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Ottoman Athens and the Parthenon Mosque (Osmanl Atina's)

Well Greeky Baby Boy.. if Pakistanis come and settle in Greece is it their right... Greeks forcefully lived in present day Pakistan for hundreds of years and created many Indo-Greek kingdoms.. then why can't we live in Greece?... I am visiting Greece next year.. welcome me with open arms.. :D :yahoo:

I am sorry? you lost me there..
 
your argument is childish because you are arguing a mosque is a mosque, when in reality (as the death of a lot of people has shown) it is a way deeper issue than that.

also If you want to take this rather more seriously, and you seem like you do, I suggest you read up on the issues surrounding the issue of the mosque in Athens.

There is a whole lot more going on than you think. Not just the building of a casual mosque. It takes effort to identify the issues on both sides. Let me enlighten you on some.

The location. Most suggestions for the mosque are under the Acropolis !!. ..seriously now.
The funding, either saudi arabia or turkey want to fund it. Which brings a question, why would either countries fund the biggest mosque in Europe in Athens? strange ...

Also, the saudis want the mosque to come with an islamic study center, while Turkey wants to assign the imam there? how strange is that? and why ?

Ownership ? Would a turkish funded mosque be under Greek jurisdiction? would turkey accept that? would any country accept a temple be under another country's jurisdiction ?

these are some of the issues you didn't seem to take under consideration, you see it from a religious point of view, and trust me, I wish it was just that.

you guys really are paranoid arent you? this starts to remind me of the "terror mosque" in new york. hahaha

Greeks have Islamophobia. it sure must be ok for you that muslims start praying in the middle of the street in Athen then since they dont have a plce of worship.

don't worry. they wont tell te people to "blow themself up"... if that is what you think.
 
Greeks are well known Islam haters, racist and little ***** of her sisters(Germany, French, UK, Russia and USA)... Athens is the one capital city which doesn't have a mosque for muslims. How barbaric a race is ?? They wont a mosque in Athens almost all of greeks are against it.

Hole Europe believe their culture based on greek culture. That's why Europeans are savage barbarians !! :coffee:
 
you guys really are paranoid arent you? this starts to remind me of the "terror mosque" in new york. hahaha

Greeks have Islamophobia. it sure must be ok for you that muslims start praying in the middle of the street in Athen then since they dont have a plce of worship.

don't worry. they wont tell te people to "blow themself up"... if that is what you think.

are you serious ?

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

Greeks are well known Islam haters, racist and little ***** of her sisters(Germany, French, UK, Russia and USA)... Athens is the one capital city which doesn't have a mosque for muslims. How barbaric a race is ?? They wont a mosque in Athens almost all of greeks are against it.

Hole Europe believe their culture based on greek culture. That's why Europeans are savage barbarians !! :coffee:

I think the moderators should take care of your post, it is insulting and evident of a troubled intellect.
 
i disagree with harsh comments against Greek people and amalakas. He acts responsible and mature. My sympathies...

Personally, i think we should let greeks do as they like. They Will suffer challenge when the dices are rolled in favor of Muslim countries.
 
are you serious ?

could you give me a reason for why the Muslims cant pray in the streets? they dont have a place to practice their religion.

will you get butthurt by letting muslims have a place to follow their religion? instead of popes going around and spewing propaganda about "christian martyrs" and stuff like that. it seems like the extreme ones here are the popes, not the muslims and their "terror mosques".
 
could you give me a reason for why the Muslims cant pray in the streets? they dont have a place to practice their religion.

will you get butthurt by letting muslims have a place to follow their religion? instead of popes going around and spewing propaganda about "christian martyrs" and stuff like that. it seems like the extreme ones here are the popes, not the muslims and their "terror mosques".

I have personally seen muslims both in Thessaloniki and Athens praying in public. Truly nobody cares and there were tens of Greeks walking around who paid no attention whatsoever.

why are you so convinced that Greeks have anything against people praying?
once more i am telling you and please hear me, that it is not the praying that is the problem.

