Opinionated - I wish Pakistan had a more competent enemy than India

[Trango Towers]

Not including indians, that can happen.

Loooool. They will never change. I thank Allah for Pakistan and may Allah forgive Jinnah all his sins for he worked day and night for our freedom. God have mercy on us all. Ameen

 

[mudas777]

Sometimes I look at neighboring countries like Iran, Turkey, and China and wish we had real and competent enemies like them. Iran, Turkey, and China are leaders in military innovation because they have to be more competent and shrewd than their enemies which are among the best in the world. Iran takes on Israel with cyberattacks, Turkey targets Russian assets with drones, and China is battling it out with US for control of the world. I wish Pakistan had a more competent enemy so we could innovate a bit more. Unfortunately, India is a paper tiger and as they don't present an actual military threat to Pakistan besides their cancerous ideology, our military has become complacent and cannot innovate like Iran, Turkey, or China as Pakistan lacks a competent enemy like Israel, Russia, or US. Thus Pakistan is at least 20 years way behind likes of Iran, Turkey, and China on pretty much every kind of relevant military technology you can imagine.

Just a few of the technologies Pakistan has missed out on includes:

Cyberattacks (Iran, Israel, North Korea, China, Russia, US)
Drones (Iran, Israel, Turkey, China, US)
Cheap DIY suicide drones (Iran)
Satellites (Iran, Israel, Russia, India, China, US)
Precision cruise missiles (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Civilian space program (Iran, India, Russia, China, US)
Artificial military islands (Iran, China, US)
Dual use civill/military rockets (Iran, China, Russia, US)
EMP weapons (Iran, China, Russia, US)
Asymmetric decentralized navy (Iran)
Remote control explosive boats (Iran)
Small speedboats (Iran)
EFP armor piercing IED (Iran)
Sea skimming missiles (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Artificial intelligence (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Proxy warfare (Iran, Israel, Russia, US)
Ballistic missiles (Iran, Israel, India, North Korea, China, Russia, US)
Cryptocurrency (Iran, North Korea, China, Russia)
JF-17 export restrictions
Reverse engineering (Iran, China)
Loitering munitions (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Terrain and topography surveying
SCADA cyberattacks on infrastructure (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Exportable missiles (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Hypersonic glide vehicle (Iran, China, US)
MIRV research (Iran, China, US)
Underground missile bunkers (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Drones and cyberattacks (Iran, Turkey, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Directed energy weapons (Turkey)
Seizing enemy ships (Iran)
Guaranteed hit smart scope rifles (Israel, US)
Ninja blade missiles (US)

Consider yourself lucky the way our country have been run we would have gone under, sometimes one must appreciate what they have got rather then what we missed out at. In this day and age still our kids are missing out on education which is the key ingredient for the country development and the one who are going to schools are put on the low quality thread mill. First our country needs education and quality export industries and then rest will follow otherwise we are throwing darts everywhere and getting no where. Even you want t to go to the moon which is no longer a big deal one needs knowledge how to get their and back and industry to build it. So far all we have been good at to avoid paying taxes and produce as many kids as possible until our women drop dead and when kids grow up mostly uneducated and send them abroad as cheap labour to find jobs and kicked around by other nations.
First time we have got an educated prime minister and even he have gone on the wrong track and wasting time on corruption rather then focusing on education and setting up the industries. Fighting corruption may be a noble thing to do but that's not the only thing our country needs and having said that he could have set up a government ministry for that while focusing on education, industrialization and job creation. Once our economy picks up above items are doddle to make and get if the will is there. Leaders lead nations and our leaders leads swiss banks in stashing stolen money.

 

[Hamza913]

India is far larger and whilst they do have their gaffs, so do we (albeit less so imo).

Give respect when respect is due, not all of them are incapable.

 

[Avatar]

Agreed on your other points. But Pakistan is very much the main factor in Indian elections. Number of neutral media sources have covered the Pakistan factor in Indian elections.

For example,

For weeks, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had cautioned voters in rallies that a vote for the opposition party, the Indian National Congress, would be a vote for Pakistan. This was his bid to make the Congress look like a party that is in cahoots with an enemy state

During Indian election campaigns, the respective politicans address large crowds of 10s of 1000s of people, most of whom are marginally literate. During these rallies, they use every idealogical weapon in their arsenal to incite these crowds into supporting them, and Pakistan is definitely one of India's largest security concerns - and there was a lot of unresolved anger in India for not punishing Pakistan sufficiently after some devastating terror attacks linked to Pakistani soil. So - for Indian politicans the stance is that "If you vote for me, I'll deal with Pakistan more strictly" (which they have) and at the same time, the Congress government can be fairly blamed for being risk averse to the point of appearing docile and giving the belligerents enough comfort to create trouble without any fear of repercussion (something that has also changed in a good way) - Indian soldiers have occupied and camped inside Chinese claimed territory under the dragons nose with very resolute determination that has put CCP in an unexpected state of shock and strategic debacle.

