PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

[Lyrical Mockery]

Your WHOLE post is just "speculations" and nothing more. Just a good way to make indian kids happy. As it stands, Al Khalid-1 is superior to Arjun-1. I'm not even talking about Arjun-II, why are you bringing that in?

Stated "ROF" of Arjun is 6-8 rounds while you claim "Oh it can even fire 10-12"..Well any official source? Many things in Al Khalid-1 would also be classified..probably it can fire 14-16 rounds at ease? You know there is no end to speculations. So you can believe whatever you want, but according to the public authentic information, Al Khalid-1 stands superior to Arjun-1 with more firepower, better mobility, better pick-up rate (Al Khalid has superior power/weight ratio..) etc. Also, the excuse "Oh our rounds are longer hence we can carry less" is THE most childish thing I've ever seen. If you want to cry like that, I'll say it right now "Arjun is vastly superior to all tanks in the world"..I mean, c'mon....

Al Khalid carries way more rounds, has autoloader, can fire DU rounds and missiles, has better pick-up speed, has bigger canon, has superior operational range, is lighter and faster than Arjun.

Now these are the "facts" available out there...

We are all free to believe whatever we want though...

My conclusion still stands : Al Khalid-1 > Arjun.

Why did you even asked others to correct your mistakes in that case?

 

[farhan_9909]

@DARKY
these are just thin metal plates

have a look at the side skirts of AK1

 

[Varunastra]

Al khalid vs T-90 -

weight-
ak-48 tonnes
t-90-47.5 tonnes

speed-
ak-72 km/h
t-90-65 km/h

main armament-
ak-125 mm
t-90- 125 mm

Armour-
ak-Composite armour, RHA, ERA
t-90-3-three-tiered" protection systems, Steel-composite-reactive blend
vs APFSDS: 700–800 with Kontakt-5 = 830-950mm; vs HEAT: 780–1000 with Kontakt-5 = 1,350–1,650mm

operational range-
ak-500 km
t-90-550-700 km

protection-
ak- VARTA active protection system
t-90- LEDS-150 Land Electronic Defence System.

ATGMs and rounds carried :
ak-Kombat , 9M119 Refleks (AT-11 Sniper), APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS etc.
- Can fire DU round Naiza too.

t-90- armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS), high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT-FS), and high explosive fragmentation (HE-FRAG) ammunition, as well as 9M119M Refleks anti-tank guided missiles.

rate of fire-
ak- 8-9 rounds per minute.
t-90- 9-10 rounds per minute

Engine :

Al Khalid-1 : KMDB 6TD-2 6-cylinder diesel 1,200 hp (with upgrade)

T-90-1,250 hp (930 kW) for V-96 12-cyl. diesel engine

Power/Weight :

Al Khalid-1 : 26 hp/tonne
T-90- 26.3 hp/tonne (19.8 kW/tonne) for V-96 12-cyl. diesel engine

SO i will say that T-90> al khalid

now check this Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90


arjun-

al khalid-

t-90-

 

[Teeta]

Why did you even asked others to correct your mistakes in that case?

Well correct my "mistakes" but not by your speculations.

There is a difference my boy.

I haven't found anything stating Arjun's ROF to be somewhere around over 15...

Al Khalid-1 carries way more rounds...and has more firepower...these are plain facts. Now to give excuses "Oh, but our rounds are longer" is just plain childish

We used to do that in Cold-War era. No one will EVER accept that Soviets had a lead in some technologies over US. You guys are in same mode.

Pakistanis will always utter their product to be best, indians will do the same...

You both can learn from each other alot though...

