Our yellow stars!

[PAKjunoon]

Asw,
Wrong definition of Muslims.
This is right one by no one but Holy Prophet s.a.w himself:

In this context, I quote below, two sayings of the Holy Prophet (PBUH):

1. Hazrat Abu Hurairah relates that the Holy Prophet (PBUH) said :’Ask me question”, but (his companions) were diffident to ask. Meanwhile, a man came in and sat in front of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and asked: ‘What is Islam?” The Holy Prophet (PBUH) replied: ‘Do not associate partners with Allah, offer prayer, pay Zakat and fast in Ramadhan’. The man replied: ‘You have spoken the truth’. (Muslim – Kithab ul Iman.)

2. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: ‘One who observes the same prayer as we do, faces the same direction (in prayer) as we do, and partakes from the animal slaughtered by us, then such a one is a Muslim concerning whom there is a covenant of Allah and His Messenger; so you must not seek to hoodwink Allah in the matter of this Covenant’. (Bukhari – Kitabus Salat, Baab – Fazl Istiqbal Il Qibla)

WRONG!

To become muslim you need to recite the KALIMA only.

Asking is not unequal but forcing to declare is discriminatory.
You have used the word asking please use the correct word i.e forcing.

So if a western gov. asks a someone to declare his assets and affiliation then it will also be discriminatory?

Since Pakistan is a non secular state, all religious minority are by constitution inferior to a Muslim ( to be clear:Sunni man)
They can never attain the high posts in your government.

How being a non-Muslim makes them inferior to contitution. Please show me where they are declared inferior in constitution.

They can attain all posts except President and Prime Minister.And many Minority have attained very high and sensitive posts in Pakistan.

 

[Adnan81]

All the articles are mentioning an incident which happened in In Dec,2016.

I agree it was wrong.But on basis of 1 or 2 incident you can't declare state persecution.

These wer don by non governmental groups. Not the state.

More muslim on muslim violence happen as compared to
Muslim on Ahmedis. But still it is not supported by the State in anyway.

Stop creating a perception that the State is persecuting Ahmedis.

Asw,
Brother here are some links to open your eyes:

https://www.persecutionofahmadis.org/ahmadi-families-leaving-dulmial-village-after-mob-violence/

Or

https://www.persecutionofahmadis.org/ahmadi-worship-place-attacked-in-chakwal/

Or

https://www.persecutionofahmadis.org/press-release-an-ahmadi-kahliq-ahmad-killed-in-karachi/

Or

https://www.persecutionofahmadis.or...meed-ahmad-killed-due-to-his-faith-in-attock/

Or

https://www.persecutionofahmadis.org/unjust-sentence-of-long-imprisonment-to-an-ahmadi-book-seller/

Or

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1DG04H

And this just tip of the iceberg.
Regards,
Adnan

 

[Adnan81]

WRONG!

To become muslim you need to recite the KALIMA only.



So if a western gov. asks a someone to declare his assets and affiliation then it will also be discriminatory?



How being a non-Muslim makes them inferior to contitution. Please show me where they are declared inferior in constitution.

They can attain all posts except President and Prime Minister.And many Minority have attained very high and sensitive posts in Pakistan.

Asw,
Ok have it your way.
Its Kalima you said hmm.

Thats what Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community says:
"We counsel our Jamaat to put true and sincere faith in the Holy Kalima, La Illaha Ill-Allah, Muhammad al-Rasul-Allah, to live and die by it,"
It was quoted in my response but you didnt read it all.
No problem i have picked it for you.
So we are back to the same question again. Who after this open statement can force us to be Non Muslims???

Or Sate of Pak is God (God forbid) so it can force somebody in and out of Islam???
Regards,
Adnan

 

[Jugger]

So if a western gov. asks a someone to declare his assets and affiliation then it will also be discriminatory?

Govt asks for assets to be declared for catching tax defaulters, similarly your govt wants to catch non Muslims, the actual purpose of knowing religion can be gauged easily in a religious state that supports one religion only, be assured it’s not beneficial for the person who does not follow the states religion.
Twisting arguments and giving vague examples will not correct the wrong you are supporting.

How being a non-Muslim makes them inferior to contitution. Please show me where they are declared inferior in constitution.

They can attain all posts except President and Prime Minister.And many Minority have attained very high and sensitive posts in Pakistan.

Tell that to your diplomat Ms Maleeha Lodhi who deleted her congratulation message to your only noble prize winner when she got to know he is Ahmadi.

Your constitution does not directly discriminate against non Muslims but does it indirectly i.e stealthily. It all started will calling certain people non Muslims, thus paving the way for their misfortune.

Putting a purdah on the rot will not make it go away, the stench will be there no matter what.

 

[Verve]

There is no such thing as "Christian Law".

But there are Quranic Laws that a Islamic state abides by. Pakistan was created for muslims and in the name of Islam, and word of Allah (i.e. The Quran) is the supreme law in Pakistan.