And i have to say that a number of arguments posted here where slightly like comparing apples to oranges.

if you are convinced that i hate muslims, you will never open your eyes and see what I am telling you.

Not to mention that it seems that i have been around muslims and turks far more than you seem to have been around greeks of any sort.

also I don't care about the pope or whatever he says.These are other issues that have nothing to do with our discussion.
 
I have personally seen muslims both in Thessaloniki and Athens praying in public. Truly nobody cares and there were tens of Greeks walking around who paid no attention whatsoever.

why are you so convinced that Greeks have anything against people praying?
once more i am telling you and please hear me, that it is not the praying that is the problem.

And i have to say that a number of arguments posted here where slightly like comparing apples to oranges.

if you are convinced that i hate muslims, you will never open your eyes and see what I am telling you.

Not to mention that it seems that i have been around muslims and turks far more than you seem to have been around greeks of any sort.

also I don't care about the pope or whatever he says.These are other issues that have nothing to do with our discussion.

then tell me, what is the problem?

and no, i haven't met a single Greek in my life. maybe you should come over here from Sweden... :)
 
PARTHENON (İÇKALE) MOSQUE

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General view of the Acropolis during the first years of Ottoman Rule. The Parthenon is converted into a mosque and the whole surface is covered by houses.

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The Parthenon after the conversion into a mosque with the minaret in the southwest corner.

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View from the west.

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Part of the Acropolis from the north. Cannons were positioned all around the walls for better defense. On the left is the Erechtheum and in the background the Parthenon as a mosque.

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View of the Acropolis after 1687. The Propylaea and the Parthenon have suffered severe damages from the explosions.

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The destroyed Propylaea were used as a cannon battlement.

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The small mosque inside the Parthenon's ruins.

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Another view of the mosque. It was demolished in 1844.
thanks a lot you forummurat
 
I am sorry? you lost me there..

I was joking.. but what I really meant to say was why it is that if we are friends with Turkey, you guyz assume we hate Greece? You are saying bad things about Pakistan as if we Pakistanis are in direct conflict with Greeks... Majority of people in Pakistan don't even know where Greece is ;) and the educated ones who know have good opinion about Greece.. it is known as "Yunan" and personally I like Greek culture, mythology etc. Pakistanis should remain neutral between Turks/Greeks conflict. Similarly, Pakistan should remain neutral between Azerbaijan/Armenia conflict. Armenians never did anything wrong with Pakistanis, so who are we to take sides between them. As far as China is concerned, I understand bcoz both Chinese and Pakistanis have disputes with India.

In this forums it looks like any country which is friends with Pakistan (China, Turkey etc), countries who have conflicts with them automatically assume that for some reason Pakistanis hate that particular country. It reminds me of that Vietnamese guy, whose country is in conflict with China, but he is saying bad things about Pakistan.. What Pakistan has to do with Vietnam or other east Asian countries? Nothing!
 
I was joking.. but what I really meant to say was why it is that if we are friends with Turkey, you guyz assume we hate Greece? You are saying bad things about Pakistan as if we Pakistanis are in direct conflict with Greeks... Majority of people in Pakistan don't even know where Greece is ;) and the educated ones who know have good opinion about Greece.. it is known as "Yunan" and personally I like Greek culture, mythology etc. Pakistanis should remain neutral between Turks/Greeks conflict. Similarly, Pakistan should remain neutral between Azerbaijan/Armenia conflict. Armenians never did anything wrong with Pakistanis, so who are we to take sides between them. As far as China is concerned, I understand bcoz both Chinese and Pakistanis have disputes with India.

In this forums it looks like any country which is friends with Pakistan (China, Turkey etc), countries who have conflicts with them automatically assume that for some reason Pakistanis hate that particular country. It reminds me of that Vietnamese guy, whose country is in conflict with China, but he is saying bad things about Pakistan.. What Pakistan has to do with Vietnam or other east Asian countries? Nothing!

I believe you, just some comments by some people need answering. It doesn't mean anything more than that.