Al khalid vs T-90 -

weight-
ak-48 tonnes
t-90-47.5 tonnes

speed-
ak-72 km/h
t-90-65 km/h

main armament-
ak-125 mm
t-90- 125 mm

Armour-
ak-Composite armour, RHA, ERA
t-90-3-three-tiered" protection systems, Steel-composite-reactive blend
vs APFSDS: 700–800 with Kontakt-5 = 830-950mm; vs HEAT: 780–1000 with Kontakt-5 = 1,350–1,650mm

operational range-
ak-500 km
t-90-550-700 km

protection-
ak- VARTA active protection system
t-90- LEDS-150 Land Electronic Defence System.

ATGMs and rounds carried :
ak-Kombat , 9M119 Refleks (AT-11 Sniper), APFSDS, HEAT-FS and HE-FS etc.
- Can fire DU round Naiza too.

t-90- armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot (APFSDS), high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT-FS), and high explosive fragmentation (HE-FRAG) ammunition, as well as 9M119M Refleks anti-tank guided missiles.

rate of fire-
ak- 8-9 rounds per minute.
t-90- 9-10 rounds per minute

Engine :

Al Khalid-1 : KMDB 6TD-2 6-cylinder diesel 1,200 hp (with upgrade)

T-90-1,250 hp (930 kW) for V-96 12-cyl. diesel engine

Power/Weight :

Al Khalid-1 : 26 hp/tonne
T-90- 26.3 hp/tonne (19.8 kW/tonne) for V-96 12-cyl. diesel engine

SO i will say that T-90> al khalid

now check this Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90


arjun-

al khalid-

t-90-

What T-90 model did you use?

And don't make it a joke. So T-90 is 0.5 tons lighter than Al-Khalid and hence an "advantage"? Give me a freakin' break....

It should be atleast a difference of 10 tons! Learn how tanks are classified etc...

Also, your specs are just bs....specify which variant you are using. It seems that you have taken the 'best specs' of all variants and combined them into one! LOL.

Al Khalid is superior to T-90S (which is export version of T-90). And this fact is admitted by.......RUSSIAN POSTERS on this forum.

But India receives a bit 'upgraded' version of T-90S...so post the specs of that T-90 and we'll see...

T-90 would be superior to Arjuns offcourse, but are they superior to Al Khalids too? Can't say. It depends on what variant of T-90s you are using...

There is a reason your army is buying T-90s instead of Arjuns...

 

[Storm Force]

alkhalid looks like a soviert era T72 or ukrainian T85

cramped style WEAK ARMOUR

arjun looks like you GERMAN & BRITISH TANKS like leopord & challenger

THE REASON THERE ARE 800+ T90s and only 150 odd ARJUNS is simple ARJUN arrived a decade later..

ARJUN & T90 will spearhead indian armour

 

[farhan_9909]

alkhalid looks like a soviert era T72 or ukrainian T85

cramped style WEAK ARMOUR

arjun looks like you GERMAN & BRITISH TANKS like leopord & challenger

THE REASON THERE ARE 800+ T90s and only 150 odd ARJUNS is simple ARJUN arrived a decade later..

ARJUN & T90 will spearhead indian armour

and do you know why?

because Arjun was designed by krauss(germany directly)

arjun tank

now leopard2a4

arjun is more of an cheap copy of leopard 2a4 under license from germany

 

[Storm Force]

I would hardley call ARJUN cheap at $5m each

I BELIEVE YOUR alkhalids are costong around $1.5m each and the 1650 T90 that INDIA ARE LICENSE BUILDING are $3.5 m each

ARJUN carries twice the armour thickness of all other pak and indian tanks

I WOULD SUGGEST ARJUN is the heavy calvery of the indian army. SOMETHING many armies in ASIA CANT AFFORD to buy and operate.

THAT LOOKS A BEAST

COMPARE ALKHALID

arjun looks massive in comprison and FAR COSTLIER to buy i think

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Arjun is an export variant of German Leopard II specifically designed for Indian requirements.

I would hardley call ARJUN cheap at $5m each

I BELIEVE YOUR alkhalids are costong around $1.5m each and the 1650 T90 that INDIA ARE LICENSE BUILDING are $3.5 m each

ARJUN carries twice the armour thickness of all other pak and indian tanks

I WOULD SUGGEST ARJUN is the heavy calvery of the indian army. SOMETHING many armies in ASIA CANT AFFORD to buy and operate.

