Our yellow stars!

[Adnan81]

And what does the Quran teach you about the rights of minorities? Please educate me!



Again you go making this about the UK, we are talking about Pakistan here. Please stick to the topic but you can't because you have nothing to debate with!

Brother,
Asw,
First point is not that what are the right of minorities?
First question is who is state to decide that someone is Muslim and someone is not???
Are these mere humans Gods that they can decide on some ones faith???

 

[Verve]

What does the Holy Quran teach us about the rights of minorities?

Far more than what likes of France have legislated on.

Read the Quran for yourself to develop a first hand understanding.

 

[Wolfhunter]

Our land, our laws, our faith ... none of your issues but you want to keep butting in, for what gains?

But you are British? Which is it, are you British or are you Pakistani? If you are Pakistani please can you start by paying some taxes as Pakistan needs every working Pakistani to do it's bit to make it a strong, stable and prospoerous nation.

Any idiot can sit on the internet and talk platitudes, but put your money where your mouth is. So which is it? Are you British or are you Pakistani? Would you be willing to sacrifice your British Passport for load shedding, no security, no job security, no social welfare, no NHS, no free education....

I wonder if you had that option right now, which would you choose?

 

[Norwegian]

What does the Holy Quran teach us about the rights of minorities?

That someone from a minority cannot govern Muslim majority?

 

[Verve]

I am an Ahmadi Muslim

Shia and Sunni etc all call themselves Muslims, why do you make an exception to call yourself an Ahmadi Muslim? Why the additional identifier?

 

[Wolfhunter]

Read the Quran for yourself to develop a first hand understanding.

By the grace of god I have read the Quran, I am asking you to educate me. I am a mere Christian who reads the Quran in English, you being a Muslim may have a better understanding. Your Holy Quran says "bring forth a verse, Parable or proof thereof". So I ask you, bring forth your proof and evidence as to how the Quran teaches us to govern conduct with non Muslims?

 

[Verve]

But you are British? Which is it, are you British or are you Pakistani? If you are Pakistani please can you start by paying some taxes as Pakistan needs every working Pakistani to do it's bit to make it a strong, stable and prospoerous nation.

Any idiot can sit on the internet and talk platitudes, but put your money where your mouth is. So which is it? Are you British or are you Pakistani? Would you be willing to sacrifice your British Passport for load shedding, no security, no job security, no social welfare, no NHS, no free education....

I wonder if you had that option right now, which would you choose?

I pay taxes in UK and I invest in Pakistan. If constitution of Pakistan demands that I pay taxes on my earnings in UK, I will do so then. Law of land, but you idiots ignore that. Police trainer and this is what you think of laws?

 

[Wolfhunter]

Are these mere humans Gods that they can decide on some ones faith???

No one has the right to decide who can and cannot be Muslim/christian etc. In Christianity, your baptism is done by a priest but if you are not baptized you can take a vow to god, religion is between man and god, there is no "intercessor" isn't that what God teaches us in all three books?

I pay taxes in UK and I invest in Pakistan.

I seriously doubt you pay any taxes in the U.K and most likely your "investments" in Pakistan are in the form of property which is far from kosher! Don't lecture me about morality! .

 

[Verve]

By the grace of god I have read the Quran, I am asking you to educate me. I am a mere Christian who reads the Quran in English, you being a Muslim may have a better understanding. Your Holy Quran says "bring forth a verse, Parable or proof thereof". So I ask you, bring forth your proof and evidence as to how the Quran teaches us to govern conduct with non Muslims?

Now I have a soft spot for you, I must admit that.

I will quote the Verses later today, as I am heading out.

In short, Quran is explicit of rights of minorities and it is the state's responsibility to protect them.

 

[PAKjunoon]

“You are free, you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or cast or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State ... Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State”

You are not reading the whole speech and taking out of context.Even in this speech he did not say Pakistan was not to be an Islamic Country or an Islamic government.

Let me quote you another speech:
"I shall watch with keenness the work of your Research Organization in evolving banking practices compatible with Islamic ideals of social and economic life. The economic system of the West has created almost insoluble problems for humanity and to many of us it appears that only a miracle can save it from disaster that is not facing the world. It has failed to do justice between man and man and to eradicate friction from the international field. On the contrary, it was largely responsible for the two world wars in the last half century. The Western world, in spite of its advantages, of mechanization and industrial efficiency is today in a worse mess than ever before in history. The adoption of Western economic theory and practice will not help us in achieving our goal of creating a happy and contended people. We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind."

Speech on the occasion of the inauguration of the State Bank of Pakistan at Karachi, 1 July 1948.

Seems I know more about Pakistani History than Pakistanis on this forum. A word of advice I recommend reading "Jinnah: creator of Pakistan by Hector Bolitho".

Seems you know nothing. I recommend "Secular Jinnah & Pakistan" by Saleena Kareem.

Because Ahmedhi's are not safe in Pakistan, that's a start! Also please read my previous post in answer to your original question .

According to this graph majority of Ahmedis died in 2010,by TERRORIST ATTACK!

Not by the State.

These same terrorists have killed 100x more Muslims in Pakistan.
So tell me who are more penalized?

 

[Adnan81]

No one has the right to decide who can and cannot be Muslim/christian etc. In Christianity, your baptism is done by a priest but if you are not baptized you can take a woe to god, religion is between man and god, there is no "intercessor" isn't that what God teaches us in all three books?