You asked for extract from the constitution, here it is:

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/preamble.html

Preamble
Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;

And whereas it is the will of the people of Pakistan to establish an order :-

Wherein the State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people;

Wherein the principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed;

Wherein the Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah;

Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities freely to profess and practise their religions and develop their cultures;

Wherein the territories now included in or in accession with Pakistan and such other territories as may hereafter be included in or accede to Pakistan shall form a Federation wherein the units will be autonomous with such boundaries and limitations on their powers and authority as may be prescribed;

Therein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights, including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality;

Wherein adequate provision shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes;

Wherein the independence of the judiciary shall be fully secured;

Wherein the integrity of the territories of the Federation, its independence and all its rights, including its sovereign rights on land, sea and air, shall be safeguarded;

So that the people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honoured place amongst the nations of the World and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity :

Now, therefore, we, the people of Pakistan,

Cognisant of our responsibility before Almighty Allah and men;

Cognisant of the sacrifices made by the people in the cause of Pakistan;

Faithful to the declaration made by the Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, that Pakistan would be a democratic State based on Islamic principles of social justice;

Dedicated to the preservation of democracy achieved by the unremitting struggle of the people against oppression and tyranny;

Inspired by the resolve to protect our national and political unity and solidarity by creating an egalitarian society through a new order;

Do hereby, through our representatives in the National Assembly, adopt, enact and give to ourselves, this Constitution.

As for how to determine if a person is muslim, ask any muslim anywhere this: Is a person muslim if he does not accept Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to be the last prophet?

As you have a copy of The Quran, please see Surah 33, Ayat 40 (Seal of Prophets).

Anyone claiming to be muslim will happily sign the declaration stating their belief of Prophet Muhammad being the last messenger of Allah. So why does signing this declaration pinch Ahmadis? When you find the answer (hint: below) then you will know why they are declared as non-muslims in the constitution. Senior clerics of Qadianis admitted that they claim their leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet (and anyone who doesn't accept that is a kafir/non-believer), and this consultation with them resulted in the clauses of constitution that have been posted in this thread already. This consultation was carried out in 70's before the 1973 Constitution was drawn up, under a powerful 'secular' Bhutto.

No Islamic country will allow two or multiple versions of Islam (or muslims) claiming new prophets. Kindly do not equate sects to versions.

Being a christian, Would you accept another person to be christian if he says that he believes his son is the prophet and it is still christianity?

Finally, there is no state persecution of Ahmadis.

 

[Jugger]

Therein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights, including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality;

The people in power all these years have failed to safeguard almost all of the above.
Constitution is always held lower in the eyes of many Pakistanis. calling it names such as man made laws which are not to be followed.

 

[Verve]

The people in power all these years have failed to safeguard almost all of the above.
Constitution is always held lower in the eyes of many Pakistanis. calling it names such as man made laws which are not to be followed.

What happened to Secular India? Killing over beef? Kindly bugger off, you are in no position to talk about Pakistan when the RSS Fascists are sitting in your government!

 

[Wolfhunter]

But there are Quranic Laws that a Islamic state abides by. Pakistan was created for muslims and in the name of Islam, and word of Allah (i.e. The Quran) is the supreme law in Pakistan.

You asked for extract from the constitution, here it is:

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/preamble.html

Preamble
Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;

And whereas it is the will of the people of Pakistan to establish an order :-

Wherein the State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people;

Wherein the principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed;

Wherein the Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah;

Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities freely to profess and practise their religions and develop their cultures;

Wherein the territories now included in or in accession with Pakistan and such other territories as may hereafter be included in or accede to Pakistan shall form a Federation wherein the units will be autonomous with such boundaries and limitations on their powers and authority as may be prescribed;

Therein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights, including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality;

Wherein adequate provision shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes;

Wherein the independence of the judiciary shall be fully secured;

Wherein the integrity of the territories of the Federation, its independence and all its rights, including its sovereign rights on land, sea and air, shall be safeguarded;

So that the people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honoured place amongst the nations of the World and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity :

Now, therefore, we, the people of Pakistan,

Cognisant of our responsibility before Almighty Allah and men;

Cognisant of the sacrifices made by the people in the cause of Pakistan;

Faithful to the declaration made by the Founder of Pakistan, Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, that Pakistan would be a democratic State based on Islamic principles of social justice;

Dedicated to the preservation of democracy achieved by the unremitting struggle of the people against oppression and tyranny;

Inspired by the resolve to protect our national and political unity and solidarity by creating an egalitarian society through a new order;

Do hereby, through our representatives in the National Assembly, adopt, enact and give to ourselves, this Constitution.

As for how to determine if a person is muslim, ask any muslim anywhere this: Is a person muslim if he does not accept Prophet Muhammad (PBOH) to be the last prophet?

As you have a copy of The Quran, please see Surah 33, Ayat 40 (Seal of Prophets).