THAT LOOKS A BEAST

COMPARE ALKHALID

arjun looks massive in comprison and FAR COSTLIER to buy i think

Bigger is not always better. India should learn something from the outcome of WWII tank battles between ussr and germany. Germans had far superior tanks but still they were toasted by t34 and kv1.

 

[farhan_9909]

I would hardley call ARJUN cheap at $5m each

I BELIEVE YOUR alkhalids are costong around $1.5m each and the 1650 T90 that INDIA ARE LICENSE BUILDING are $3.5 m each

ARJUN carries twice the armour thickness of all other pak and indian tanks

I WOULD SUGGEST ARJUN is the heavy calvery of the indian army. SOMETHING many armies in ASIA CANT AFFORD to buy and operate.

THAT LOOKS A BEAST

COMPARE ALKHALID

arjun looks massive in comprison and FAR COSTLIER to buy i think

arjun cost high because even the tracks are imported from germany

Mbt-2000 is just recently exported to bangladesh by china for each 4.5millions USD
MBt-2000 has no western fcs,transmission,suspension,ukrainian engine,kombat atgm,new era,better gun, but still cost 4.5millions each


arjun is actually a german product under tot to india

124 arjuns tanks ordered in 2004 while delivered in 2011.very slow production

 

[500]

and do you know why?

because Arjun was designed by krauss(germany directly)

arjun tank

now leopard2a4

arjun is more of an cheap copy of leopard 2a4 under license from germany

Arjun has nothing to do with Leo.

 

[Teeta]

I would hardley call ARJUN cheap at $5m each

I BELIEVE YOUR alkhalids are costong around $1.5m each and the 1650 T90 that INDIA ARE LICENSE BUILDING are $3.5 m each

ARJUN carries twice the armour thickness of all other pak and indian tanks

I WOULD SUGGEST ARJUN is the heavy calvery of the indian army. SOMETHING many armies in ASIA CANT AFFORD to buy and operate.

THAT LOOKS A BEAST

COMPARE ALKHALID

arjun looks massive in comprison and FAR COSTLIER to buy i think

$ 5 million per piece with this capability? Arjun doesn't seem so "indigenous" here......

Four every 4 to 6 Arjun tanks produced, Pakistan will produce 13 or 14 Al Khalid-1 tanks...

13 Al Khalid-1s vs 4 Arjuns?

Complete victory for Pakistan here as long as project goes.

Al Khalid project is vastly successful as compared to Arjun project.

 

[DARKY]

Your WHOLE post is just "speculations" and nothing more. Just a good way to make indian kids happy. As it stands, Al Khalid-1 is superior to Arjun-1. I'm not even talking about Arjun-II, why are you bringing that in?

Stated "ROF" of Arjun is 6-8 rounds while you claim "Oh it can even fire 10-12"..Well any official source? Many things in Al Khalid-1 would also be classified..probably it can fire 14-16 rounds at ease? You know there is no end to speculations. So you can believe whatever you want, but according to the public authentic information, Al Khalid-1 stands superior to Arjun-1 with more firepower, better mobility, better pick-up rate (Al Khalid has superior power/weight ratio..) etc. Also, the excuse "Oh our rounds are longer hence we can carry less" is THE most childish thing I've ever seen. If you want to cry like that, I'll say it right now "Arjun is vastly superior to all tanks in the world"..I mean, c'mon....

Al Khalid carries way more rounds, has autoloader, can fire DU rounds and missiles, has better pick-up speed, has bigger canon, has superior operational range, is lighter and faster than Arjun.

Now these are the "facts" available out there...

We are all free to believe whatever we want though...

My conclusion still stands : Al Khalid-1 > Arjun.

