Opinionated - I wish Pakistan had a more competent enemy than India

[FlashGordon]

Not a nice thing to say:-" languishing in the dustbin as an afterthought "
Perhaps you should rephrase what you saying?

As for war it seems that you don't know or want to accept the realities or you are braying for blood.
When war starts humanity has failed , Our goal is not to start a war and not let the devil have his way.

Its his age or that nobody has ever loved him.

We are at war even now. Covert and Overt. Soldiers and Civilians getting killed regularly. If after seeing death of kids and wailing mother has not resulted in dislike for war , you are o human.

India and Pakistan had short wars and not years of war. This is because we are sensible. Our politicans and military are sensible and human. We still not hate each other as much we think we do. We know we can live with each other and our customs and rituals are not unknown to us.

I do not see any war in future. Chinese too are not a nation which will go to war....yes muscle flexing ...dadagiri...yes..but not war.

Jobs, decent living, less poverty...thats our war.

 

[Zapper]

Looking at how china is taking over pak...it's citizens will sooner or later realize and revolt which'll fulfill your dream of having a "competent" enemy called china

 

[ber123]

who needs enemys when we got people like aspen.

 

[Zapper]

Inventing wheel again. When they start doing something, they start from ABC. And hence every project become Tejas project

Despite Tejas missing it's deadlines and being extended, it helped us develop an aeronautical ecosystem with all the necessary testing facilities and research centers. The primary reason for LCA's effed up timeline is not due to the lack of technical expertise but poor project management and this is kinda expected when govt agencies are handling it, particularly during 90s and 2000s where red tape and bureaucracy were at it's peak. Again, I'm not justifying but only stating the underlying core reason for the relatively long timeline for the LCA project

On the positive side, we're now able to develop and test new technologies at a significantly faster pace. For instance, the MWF (LCA Mk-II) design which was frozen in under 2yrs including scaled model testing and metal cutting for the initial prototypes was originally scheduled for Q4 of 2019 but due to covid, was postponed to 2021. This is significantly quick compared to the original LCA project.

Too primitive approach every time. They somehow think very very primatly. I mean as if they are still in 1750. Some how their minds are still stuck in 1750. So whenever they will start a thing, they will adopt an approach that is simplest, and hence very less productive.

The issue is not primitive thinking but IA and IAF's love for foreign maal. They issue specifications for a particular project but will get lured by foreign firms resulting in unrealistic changes to the specs and delayed timelines which end up killing the project which is when they'd go for foreign products and get the necessary kickbacks

This isn't the issue with IN since if you notice IN's surface fleet acquisitions over the past two decades, all of em have been designed by the naval design bureau and built at local public or private owned shipyards. Even subs like the Scorpene were also built locally but none have been built abroad.

Now the MoD issued a self-arms embargo, this will reduce IA & IAF's dependence on foreign maal and with the involvement of private sector, development of new tech should happen at a much better pace

 

[Marker]

As far as competency at technology is concerned, India is far ahead of any country of this region. I am a technogy guy, I can testify it.
But there are two, infact three problems with them.
1) Concentration. They diverge from their goals too easily, and whenever they start a project end up in 50 projects.
2) Inventing wheel again. When they start doing something, they start from ABC. And hence every project become Tejas project.
3) Too primitive approach every time. They somehow think very very primatly. I mean as if they are still in 1750. Some how their minds are still stuck in 1750. So whenever they will start a thing, they will adopt an approach that is simplest, and hence very less productive.

We Pakistanis have also the same issues, but on opposite side, like too advance too early etc....

Both India and Pakistan have a problem of balance.

In my opinion, Pakistan's approach to acquire technologies and related infra structure is fast, efficient, more result oriented and successful. MFI-17 to Mushshak and Super Mushshak, K-8, JF-17, and Project Azm, overhauling infrastructure to manufacturing infra structure. Similarly tanks and armored vehicles, drones, missiles, nuclear weapons and their very advance variants. High tech technologies in Comm links, live situation awareness and AI, advance 5th and 6th gen weapon technologies.

Due to limited financial resources, all out very expensive research and development cost is being curtailed by acquiring and copying the western and eastern technologies and fuse them to create effective weapon systems.