Contrast this with Pakistani leaders, media persons and pretty much anyone who doesn't stick to the Pakistani state dictated narrative being alleged to be an Indian agent.

Despite Tejas missing it's deadlines and being extended, it helped us develop an aeronautical ecosystem with all the necessary testing facilities and research centers. The primary reason for LCA's effed up timeline is not due to the lack of technical expertise but poor project management and this is kinda expected when govt agencies are handling it, particularly during 90s and 2000s where red tape and bureaucracy were at it's peak. Again, I'm not justifying but only stating the underlying core reason for the relatively long timeline for the LCA project

On the positive side, we're now able to develop and test new technologies at a significantly faster pace. For instance, the MWF (LCA Mk-II) design which was frozen in under 2yrs including scaled model testing and metal cutting for the initial prototypes was originally scheduled for Q4 of 2019 but due to covid, was postponed to 2021. This is significantly quick compared to the original LCA project.


The issue is not primitive thinking but IA and IAF's love for foreign maal. They issue specifications for a particular project but will get lured by foreign firms resulting in unrealistic changes to the specs and delayed timelines which end up killing the project which is when they'd go for foreign products and get the necessary kickbacks

This isn't the issue with IN since if you notice IN's surface fleet acquisitions over the past two decades, all of em have been designed by the naval design bureau and built at local public or private owned shipyards. Even subs like the Scorpene were also built locally but none have been built abroad.

Now the MoD issued a self-arms embargo, this will reduce IA & IAF's dependence on foreign maal and with the involvement of private sector, development of new tech should happen at a much better pace

Absolutely agree with you.

Nobody can cater to India's security needs beter than India's own industries. These products are custom tailored and designed specifically from ground up to fulfill IAF's very specific operational requirements, and IAF is on board every step of the way. With the synergy between private and government organizations, with the heightened threat perception from China - there is no other way forward.

Imported maal will shine more but it is the desi maal that will always be available without any restrictions on spares, maintainence, servicability and the more we use it, the more our products and industry will improve and surpass all alternatives in terms of value.

In a state of actual war I presume that BVR combat such as what happened with Abhinandan will only be a small portion of the complete scope of missions deployed by IAF, and with the Rafale's and upgrades in EW suites, weapons, etc IAF has adequate inventory to counter every realistic threat. It will also be highly unlikely that PAF will repeat the same "surprise package" strategy because the risk of IAF being aware and prepared is much higher now.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

I do, "Bo Haa". Got it!!

Remember, according to most researchers, Indians are a separate spices from others.
We understand languages of our spices.
What Indians say, makes no sense to us.

It is true though, you are useless as an enemy. But very dangerous as snakes.

As it happen only few days ago, I answered an Indian like this on twitter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1324607637443534848

So snakes are not worthy enemies?

Where did you get 2 billion Millitary pensions number ? And Pakistans defence budget is around 11 billion not 7.85 mate

Here

Why is Pakistan spending so much money on defence amid COVID-19?

Why is Pakistan spending so much money on defence amid COVID-19?

The government seems more interested in keeping the military content than providing support for struggling citizens.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Cash GK]

Sometimes I look at neighboring countries like Iran, Turkey, and China and wish we had real and competent enemies like them. Iran, Turkey, and China are leaders in military innovation because they have to be more competent and shrewd than their enemies which are among the best in the world. Iran takes on Israel with cyberattacks, Turkey targets Russian assets with drones, and China is battling it out with US for control of the world. I wish Pakistan had a more competent enemy so we could innovate a bit more. Unfortunately, India is a paper tiger and as they don't present an actual military threat to Pakistan besides their cancerous ideology, our military has become complacent and cannot innovate like Iran, Turkey, or China as Pakistan lacks a competent enemy like Israel, Russia, or US. Thus Pakistan is at least 20 years way behind likes of Iran, Turkey, and China on pretty much every kind of relevant military technology you can imagine.

