, exposing the weaker parts of the tank's armor. The limited visibility from a closed-down tank also makes sighting a helicopter more difficult.

And how many Helicopters the Indian Tank Corps of ca. 3500 Tanks needs the cover the Sky 24 hours ? I dont know, what I know that this Helis are not 100% safe frome the Pakistani Anza Manpad Series and the 12.7mm AA Gun ( not inlcuded the Type-56 37mm AA Gun, and which are in very high Numbers in service with the Pakistani Forces, most are from chinese stockpiles, which have deadly range for Helicopters) !

LCH's Service ceiling is 6,500 m (21,300 ft) which Neither the Anza MKII's nor the Anza Mk-IIIs can reach by both range and Altitude

Secondly you have to consider that the Pakistanis are producing weapons like the 12.7mm AA Gun DShK, Bakthar Shikan, AnzaI and AnzaII over a period of ca. 20 years if not longer, so this weapons have been delivered to the front line troops in masses, and have been also UPGRADED. For the defensive-Forces of the Pakistan Army this weapons are enough to give the Enemy a hard fight and to crush the spearheads of any Indian Tank offensive.

The answer to your question, lies in the advantages India has over Pakistan in net centric capability.

To the Discussion that the "Bakthar Shikan is outdated", Since the wire-guided missile Bakthar Shikan is not automatic, the actual probability of a Tank-hit is under combat conditions higher !

The Fire and forget missiles have a maximum hit probability of 95% when the tank is on move. The Bakthar Shikan is not even close to having a hit probability of 40%

To your useless statement:"Scenarios given by you are long gone".........I can only say Dream Scenarios like yours will only happen on the table, reality on battlefield is not a PC-game.

Just because you dint understand what I meant doesent make the statement useless. If you don’t understand me, ask your fellow defense experts, they will guide you on modern warefares

 

[Gentelman]

Modern attack helicopters are designed to dampen the IR signature produced by their turbines, facing the threat will provide much less IR signature . And MANPADS are defensive weapons.In any case, the anti-tank helicopter armed with ATGWs (Anti-Tank Guided Weapons) or anti-tank cannons is one of the biggest threats to a modern tank. The helicopter can position itself where it is not easily seen from a tank and then attack from any quarter, exposing the weaker parts of the tank's armor. The limited visibility from a closed-down tank also makes sighting a helicopter more difficult.



LCH's Service ceiling is 6,500 m (21,300 ft) which Neither the Anza MKII's nor the Anza Mk-IIIs can reach by both range and Altitude



The answer to your question, lies in the advantages India has over Pakistan in net centric capability.



The Fire and forget missiles have a maximum hit probability of 95% when the tank is on move. The Bakthar Shikan is not even close to having a hit probability of 40%



Just because you dint understand what I meant doesent make the statement useless. If you don’t understand me, ask your fellow defense experts, they will guide you on modern warefares

Bro Baktar Shikn probablity is 80%+ which is in service in PA and an automatic version of Baktar Shikn is tested shortely whose probablity is 90%+ there is a thread running on that you can chek that out in Pakistan Army threads……

 

[Foo_Fighter]

what is the Indian reaction about Al Khalid series tanks.

I believe on 1 on 1 comparison with T90, Al Khalid does look a little tad better. However, max range is a certain advantage T90 has over Al Khalid which could be very crucial in the battle field. Also, Gunship support could tilt the battle in the Indian favor.

 

[IndianArmy]

Bro Baktar Shikn probablity is 80%+ which is in service in PA and an automatic version of Baktar Shikn is tested shortely whose probablity is 90%+ there is a thread running on that you can chek that out in Pakistan Army threads……

That is a static test probability you are talking about, which is exactly why I stressed the word "when the tank is on move"

 

[Inception-06]

Modern attack helicopters are designed to dampen the IR signature produced by their turbines, facing the threat will provide much less IR signature . And MANPADS are defensive weapons.In any case, the anti-tank helicopter armed with ATGWs (Anti-Tank Guided Weapons) or anti-tank cannons is one of the biggest threats to a modern tank. The helicopter can position itself where it is not easily seen from a tank and then attack from any quarter, exposing the weaker parts of the tank's armor. The limited visibility from a closed-down tank also makes sighting a helicopter more difficult.

