PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[Dazzler]

Al khalid has faulty turret geometry and its reactive armour coverage and quality is not t-90 standard.T-90 thus have good advantage in armour protection over khalid.But armour aside in mobility,electronics,firepower khalid can go toe to toe with t-90 anyday.

LOL, prove how it is faulty so we could have an educated discussion. As far as i know, it has a decent composite armour packege approximately 650-700 mm without ERA, a reason why there is no heavy ERA coverage there, Thats why PA has 350+ of them in service with two versions. It has better electronics than your T-90S and M, when MS comes in iIA, it will be on par

How is it better? Has environment control system, FCS is pretty advanced (French with indeginous HIT made ballistic computer) with auto tracking, 2nd and 3rd gen thermal imagers with hunter killer capability, datalink, advanced IBMS system.





You forgot Arjun that has everything faulty from turret to engine to optics to gun to tracks to fire control system to name a few

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Pakistan uses self made autoloader...visit AK information pool.

Its still carousel type autoloader.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Ahh innocence

Saw this coming, Arjun has several issues which i will show you later. As far as AK and T-80ud are concerned, they use different autoloaders, in case of AK, it is a modified all electric unit, unklike the age old T-72 AZ one.

Lastly, IA has some difficiencies in Tank APFSDS too, the longest shell they use is not more than 520 mm in penetration @ 2000 mm front on, where as, PA has longer penetrators. Example is Naiza1 (550 @ 2000 m, Naiza2 is in service for quite a while but not advertised, 650+ mm @ 2000 m and Sino-Pak Type II and Type M, both have 550, 620-650 mm penetration respectively).

Unless IA buys new APFSDS rounds or make their own AMK-340 series work better with T-72/ 90 instead of exploding inside the gun barrel, there is plenty to worry for them.

Agreed about the innocence part.
As for ammo,we now make t-90 ammo not just buying it.Newer AP rounds were bought from russia along with second batch of t-90.And indigneously we already produce KE round with 610 mm penetration and are building one with 650-680mm mm penetration.
As for niaza2 it is said to be built for ak2 and its new loader which has not yet been revealed.

 

[Dazzler]

Its still carousel type autoloader.

It is modified to carry longer shells, all electric so now much faster reloading. Also, its Carousel can move both ways i.e. bi-directional reducing reloading time to a great extent did you know it?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

LOL, prove how it is faulty so we could have an educated discussion. As far as i know, it has a decent composite armour packege approximately 650-700 mm without ERA, a reason why there is no heavy ERA coverage there, Thats why PA has 350+ of them in service with two versions. It has better electronics than your T-90S and M, when MS comes in iIA, it will be on par

How is it better? Has environment control system, FCS is pretty advanced (French with indeginous HIT made ballistic computer) with auto tracking, 2nd and 3rd gen thermal imagers with hunter killer capability, datalink, advanced IBMS system.





You forgot Arjun that has everything faulty from turret to engine to optics to gun to tracks to fire control system to name a few

Wait,need to find that page.

But its Carousel can move both ways i.e. bi-directional reducing reloading time to a great extent did you know it?

But still limits size of rod.Unlike arjun which has enough space for potentially over 1000 mm long penetrator.AK/t-series design is dead end soon.Thats why russians move to armata.Now wait while i get the thread with turret geometry flaw things.

 

[Dazzler]

Agreed about the innocence part.
As for ammo,we now make t-90 ammo not just buying it.Newer AP rounds were bought from russia along with second batch of t-90.And indigneously we already produce KE round with 610 mm penetration and are building one with 650-680mm mm penetration.
As for niaza2 it is said to be built for ak2 and its new loader which has not yet been revealed.

Those newer rounds with Invar missile (Refleks version) nothing to hide here. PA already operates them along with Kombat from Ukraine. APFSDS rounds are a worrying part for IA. The best round they have is BM-42 Mango with maximum 500-520 mm penetration @ 2000 mm.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Those newer rounds with Invar missile (Refleks version) nothing to hide here. PA already operates them along with Kombat from Ukraine. APFSDS rounds are a worrying part for IA. The best round they have is BM-42 Mango with maximum 500-520 mm penetration @ 2000 mm.