Just a few of the technologies Pakistan has missed out on includes:

Cyberattacks (Iran, Israel, North Korea, China, Russia, US)
Drones (Iran, Israel, Turkey, China, US)
Cheap DIY suicide drones (Iran)
Satellites (Iran, Israel, Russia, India, China, US)
Precision cruise missiles (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Civilian space program (Iran, India, Russia, China, US)
Artificial military islands (Iran, China, US)
Dual use civill/military rockets (Iran, China, Russia, US)
EMP weapons (Iran, China, Russia, US)
Asymmetric decentralized navy (Iran)
Remote control explosive boats (Iran)
Small speedboats (Iran)
EFP armor piercing IED (Iran)
Sea skimming missiles (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Artificial intelligence (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Proxy warfare (Iran, Israel, Russia, US)
Ballistic missiles (Iran, Israel, India, North Korea, China, Russia, US)
Cryptocurrency (Iran, North Korea, China, Russia)
JF-17 export restrictions
Reverse engineering (Iran, China)
Loitering munitions (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Terrain and topography surveying
SCADA cyberattacks on infrastructure (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Exportable missiles (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Hypersonic glide vehicle (Iran, China, US)
MIRV research (Iran, China, US)
Underground missile bunkers (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Drones and cyberattacks (Iran, Turkey, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Directed energy weapons (Turkey)
Seizing enemy ships (Iran)
Guaranteed hit smart scope rifles (Israel, US)
Ninja blade missiles (US)

It is a great privilege to have respectful enemy And Pakistan does not have that privilege...

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I'd argue, as incompetent as India is, it provided Pakistan huge opportunities to develop. We developed nukes and became the only Muslim nuclear power because of Indian ambitions, and now can freely build a couple of nukes a year and launch them with accuracy with missiles. At the same time, having a rival with a population of 1 billion, many of them acting like rats online cause Pakistani to develop social-mental brick minds when it comes to replying to them. Many Turks and Iranians cannot do that. I've seen them reply to Indians, Greeks, and others, and they are too soft. At the same time, the lies that India spews have helped Pakistan toughen it's mentally of how the world operates, DESPITE us being very nice people - aka, we're nice, but, capable.

Finally, the United States and Israel are also our enemies. The United States, the Soviet Union entering Afghanistan, leading to terror-guerilla warfare against Pakistan, has battle-hardened our troops. We're the only country to defeat terror successfully. At the same time, we're able to respond against Israel due to us entering the Arab-Israeli war and their stance with Palestine.

Great post. @PAKISTANFOREVER @PakFactor @Iltutmish

I wish Pakistan had no enemies and our borders were full of kind and generous neighbours and we loved and cared for each other.
War is bad. Nothing but tears and pain

Peace creates weakness, which leads to being conquered.

War creates a strong nation, which become conquerors.

Appreciate the situation which Allah swt has put you in. You are being tested because you will be the Imamat of the world.

It is a great privilege to have respectful enemy And Pakistan does not have that privilege...

A cruel, vile, heartless, perverted enemy suits Pakistan, because then there is no confusion about our enemy, which rapes and massacres innocents.

Anyone who doubts that india is our foe, they need to be watched. I mean here specificially opposition parties of PDM.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I'd argue, as incompetent as India is, it provided Pakistan huge opportunities to develop. We developed nukes and became the only Muslim nuclear power because of Indian ambitions, and now can freely build a couple of nukes a year and launch them with accuracy with missiles. At the same time, having a rival with a population of 1 billion, many of them acting like rats online cause Pakistani to develop social-mental brick minds when it comes to replying to them. Many Turks and Iranians cannot do that. I've seen them reply to Indians, Greeks, and others, and they are too soft. At the same time, the lies that India spews have helped Pakistan toughen it's mentally of how the world operates, DESPITE us being very nice people - aka, we're nice, but, capable.

Finally, the United States and Israel are also our enemies. The United States, the Soviet Union entering Afghanistan, leading to terror-guerilla warfare against Pakistan, has battle-hardened our troops. We're the only country to defeat terror successfully. At the same time, we're able to respond against Israel due to us entering the Arab-Israeli war and their stance with Palestine.

Because of india, Pakistan has become the 1st EVER nation in the ENTIRE history of mankind to be able to thwart an enemy that is more than 7× bigger than us and has the full backing of the West and Russia.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Sometimes I look at neighboring countries like Iran, Turkey, and China and wish we had real and competent enemies like them. Iran, Turkey, and China are leaders in military innovation because they have to be more competent and shrewd than their enemies which are among the best in the world. Iran takes on Israel with cyberattacks, Turkey targets Russian assets with drones, and China is battling it out with US for control of the world. I wish Pakistan had a more competent enemy so we could innovate a bit more. Unfortunately, India is a paper tiger and as they don't present an actual military threat to Pakistan besides their cancerous ideology, our military has become complacent and cannot innovate like Iran, Turkey, or China as Pakistan lacks a competent enemy like Israel, Russia, or US. Thus Pakistan is at least 20 years way behind likes of Iran, Turkey, and China on pretty much every kind of relevant military technology you can imagine.