I seriously doubt you pay any taxes in the U.K and most likely your "investments" in Pakistan are in the form of property which is far from kosher! Don't lecture me about morality! .

Asw,
Thats exactly in Islam if you say Shahadah you are a Muslim.
But thats not the Islam talked about in Pakistan unfortunately.
The Islam of Pakistan was hijacked by burqah clad mullahs who called it pladistan (land of impure) before independence. And later on hijacked it for their political gains in time of Bhutto and Zia.
Before that Pakistan was generally a tolerant nation.
Regards,
Adnan

 

[PAKjunoon]

Because religion is a personal affair, did god send you down with some stamp or authority on who can and can't be a Muslim.

Allah did define a muslim.

Why not, in the U.K we have Muslims in senior posts, even the Mayor London is a Muslim and so was the former head of counter-terrorism in London.

Because U.k is secular country not a religious country.

But Pakistan is a Religious country.

 

[Wolfhunter]

These same terrorists have killed 100x more Muslims in Pakistan.

We are talking about religious persecution here, I can debate terrorism with you if you wish, but we can do that by PM as I don't wish to derail this thread. I think we are onto something here. Are Ahmedhis not part of your country, you ask who is penalized more, does it need to be quantified? Is a Muslim life wroth more than an Ahmedhi?

You people keep talking about "Muslims" as if Muslims are the only people living in Pakistan. I don't know if you know this but it was 3 Christian votes that led to the creation of West-Punjba. When the Christian members of league were entering the Constituent Assembly Master Tarah Singh shouted at the stairs of the assembly: “Whoever demands Pakistan will get Qaberastan”, and in return, Mr SP Singha (Christian member of the Punjab Assembly) replied: “We will have the bullets in our chest but we will get Pakistan”.

The Christians believed in Jinnah, Also upon his request, Christian leadership appeared before the Punjab Boundary Commission along with the 35 prominent Christians and asked the boundary commissioner Sir Cyril Redcliffe to consider Christians as part of Pakistan.

Will you cast aside all the good Ahmedhi and Christians and other minorities have done? Names like Abdul Salam, Justice A R Cornelius, Mr Justice Bhagwan Dass, Cecil Chaudhry, Peter O Reilly, and Mervyn L Moddlecoat?

On Mr. Jinnah’s 64th birthday, celebrated on December 25, 1940, Rao Bahadur M.C. Rajah, a Hindu leader of untouchable classes said in his address that “I admire Mr Jinnah and feel grateful to him because, in advocating the cause of the Muslims, he is championing the claims of all classes who stand the danger of being crushed under the steam roller of a [caste-] Hindu majority.”

Similarly, C.E. Gibbon, the founder president of Anglo-Indian Association of Pakistan (also deputy speaker of the National Assembly of Pakistan), informed the commission that “Speaking on behalf of my community … The Anglo-Indians are happy to be in Pakistan. They regard Lahore and the West Punjab as their homeland.”

Pakistan was created just as much for the minorities as for the Muslims. Do not forget what the "white" in your flag stands for!

 

[PAKjunoon]

How Pakistan is an Islamic State where President and crushing majority of MNAs etc are found on regular basis with corruption, charges etc. Where crime rate is far worst than many secular and quite shamefully worst then even atheist or non godly countries or societies. Or (God forbid) Islam is only there to condemn others to be infidels or Kafirs and it is no where to be seen in practice. So if all Muslims are so pious and upright than why so much corruption, violence in our beloved country.
Have you ever the contributions of minorities in building Pakistan.
Why discrimination in name of the most beloved Religion of Islam???

Pakistan is an Islamic country because Islam was the basis of creation of Pakistan,it is an Islamic country because it is officially declared as an Islamic country in the constitution,whose objective is to implement Islamic Laws.
Not because of an MNA!

You are talking about secular countries?
The same secular countries that colonized half the world and killed millions.The same secular countries that are waging war on innocent Muslims all over the world?The same countries that back all the corrupt politicians in Asia?

A state and government of Islamic values was the goal, not a government and state of only Muslims. Wake up!

Who is saying that non-muslims are not allowed in Pakistan?

 

[Jugger]

We had a Hindu supreme court judge too.

Religion matters in a highly religious country, you need to step out of this secular cocoon and then assess.

In Pakistan Religion can't be a personal matter.

Because Pakistan is an Islamic country,based on Islamic Ideology and who's objective is to implement Islamic Laws in Pakistan.

That's why only a Muslim can be a President or PM of Pakistan.

And for that they need an official definition of "Muslim"

Which according to constitution of Pakistan is any person who believe in Allah and the Finality of Prophet(Peace Be Upon Him).

And Please tell me where the Quaid said that Islam and State should be separate?

Pakistan is presently unjust and unequal towards its minorities, that’s a fact. Confusion is rampant among the population as well as lack of proper direction for the country and its economy.

Inquality cannot survive in the modern times because we don’t live in kingdoms or authoritarian rule anymore.

So I think Pakistan will evolve into a just republic in the next 200 years as people grow out of religious mindset and intolerance.

Already the seeds of secularism is sown in Pakistan. The endgame will be beneficial for everyone in Pakistan including each and every religious minority.