Anyone claiming to be muslim will happily sign the declaration stating their belief of Prophet Muhammad being the last messenger of Allah. So why does signing this declaration pinch Ahmadis? When you find the answer (hint: below) then you will know why they are declared as non-muslims in the constitution. Senior clerics of Qadianis admitted that they claim their leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet (and anyone who doesn't accept that is a kafir/non-believer), and this consultation with them resulted in the clauses of constitution that have been posted in this thread already. This consultation was carried out in 70's before the 1973 Constitution was drawn up, under a powerful 'secular' Bhutto.

No Islamic country will allow two or multiple versions of Islam (or muslims) claiming new prophets. Kindly do not equate sects to versions.

Being a christian, Would you accept another person to be christian if he says that he believes his son is the prophet and it is still christianity?

Finally, there is no state persecution of Ahmadis.

Thank you for sharing this. Please allow me time to read it with the respect it deserves .

 

[Jugger]

What happened to Secular India? Killing over beef? Kindly bugger off, you are in no position to talk about Pakistan when the RSS Fascists are sitting in your government!

But we don’t throw our constitution in the garbage as easily as some Pakistan members do.
Demeaning it by saying it’s , man made law..!!

Don’t try to divert attention to India and Modi, you guys always try to deflect the topic by doing such antics.

 

[Musafir117]

we had no other choice
and Guess what that Christian Chief did? refused to send troops to Kashmir front when we needed them there most
Wo tou Allah Ballah karay Tribals ka k aj 39% kashmir hmare pass ha


No please also share figure of Muslims killed in anti Muslim Attacks #StopMuslimPersecution

Thanks to Jamat e Ahamdiyya who under Army makes Furqan Battalion and fight for Kashmir, Forget to mentioned that or intentionaly you not like to mentioned ?

 

[Reichsmarschall]

orget to mentioned that or intentionaly you not like to mentioned ?

didnt knew about them

 

[Verve]

Thanks to Jamat e Ahamdiyya who under Army makes Furqan Battalion and fight for Kashmir, Forget to mentioned that or intentionaly you not like to mentioned ?

It was also an Ahmadi, the first foreign minister Sir Zafrullah Khan, who refused to perform/be part of namaz-e-janaza of Qaid-a-Azam, and reason he gave was that he would not perform namaz-e-janaza for one who is not a muslim according to his religious belief.

 

[Musafir117]

It was also an Ahmadi, the first foreign minister Sir Zafrullah Khan, who refused to perform/be part of namaz-e-janaza of Qaid-a-Azam, and reason he gave was that he would not perform namaz-e-janaza for one who is not a muslim according to his religious belief.

As usual you just trying to divert attention noting new. Second thing you like other brainwashed by your mullas and lazy so much to find the truth by yourself, just like other guy above “ I didn’t knew that “ ( the Furqan Battalion)
He did went to Namaz e Janaza but avoid to pay it behind the mulla Usmani.


Sir Zafarullah Khan went to attend Jinnah`s funeral . In his own words :

“So! My intention in being there was to offer the congregational prayers along with everyone else—- if I had not intended and fervently desired to pray for my leader, would it not have been more logical and make sense for me have stayed home— and not having come to the funeral?

He did not attend the funeral , not because he wanted some Ahmedi to lead it (which was very unlikely anyways) , but because it was being led by a person who considered ahmedis to be kafir , In words of Zafarullah Khan :

“I was told that the cleric (mullah) who was to lead the prayer was none other than a person named Shabir Usmani who had used vile and abusive language against the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement.”

Now tell me that will any one offer prayers behind a person who abuses his prophet / Messiah ??

This man (Shabbir Usmani) had declared that Shia were Kafir too , ironically he led the public funeral prayers of Jinnah ; A Shia whose coffin was transported from the Governor’s House to the burial location constantly accompanied by a black Alam (flag) on which was inscribed “Ya Hazrat-e-Abbas” !!!

“The [Sindh High] court pro-ceedings bear evidence of the last rites observed by Miss Jinnah immediately after her brother’s death. Witness Syed Anisul Hasnain, a Shia scholar, deposed that he had arranged the ghusl (last bath) of Jinnah on the instructions of Miss Jin-nah. He led his namaz-e janaza (funeral prayer) in a room of the Governor General’s House at which such Shia luminaries as Yusuf Haroon, Hashim Raza and Aftab Hatim Alavi were present,while Liaquat Ali Khan, a Sunni, waited outside the room. !!

 

[Verve]

Now tell me that will any one offer prayers behind a person who abuses his prophet / Messiah ??

There is no provision for another prophet / messiah in Islam (Quran is clear on that) and anyone claiming &/or believing as such is not a muslim. I have no objections to a non-muslim not coming for namaz-e-jana of a muslim, not required to anyways.

So what's the crying about?

 

[Musafir117]

There is no provision for another prophet / messiah in Islam (Quran is clear on that) and anyone claiming &/or believing as such is not a muslim. I have no objections to a non-muslim not coming for namaz-e-jana of a muslim, not required to anyways.

So what's the crying about?

Ja oe Ahmaq maaf kar you proven to be wrong again and again and you continually coming back again with other stuff to just derail the topic.
You know who we call Padhe Likhe Jahil? Sorry to say but ahmaq like you.