;)
 
Bulgarian Historian: The Ottoman Empire saved us from Extinction

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Bulgaria was part of a great state. Moreover, there are now 52 countries which were under the administration of the Ottoman Empire. All these states today, a modern independent state. These states stayed under the Ottoman Rule between 400 and 600 years as a integral part.

There is no nation, no one under the administration of the Ottoman Empire assimilated. All nations kept their faith, way of life and traditions.. No nation lost it's ethnic origin.

Come under the Ottoman rule of Bulgaria has kept our nation, our country at this time because it was at a very heavy. Bulgaria in 14. century very small, weak and divided to three. Divided Bulgarian territory would be divided between Serbia, Romania, Hungary and Venice. What would have us back? It's nothing. Ethnic identity, the unity of the arrival of the Ottomans gained unlimited again, even though a piece of this big community of Ottoman Empire. Dubrovnik, Vidin and Veliko Tŭrnovo again became a whole. The number of Bulgarians 1 and a half million. Bulgarian population in 1860's were 7 million, included in this number around northern Greece and Skopje.

Source in Turkish News Portal: Bulgar tarihçi: Bizi yok olmaktan Osmanl? kutard? | Röportaj | Dünya Bülteni
 
are you serious ?

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------



I think the moderators should take care of your post, it is insulting and evident of a troubled intellect.

Offended ?? The truth is that. You greeks are racist islam haters. Everyone knows that.
 
Historical Ottoman confession from Hungary

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Schmitt Thanks to Ottoman Empire

Pal Schmitt, the President of Hungary, praised Turks in his statement he made to the Spanish ABC newspaper:

"I consider old Turkish sovereignty in Hungary during 150 years as a real chance. If our country had been conquered not by the Turks but by other people, they would have obliged us to adopt their language and their religion. We would have been purely assimilated. The Turks shone by their tolerance. Hungary was, during 150 years, a strategic territory for the Turks."

[Spanish daily newspaper ABC; January 2011, Pal Schmitt]

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The Hungarian lands were invaded in 1541 by Suleiman the Magnificent and remained under Ottoman rule for 160 years.

According to Hungarian author Kald Nagy; Hungarian documents show that Ottoman Empire collected tax 7 million akçe in Hungary for all that has invested 21 million akçe in Hungary between 1558-1560..
 
TURKS FROM FOREIGN EYES

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An informal survey by an American professor −Justin McCarthy− at his university revealed Turks were Number One on the list of most despised ethnic groups in the USA... even though many of the people who cast these votes had no idea about Turks. They just knew Turks were "bad." Why is this?

“Anti-Turkish propaganda and discrimination is not only one of the oldest examples of psychological warfare, its duration surpasses by far even the leyenda negra which swept Spain, reaching a new peak in recent years due to concerted action by Yerevan and Athens. It is: a cocktail of inferiority complex, envy and ignorance; the fame of the Turkish heroism, fantasies of Turkish love life and history of Turkish civilization. All that created an atmosphere which had already culminated half a millennium ago… An answer is long overdue.” [Source: Eric Feigl, A Myth of Error -Not "Terror"!]

"Give a lie twenty-four hours start, and it will take a hundred years to overtake it." [C.F. Dixon-Johnson, British author of the 1916 book, ‘The Armenians’ appalled over the deceitful
practices of his book's subject.]

“There are two major virtues elevating human beings, a man's being brave and a woman's being virtuous. Beside these two virtues, there is a virtue that gives honor to men and women alike. Be faithful to motherland as much as sacrificing his/her life if necessary. Here it is! Turkish people are heroes having these virtues and honor. Hereby Turkish people can be killed however can not be defeated.” [Napoleon Bonaparte - Emperor of France]

“I am talking about the Turks... Resemble a cruel hurricane, a tremendous sea and merciless thunderbolt while attacking its enemy; Turks are like a dawn wind and a clear lake beside friends and against unarmed enemies. Deterrence of this open hearted wind and turning this glaring lake into an enthusiastic sea will be a carelessness that will also offend the nature.” [Tasso - Italian poet]

