Options for PAF After India Selects Rafale for MMRCA

[Icewolf]

no worries we'll be finished producing JF-17 block II or III (both are stealth optimized) and we're working on J-2X with china

 

[IndoUS]

Very likely pakistan won't even get them.

I would say it will depend on the price tag. If China can produce the Aircraft cheaply, and will it be willing to sell its high end technology for such a cheap price to other countries.

 

[Edevelop]

Pakistan is in no position to buy EF or Rafales, your economic sitution is bad and only china remains question is will it give you weapons like the US does to Israel ?

India has got many different types of aircrafts now: Su-30, Rafale, Mirage 2k, Mig-29, LCA...
All these have slight differences, i mean it may be that one has more hard points than the other, better weapon carrying, better radar, better turn rate, better engine, and etc....

I don't think its game over from Pakistan's side. We really don't need to spend billions on just buying something that has improved payload, and better weapon carrying, and or something that has a new look.

Rather, it would be cheap and effective if JF-17s and J-10s try to improve in later blocks.
Already, some people claim that JF-17 blk 1 has a lower RCA than the F-16 block 52. Moreover, it has an improved radar,KLJ-7, something PAF officials claim to be as capable as the French RC-400. In JF-17 block 2, we are going to have AESA radar and refuelling probes, and IRST. Don't forget, JF-17 has the option of going for WS-13 engine, something more powerful than the RD-93. Last but not least, we had opted to go with J-10B, something we think is better than J-10A.

Other weapons include:

Air defence systems: Spada 2000, Anza Mk1,Mk2, HQ-2, HQ-9, Fim-92 Stinger, Cortale 4000
Cruise Missiles: Babur (Hatf VII), Hatf-VIII (Ra'ad)
Ballistic Misisles: Shaheen 1, 2, Ghauri 1,2, Ghaznavi, Abdali, Nazr, etc...
BVR: SD-10 A, B
Awacs: Eriey, ZDK-03, Falcon 20
Nuclear war heads: 100+


If we can improve little things just like that and plus have them in large quantities, then that is the best possible thing to do right now to counter India.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

India has got many different types of aircrafts now: Su-30, Rafale, Mirage 2k, Mig-29, LCA...
All these have slight differences, i mean it may be that one has more hard points than the other, better weapon carrying, better radar, better turn rate, better engine, and etc....

I don't think its game over from Pakistan's side. We really don't need to spend billions on just buying something that has improved payload, and better weapon carrying, and or something that has a new look.

Rather, it would be cheap and effective if JF-17s and J-10s try to improve in later blocks.
Already, some people claim that JF-17 blk 1 has a lower RCA than the F-16 block 52. Moreover, it has an improved radar,KLJ-7, something PAF officials claim to be as capable as the French RC-400. In JF-17 block 2, we are going to have AESA radar and refuelling probes, and IRST. Don't forget, JF-17 has the option of going for WS-13 engine, something more powerful than the RD-93. Last but not least, we had opted to go with J-10B, something we think is better than J-10A.

Other weapons include:

Air defence systems: Spada 2000, Anza Mk1,Mk2, HQ-2, HQ-9, Fim-92 Stinger, Cortale 4000
Cruise Missiles: Babur (Hatf VII), Hatf-VIII (Ra'ad)
Ballistic Misisles: Shaheen 1, 2, Ghauri 1,2, Ghaznavi, Abdali, Nazr, etc...
BVR: SD-10 A, B
Awacs: Eriey, ZDK-03, Falcon 20
Nuclear war heads: 100+


If we can improve little things just like that and plus have them in large quantities, then that is the best possible thing to do right now to counter India.

Something I agree on you should also look into the HQ-16 to replace HQ-9.

 

[IndianArmy]

I have said this before and will repeat again..... moving on from the very convenient option of A-5s/F-7s, the PAF can now deploy some four or five JF-17s for the price of a single Rafle.
Dollar for Dollar, you can launch a whole squadron of 16 Thunders to counter an attack by say 4 Rafales.
Even if 50% of each attacking force is taken out, it's no rocket science to conclude, who will still be able to inflict more damage.

I have a Doubt which is not rocket science either, but how did you conclude that thunders would fight an outnumbered Rafale?

Let me take your scenario for example. Do you not think that the era of Dog fighting is gone and these so called outnumbered Rafales can pick up the JFT's on their Radar's Miles before you could spot them?