I see its pointless arguing on this as you have made it clear that Al Khalid is better than Arjun no matter what----

8-6 rounds per minute is average.
It can be upto 15 rounds in a minute by a well built loader.... no the auto-loader can only do 8 rounds per minute... you can read about the limitations on fofanov's blog.

you are a moron and you are here to troll... Physics says that longer and heavier round imparts more K.E. and have better penetration levels... what two or three rounds of Al Khalid does can be done by a single round from arjun or two.
Most western MBTs too use longer rods specifically.

Auto-loader limits the size of round... more round on Al Khalid can be suicidal for the tank itself.. as they are stored in open.
Arjun too fires Lahat which has top attack capability.

They are not facts but your troll fantasies... yes you can eat whatever BS you want.

@DARKY
these are just thin metal plates

have a look at the side skirts of AK1

same rubber/low quality steel skirts no difference at all other than the design.

 

[DARKY]

and do you know why?

because Arjun was designed by krauss(germany directly)

arjun is more of an cheap copy of leopard 2a4 under license from germany

another pathetic troll.. get a life.

$ 5 million per piece with this capability? Arjun doesn't seem so "indigenous" here......

Four every 4 to 6 Arjun tanks produced, Pakistan will produce 13 or 14 Al Khalid-1 tanks...

13 Al Khalid-1s vs 4 Arjuns?

Complete victory for Pakistan here as long as project goes.

Al Khalid project is vastly successful as compared to Arjun project.

Going by your logic T-72 must be the best MBT around with over 25000+copies produced.
What a poor argument.

 

[Teeta]

I see its pointless arguing on this as you have made it clear that Al Khalid is better than Arjun no matter what----

8-6 rounds per minute is average.
It can be upto 15 rounds in a minute by a well built loader.... no the auto-loader can only do 8 rounds per minute... you can read about the limitations on fofanov's blog.

you are a moron and you are here to troll... Physics says that longer and heavier round imparts more K.E. and have better penetration levels... what two or three rounds of Al Khalid does can be done by a single round from arjun or two.
Most western MBTs too use longer rods specifically.

Auto-loader limits the size of round... more round on Al Khalid can be suicidal for the tank itself.. as they are stored in open.
Arjun too fires Lahat which has top attack capability.

They are not facts but your troll fantasies... yes you can eat whatever BS you want.

Why would I have an agenda to portray Al Khalid as superior? I just took the authentic available specs from both sides, and compared them, and Al Khalid-1 comes out to be superior than Arjun-1. As simple as that.

O.K lets put it in this way : "Average rate of fire" of Al Khalid-1 is superior to "Average rate of fire" of Arjun-1. Does this change anything now? Stop being a touchy kid.

I couldn't find the muzzle-velocity stats for Arjun..can you tell me what it this? Also, a rifled 120 mm gun can fire "longer rounds" but a smoothbore 125 mm gun can't? Oh c'mon! Autoloaders have limitations but they are a new technology in the tanks with obvious advantages. Autoloaders keep on getting improved. Al khalid-1 has an upgraded autoloader...

Unless you give me stats/facts of rounds used in both Al Khalid-1 and Arjun, you are just blabbering.

Al Khalid-1 and Arjun fire similar rounds, with Al Khalid-1 having the capability to fire DU rounds...it is just that Al Khalid-1 has more firepower as it carries more rounds, has autoloader, and a great FCS that allows it to fire more rounds per minute than Arjun...

Unlike you, I'm just talking on facts that I know.

Al Khalid-1 carries superior firepower and mobility than Arjun-1.

A fact.

 

[DARKY]

Arjun is an export variant of German Leopard II specifically designed for Indian requirements.



Bigger is not always better. India should learn something from the outcome of WWII tank battles between ussr and germany. Germans had far superior tanks but still they were toasted by t34 and kv1.

Hence over 2000 T-72M1 Ajeya to go with around 1000 T-90S Bheeshma.