“Among all the nations Turks are the most virtuous and they are the only nation with no doubt to strike up a friendship. If you visit a village that is not under the foreign influence yet; you can experience and learn the real hospitality there.” [William Martin - British antiquarian and topographer; London]

“According to me Turks are the most noble and foremost ethnic group and nation among the societies living in wide empires. Religious, social and customary virtues are sources of appreciation and admiration.” [Lamartine - French Author, Poet and Statesman]

“I was captive in Poltava. This was a way of death for me, I was saved. Danger occurred more powerfully before Dnyester River; there was water before me, enemy behind me, and the sun sprewing out hells... Water claimed to suffocate me, enemy claimed to cut me into pieces and the sun claimed to melt me; I was again saved. However I am a captive today, I am the captive of the Turks. They did me what the iron, heat and water could not do, and they captivated me. Merely there is no chain on my leg, I am not in a prison; I can do whatever I want... However this time I am the captive of tenderness, nobility and kindness. Turks embrace me with this diamond affection. I want you to know how sweet is to live among a nation that is this much generous, noble and kind as an independent captive.” [Charles - Swedish King; he escaped from Russians and took refuge with Ottomans]

"We have studied the Turkish peasant — i.e. the mass of the Turkish people — and got to know him as unconditionally one of the bravest and most moral representatives of the European peasantry." [Karl Marx; speaking for himself and Engels, "Karl Marx: His Life and Thought," David McLellan, 1973, pp. 438-439]

“Turks know to die, they know too well. I am experienced enough to be aware of this; the nation that knows to die will not be defeated. Here it is possible to establish armies from the ground and it is possible to drag them to death. I take advantage of these opportunities largely. However, there is a barrier staggering these armies that I have established: Living memories of the Turks! Defeating every might and every nation before three-four centuries, Turks stumble every attempt by their indelible memories now. I feel this fear nearly in all hearts. It means that it is necessary not to defeat only Turks but also to defeat their history. In this case I understand the secret of Turks that manage dozens of nations. They defeat nations once but they can engrave their victory in spirits and generations.” [M. Montecuccoli; Austrian commander]

“According to courage and bravery and also being sapient in reaching great goals there is no other society superior to Turks. God creates them in the capacity of lions.” [Ibn-I-Hassul]

“A Turk is the noblest among the nobles, this high nobility without show and artificiality is the present of the nature to him.” [Pierre Loti - French author]

“Turks not only have an eternal bravery but also have a magician intelligence that confused wills. Here! Turks win a victory, create civilizations and achieves the most honorable service in the world of humanity with his intelligence. Anyhow it could not be possible to apprehend half of the Europe under the yoke during centuries.” [Charmayev - Russian Commander]

“Turks are the most living sample of an armed nation. There is a paw energy embracing arms in land villager's holding hook, clerk's holding pen and also women's holding their skirts. Turks sit as mounting on a horse and walks like a soldier sent to investigation.” [Helmuth Karl Bernhard von Moltke]

“Turks according to blood and nation are the most glorious people of the world.” [La Martine]

“Anybody who wants to enjoy the war should fight against Turks.” [Townsend; English Commander]

“Being a Turk is the greatest ornament of Turkish women. They do not wear diamond or emerald in order to dress up, maybe they give value and they decorate the stones on them. Since each of the Turkish woman is a living pearl and a priceless diamond.” [Lady Mary Wortley Montagu; English aristocrat and writer]

“Turks are good hearted. There are no null and void ideas in their minds.” [Semame-Ibn-I-Esres; famous scholar]

“The unique thing Turks like is justice and truth. And they suffered wrong although they did not do any wrong.” [William Pitt; English Statesman]

“Turks are brave and they do not give harm to their friends. High Turkish nation do not leave the hand that it holds, do not go back from its word and do not leave its friends alone in good and bad days. Joining hands with such a nation means that gaining an eternal power and ability to come over any kind of difficulty.” [Comenius; Czech Scholar]

“I do not fight against Turks anymore. They are very brave and good hearted people.” [Andreas Phitiades]

“There is two unknown in the world. One is axles, the other one is Turks.” [Albert Sorel; French historian]