 

[Icewolf]

I have a Doubt which is not rocket science either, but how did you conclude that thunders would fight an outnumbered Rafale?

Let me take your scenario for example. Do you not think that the era of Dog fighting is gone and these so called outnumbered Rafales can pick up the JFT's on their Radar's Miles before you could spot them?

JF-17 block II will have stealth and diamond nose kinda like EF Typhoon, and JF-17 block III will be equivalent to F-35A. plus we are making with China J-2X which is small brother of J-20

 

[IndianArmy]

JF-17 block II will have stealth and diamond nose kinda like EF Typhoon, and JF-17 block III will be equivalent to F-35A. plus we are making with China J-2X which is small brother of J-20

Do you have it documented??? Can I have a Go through?? Or is it a mere assumption?

 

[S10]

J-10B's cost is somewhere around 250 mil in RMB now, due to upgrades. That works out to be around 38 to 40 mil USD per plane. Even JF-17 will likely surpass 20 mil USD in price tag. The next generation J-20 will be close to 100 mil USD. Some people are under the perception that China can produce high end defence products for the price of dirt, which is not true. While Chinese products can be cheaper, the margin is generally only razor thin as high end products are more technologically intense and labour costs play a smaller part. In some cases, such as T/R modules used in AESA radars, Japan and US can produce them cheaper than China can.

In short, the hope that PAF can stay in the race by purchasing Chinese planes with comparable to EF/Rafale at 1/3 of the price is no more than a pipe dream. The reality is China CAN'T produce J-10B anywhere near the cheap price range some are hoping for. Without improvement to Pakistan's political, security and economic environment, India will enlarge its numerical and technologically lead over PAF in the long run.

 

[IndoUS]

J-10B's cost is somewhere around 250 mil in RMB now, due to upgrades. That works out to be around 38 to 40 mil USD per plane. Even JF-17 will likely surpass 20 mil USD in price tag. The next generation J-20 will be close to 100 mil USD. Some people are under the perception that China can produce high end defence products for the price of dirt, which is not true. While Chinese products can be cheaper, the margin is generally only razor thin as high end products are more technologically intense and labour costs play a smaller part. In some cases, such as T/R modules used in AESA radars, Japan and US can produce them cheaper than China can.

In short, the hope that PAF can stay in the race by purchasing Chinese planes with comparable to EF/Rafale at 1/3 of the price is no more than a pipe dream. The reality is China CAN'T produce J-10B anywhere near the cheap price range some are hoping for. Without improvement to Pakistan's political, security and economic environment, India will enlarge its numerical and technologically lead over PAF in the long run.

The main concern for India is China currently and I am not going to deny it. I look at China as a role model and something as a barrier that India must try to overcome. Most of the projects that China is doing is for the improvement of its own R&D and to create a better technology platform for its future fighters, and as for Pakistan if China isn't willing to sell for cheap then Pakistan would be in some what of a trouble since they won't be able to buy these jets in numbers.

As for Imran Khan I can't say much since I live in US, many politician make big promises and it is after the actual election and after they are sworn in would you see their real face. Many politician in India promise big things and give out gifts and free health care services and other things but that is only till election. Even Obama promised many things but look at it now the economy is now in a even deeper hole than when he took office and his plan is to print more money for his dream plans.

 

[shuntmaster]

Any blockade leaves your neighbor directly vulnerable sort of all bets off. You put blockage you face nasty consequences equally. In other words an unfortunate move but has to be implemented to release considerable pressure.

Any war is nasty affair. Defence planners take into consideration all eventualities when handling the hostilities.

 

[RazPaK]

I wish Muradk was here to provide his input.

 

[IndoUS]

The only thing I can say for now is that Pakistan can either ask China for advance fighter jets or, buy other aircraft in large number as to have a quantity over quality thing.

 

[Icewolf]

well i think we have a chance for J-20 after 2016 since (hopefully) our economy will be better, we may be able to even buy Gripen or upgrade to JFT block 4

 

[jackyy]

The only thing I can say for now is that Pakistan can either ask China for advance fighter jets or, buy other aircraft in large number as to have a quantity over quality thing.

MMRCA was never for pakistan.This thread is nothing more than a self claimed threat.
Most of the planes will be shifted to north east not towards west. and only objective is to get tech for local industry with no strings.

 

[Icewolf]

I think the whole world should switch to drone technology as that will probably be the dominant air defense and attack in many air forces while other airforces will have to stick with 5th generation fighters.