No mango is standard cheap round.Indigeneous DRDO round has 610 mm and under development has 650-680mm round.
With new t-90M from 2009 in all probability new AP lekalo round is used.[650-700 mm]

 

[Dazzler]

Wait,need to find that page.



But still limits size of rod.Unlike arjun which has enough space for potentially over 1000 mm long penetrator.AK/t-series design is dead end soon.Thats why russians move to armata.Now wait while i get the thread with turret geometry flaw things.

Unless you need a 800 mm penetrator which is unnecessary in the sub-continenet, these autoloaders work just fine. Its your tank ammunition that is the worrying part. And plz dont bring Arjuns mighty rifled cannon as it is already obsolete tech with much slow shell velocity resulting in less penetration of armour.

No mango is standard cheap round.Indigeneous DRDO round has 610 mm and under development has 650-680mm round.
With new t-90M from 2009 in all probability new AP lekalo round is used.[650-700 mm]

O bhai, Mango is not indigenous round, its Russian standard export APFSDS, license manufactured in India. And the one i mentioned is AMK-340 which is Indian round which bursted in Ajaya's turret.

 

[Dazzler]

this thread will help you a great deal to have an insight into Al Khalid mbt..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...nk-type-90-iim-mbt-2000-information-pool.html

 

[Dazzler]

unforttunately, even the best Russian rounds have penetration values between 600-650 mm, Svinets (42M) and Lekalo (44M, though not in Russian service, still trials occurring)

125MM APFSDS ROUNDS

 

[Dazzler]

At 11:02, see Boron carbide cutting in various sizes...... A hint of possible AK, AZ armour


It must be remembered that HIT makes a variety of Carbides/ armour composition such as Aluminium carbide, Boron carbide and Silicon carbide to name a few.

Boron and tungsten carbide are used in Burlinton Armour composition, also known as Chobham armour.

Documentary: Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) & Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF) - Pakistan Army - YouTube

 

[Dazzler]

apparently we have been usign Boron carbide since 1980s... in our nuclear program in particular

http://www.e-polymers.org/journal/papers/tyasin_170408.pdf

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Unless you need a 800 mm penetrator which is unnecessary in the sub-continenet, these autoloaders work just fine. Its your tank ammunition that is the worrying part. And plz dont bring Arjuns mighty rifled cannon as it is already obsolete tech with much slow shell velocity resulting in less penetration of armour.



O bhai, Mango is not indigenous round, its Russian standard export APFSDS, license manufactured in India. And the one i mentioned is AMK-340 which is Indian round which bursted in Ajaya's turret.

First go to this thread.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/land-w...tell-me-why-type-99-looks-soooooo-sexy-2.html
Page 2 ,my post post number 19 to get answer on flawed al khalid turret .

Now onto ammo,i'm not talking about mango when i say indigeneous ammo.We have mango and invar as standrad ammo on t-series and t-72 tanks have the OFB produced cartg 125 mm FSAPSDS round that burst once.
The new 125 mm round was developed from OFB mk-2 ,which itself had 500 mm and was developed from IMI israeli round clone.It has around 610 mm.

As for autoloaders,sure they are fine.FOR NOW.In future arjun has space for further development ,others no real growth potential.

 

[Dazzler]

Lad, i already mentioned the round, its Israeli CL-II series with 500 mm penetration, worse than BM-42 Mango.

The one India manugacturing has had flaws in combustible charge and is being reworked its name is AMK-340

Invar is nothing but a renamed Reflex ATGM

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Lad, i already mentioned the round, its Israeli CL-II series with 500 mm penetration, worse than BM-42 Mango.

The one India manugacturing has had flaws in combustible charge and is being reworked its name is AMK-340

Invar is nothing but a renamed Reflex ATGM

Man thats the mk-2 round with 500 mm ,the new round had 610 mm.It was developed from this round.Also i think there's a tender ongoing for t-90 ammo currently.

Also i hope u are satisfied with the turret geometry flaws in al khalid argument?