“If the power of ten brave men of ten nations gathers in one human being, it will not be worth a Turk. The most spoken subjects among Turks are war, victory. Their entertainments are horse and gun. It is appropriate to praise as much as possible honesty and chastity of Turks.” [Charles Mcfarlene]

“We could not be successful in Çannakale (Dardanelles & Gallipoli). How could we be? Since Turks were fighting with an anger, courage and bravery of a lion for the reason of its home. I have never seen a nation like this!” [Sir Julien Corbet]

"The centuries rarely produce a genius. Look at this bad luck of ours, that great genius of our era was granted to the Turkish nation." [David Lloyd George, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, after his nation's plans to wipe Turkey off the face of the earth ran into a snag.]

“In all the relations between social system and Turks, simple heartedness and good will are dominant. There is no need to issue a bill of exchange in other words a written document as in countries in the case of situations that citizens are indebted to one another. Since one of the worth praising values of them are their loyalty to their word and their hesitation to cheat on anybody and abuse their confidence.” [Monradgea D'Ohsson]

"I consider old Turkish sovereignty in Hungary during 150 years as a real chance. If our country had been conquered not by the Turks but by other people, they would have obliged us to adopt their language and their religion. We would have been purely assimilated. The Turks shone by their tolerance. Hungary was, during 150 years, a strategic territory for the Turks." [In an interview granted to the Spanish daily newspaper ABC; January 2011, Pal Schmitt, president of Hungary declared: I consider that it is a real chance for us to be ruled/governed
by the Turks during 150 years.]

“The Turkish sound captured the imagination of the Viennese masters, who attempted to recreate it in their orchestral and theatrical works. Haydn wrote three military symphonies, Beethoven composed three orchestral works with Turkish percussion (including his monumental Symphony No. 9, which has a Turkish march in the last movement), and Mozart and Haydn, among others, used this military sound in their operas. The Janissary chorus [from Die Entführung] is all that can be desired, that is, short, lively, and written to please the Viennese. The influence was felt even in piano music—notably in Mozart's appealing Rondo alla turca from his Sonata in A major, which we will hear. So popular was this style that some nineteenth-century pianos featured a "Janissary pedal" to add percussive effects. (…) The fascination with Turkish music affected the makeup of the Western orchestra by establishing percussion instruments of Turkish origin (bass drum, cymbals, bells, triangle) as permanent members of the ensemble. It's hard to imagine an orchestra today without them! The Turkish Janissary ensemble also influenced the military band in the West; these same instruments now form the heart of every marching and concert band. Beethoven was fascinated by another Turkish musical tradition—this one a mystical religious ceremony to which he alluded in his incidental music for the stage work.” [Kristine Forney & Joseph Machlis; The Enjoyment of Music, 10e Cultural Perspectives; East Meets West: Turkish Influences on the Viennese Classics]

''Vienna developed into a cultural center in the early 18th century and the fascination with Turkish culture worked its way into plays and operas.'' [Edward J. Hines, American composer]

“Cafes began serving Turkish coffee in Vienna, and Turkish dress became fashionable at social events. The harbinger of war became the music of the people. Haydn wrote his Military Symphony, and Mozart composed the popular piano sonata Rondo Alla Turca under the influence of this music. Mozart also employed Turkish instruments in the opera ‘The Abduction From the Seraglio’, while Beethoven used Mehter-style big drums in his Ninth Symphony. Cymbals, timpani drums and bells left behind by the retreating Ottoman armies were modified and incorporated into symphonic orchestras, while several European armies set up military bands similar to the Mehter. Even today the percussion departments of orchestras are occasionally called the Turkish section.” [Excerpts from an AP article entitled, "Once-frightening Turkish bands now delight visitors." Mar. 10, 2002, The Miami Herald]

“It is necessary to pass over history in order not to understand Turks. Being solemn against unfair attacks and inferior accusations, undoubtedly it is because of Turks thought that blind people could not understand reality and property and Turks feel pity for blind people. This noble behavior is what a clear answer to those inferior accusations.” [Pierre Loti - French Author]
 

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