Just a few of the technologies Pakistan has missed out on includes:

Cyberattacks (Iran, Israel, North Korea, China, Russia, US)
Drones (Iran, Israel, Turkey, China, US)
Cheap DIY suicide drones (Iran)
Satellites (Iran, Israel, Russia, India, China, US)
Precision cruise missiles (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Civilian space program (Iran, India, Russia, China, US)
Artificial military islands (Iran, China, US)
Dual use civill/military rockets (Iran, China, Russia, US)
EMP weapons (Iran, China, Russia, US)
Asymmetric decentralized navy (Iran)
Remote control explosive boats (Iran)
Small speedboats (Iran)
EFP armor piercing IED (Iran)
Sea skimming missiles (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Artificial intelligence (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Proxy warfare (Iran, Israel, Russia, US)
Ballistic missiles (Iran, Israel, India, North Korea, China, Russia, US)
Cryptocurrency (Iran, North Korea, China, Russia)
JF-17 export restrictions
Reverse engineering (Iran, China)
Loitering munitions (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Terrain and topography surveying
SCADA cyberattacks on infrastructure (Iran, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Exportable missiles (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Hypersonic glide vehicle (Iran, China, US)
MIRV research (Iran, China, US)
Underground missile bunkers (Iran, Russia, China, US)
Drones and cyberattacks (Iran, Turkey, Israel, Russia, China, US)
Directed energy weapons (Turkey)
Seizing enemy ships (Iran)
Guaranteed hit smart scope rifles (Israel, US)
Ninja blade missiles (US)

You might have a point. However countries don't make enemies for the sake of it. Depends on their interests. It's also true that having a peer/rival/enemy that's strong and far more advanced helps shape a country's political landscape and rulers in adopting policies to match or at least lessen the gap between them and their enemy. However that also depends on the leadership and national conscience.
For example China's peers in East Asia i.e Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan are all countries who are very developed and advanced and they have been that way even when China was still poor and backward, I believed it also helped shape China's policies and open up process and made their development and catch up more easier since their east asian neighbours invested heavily in their economy and industries which in turn helped modernize the country faster than it would have been the case had China been for example a south Asian country or African country. So it's true that being neighbours with or even rival with a more advanced developing country can help shake up a country's leadership in adopting more adequate policies , however that also depends on the Country and the leaders at the helm.

 

[crankthatskunk]

So snakes are not worthy enemies?

Well, snakes are there for their venom, so you quashed their heads, not have them as enemies or friends.
Look around India, every country consider them the snake ready to bite them.

 

[Progressive1]

not sure , if it makes sense

India is 7 times larger than pakistan , it is now a power in tier below USA, Russia and China. Massive challenge of enusring parity has resulted in efficient performance from pakistan in many fields like high quality AF pilots to intelligence agency to spcial services group. You cant ask for bigger enemy , tbh any other similar size asian country would have easily been overwhelmed. you are underestimating India ,

What is peformance of middle eastern countries against that you are hyping againt much smaller israel , when the relaity is that isreal is too small to be an existential threat to any of them

 

[CatSultan]

Y

Here are some good options for Pakistan to find a worthy enemy

1) Start funding the Uyghurs against China

2) Start supporting Baloch and Sunni Turks against Iran

3) Kick US/NATO unceremoniously out of Afghanistan

4) Kick Russia out of Central Asia and fund the Chechen and Tatars against Russia

5) Send troops to Palestine and support Hamas against Israel

were doing 3 and 5
Don't be ungrateful. We could have had Armenia as our enemy or Taiwan.

 

[Aspen]

You night have a point. However countries don't make enemies for the sake of it. Depends on their interests. It's also true that having a peer/rival/enemy that's strong and far more advanced helps shape a country's political landscape and rulers in adopting policies to match or at least lessen the gap between them and their enemy. However that also depends on the leadership and national conscience.
For example China's peers in East Asia i.e Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan are all countries who are very developed and advanced and they have been that way even when China was still poor and backward, I believed it also helped shape China's policies and open up process and made their development and catch up more easier since their east asian neighbours invested heavily in their economy and industries which in turn helped modernize the country faster than it would have been there case had China been for example a south Asian country or African country. So it's true that being neighbours with or even rival with a more advanced developing country can help shake up a country's leadership in adopting more adequate policies , however that also depends on the Country and the leaders at the helm.

Absolutely, I fully agree with every word you said.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

In which field are we exactly even with them in 2020?

Pakistanis have PDF.

What do Indians have?

 

[Morpheus]

We are fighting 1.3billion gangus. I think that is very challenge. We are stuck with these 1.3billion non humans, that need to be exterminated from this planet, and that is no easy task.