I was not writing about the threats of Indian Helicopters against Pakistani Tanks,but about the "Bakthar Shikan" against Indian Tanks ! Tell me how this Indian Helicopters can make sure 100% to eliminate from this heights and ranges:"LCH's Service ceiling is 6,500 mc" ca. 2000 Pakistani Anti Tank missile launchers which are made and ready for the Anti-Tank battle along the Border (Bakthar Shikan, TOW, Milan...) ? It is possible ? May be, but the price will be also high ! Get on and bring tactical and technical facts !

 

[IndianArmy]

I was not writing about the threats of Indian Helicopters against Pakistani Tanks, but about the "Bakthar Shikan" against Indian Tanks ! Tell me how this Indian Helicopters can make sure 100% to eliminate from this heights and ranges:"LCH's Service ceiling is 6,500 mc" ca. 2000 Pakistani Anti Tank missile launchers which are made and ready for the Anti-Tank battle along the Border (Bakthar Shikan, TOW, Milan...) ? It is possible ? May be, but the price will be also high ! Get on and bring tactical and technical facts !

Go through the articles relating to Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses and Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses. If you still dont get it, I will be happy to explain you.

 

[Inception-06]

LCH's Service ceiling is 6,500 m (21,300 ft) which Neither the Anza MKII's nor the Anza Mk-IIIs can reach by both range and Altitude

The answer to your question, lies in the advantages India has over Pakistan in net centric capability.

In the Moment, when the Pakistanis Manpads can not reach the Indian Helicopters, which flys in the Air according to YOU 6 Km away......., so is it also difficult for the Indian Helis to reach and finde the well covered Pakistani Bakthar Shikans which are in Bunkers, villages along the Border, houses ....

Go through the articles relating to Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses and Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses. If you still dont get it, I will be happy to explain you.

Dont need to do that,to be come happy, BE HAPPY, I was in the service of the German Anti Tank Battalion, called "Panzergrenadier" till 2010, we are well educated about basic facts like this !



A selam my Pakistani Brothers and sisters !

 

[Gentelman]

That is a static test probability you are talking about, which is exactly why I stressed the word "when the tank is on move"

Bro I don't know about tests of Anti tank in your country but here tests are done on both moving targets as well as stationary………
That's not other countries calculated % its calculated with live tests………

 

[IndianArmy]

In the Moment, when the Pakistanis Manpads can not reach the Indian Helicopters, so is it also difficult for the Indian Helis to reach the well covered Pakistani Bakthar Shikans which are in Bunkers, villages along the Border, houses ....that mean very difficult to finde for a Pilot which flys in the Air according to YOU 6 Km away.......

Getting good intelligence to prevent anyone taking up a firing position is vital in the scenarios given by you,Failing that, detecting a missile launch and Taking countermeasures to prevent any adverse effect, you can always rely on the Integrated Defensive Aids Suite and besides the modern attack helicopters can take our the target with advanced Target acquisition and designation eqpt's before the MAN operating the PADS gets to lock on .

But I am not arguing that Attack Choppers are invincible.

 

[IndianArmy]

Bro I don't know about tests of Anti tank in your country but here tests are done on both moving targets as well as stationary………
That's not other countries calculated % its calculated with live tests………

I am sorry, never came across an article where I could educate myself on BS being tested on moving target, can u help me with one??

 

[Gentelman]

I am sorry, never came across an article where I could educate myself on BS being tested on moving target, can u help me with one??

Soo you think anti tank missiles are tested on stationary targets like dumb bombs and unguided missiles??
I don't think soo
well you are getting outta topic 1st dragging helis and now these anti tanks
well pak army thread about test of new anti tank missile help your self
and shouldnot be you a bit respectful??

 

[IndianArmy]

Soo you think anti tank missiles are tested on stationary targets like dumb bombs and unguided missiles??
I don't think soo
well you are getting outta topic 1st dragging helis and now these anti tanks
well pak army thread about test of new anti tank missile help your self
and shouldnot be you a bit respectful??

I am sorry gentleman, but where did I show Disrespect.

 

[surya kiran]

Indian Mig-27 can meet the air defence of the ground Troops, which includes, long and short-range AA Guns, MANPADS (AnzaI+AnzaII+AnzaIII+RBS70+FN-6), than the Air Defence Corps, which operates Systems like the SPADA and the Pakistan Air Force which uses the Jf-17.

Again. Read up on which is the armament. BL755 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Plus the Jags have this...CBU-97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These will rain on any armoured formation of the PA. Now you can deploy all your anzas or whatever. A couple of these away and the damage is done. Now, do you understand?

 

[farhan_9909]

kombat atgm active with Al khalid has the capability against choppers as well.

Gun lauched ATGM