Al-Khalid 1 and JF-17 are few "visible" examples of adopting such approach.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

In my opinion, Pakistan's approach to acquire technologies and related infra structure is fast, efficient, more result oriented and successful. MFI-17 to Mushshak and Super Mushshak, K-8, JF-17, and Project Azm, overhauling infrastructure to manufacturing infra structure. Similarly tanks and armored vehicles, drones, missiles, nuclear weapons and their very advance variants. High tech technologies in Comm links, live situation awareness and AI, advance 5th and 6th gen weapon technologies.

Due to limited financial resources, all out very expensive research and development cost is being curtailed by acquiring and copying the western and eastern technologies and fuse them to create effective weapon systems.

Al-Khalid 1 and JF-17 are few "visible" examples of adopting such approach.

Pakistan always had the surprise factor be it Nukes, Babur, Ababeel or Burraq.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

Such a strange desire. However, if I were being honest, it's India that has suffered from having us as the enemy (in the context of what is being argued) than the other way round.

Competent or not, the Indians have a massive advantage in terms of size of economy, geography, population and general resources. As they say, quantity has its own quality.

We are having to spend close to half our available resources into keeping up with the Indians, so it's a strange thing to argue that we need a tougher challenge.

We have achieved much more than many with the resources at hand and continue to improve now.

However, the graph isn't linear. The harder the opponent gets, the better you become. At some point the challenge gets more than you can deal with and you lose.

Loss for a nation looks like 1971. It's not a game.

 

[fitpOsitive]

In my opinion, Pakistan's approach to acquire technologies and related infra structure is fast, efficient, more result oriented and successful. MFI-17 to Mushshak and Super Mushshak, K-8, JF-17, and Project Azm, overhauling infrastructure to manufacturing infra structure. Similarly tanks and armored vehicles, drones, missiles, nuclear weapons and their very advance variants. High tech technologies in Comm links, live situation awareness and AI, advance 5th and 6th gen weapon technologies.

Due to limited financial resources, all out very expensive research and development cost is being curtailed by acquiring and copying the western and eastern technologies and fuse them to create effective weapon systems.

Al-Khalid 1 and JF-17 are few "visible" examples of adopting such approach.

Yes. Again, we import a lot of basic stuff. And technology ecosystem changes, and as soon as we are able to do something, it's already obsolete.
So it's again comes to balance.

Salaam

Such a strange desire. However, if I were being honest, it's India that has suffered from having us as the enemy (in the context of what is being argued) than the other way round.

Competent or not, the Indians have a massive advantage in terms of size of economy, geography, population and general resources. As they say, quantity has its own quality.

We are having to spend close to half our available resources into keeping up with the Indians, so it's a strange thing to argue that we need a tougher challenge.

We have achieved much more than many with the resources at hand and continue to improve now.

However, the graph isn't linear. The harder the opponent gets, the better you become. At some point the challenge gets more than you can deal with and you lose.

Loss for a nation looks like 1971. It's not a game.

Whenever we Pakistanis say that we have very less resources, we actually are saying that we are very less efficient at generating revenue.
We made stomic bomb. Our scientists did tremendous at many international prestigious research orgs. And still USA et al are blackmailing us.
I admit, this is deficiency.

 

[Nefarious]

Most of the countries you list are strong economies compared to Pakistan. Even Iran sanctioned to within an inch of life can keep going thanks to abundant oil and gas. Pakistan is doing a hell of a job I say with none of the above.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Most of the countries you list are strong economies compared to Pakistan. Even Iran sanctioned to within an inch of life can keep going thanks to abundant oil and gas. Pakistan is doing a hell of a job I say with none of the above.

We can do better.

 

[Marker]

Strategically located, with more than 20 m population and being a nuclear weapon armed country, Pakistan is a privileged country. It has the power to negotiate with other countries on equal terms for mutually profitable lucrative deals or pacts. The problem lies with our weak foreign diplomacy due to those so called political leaders who always run to seek help from their foreign masters for their greedy needs.

Pakistan desperately need a good, honest, and loyal leadership to steer it to success.

 

[Falcon26]

Indians can be divided into 3 types of people:
1. The elite who consolidate the power and mostly leverage it for consolodating personal wealth above everything else
2. The commoners who have the "anything goes" attitude and are largely ok with everything as long as they have food on the plate or promises of food on the plate.
3. The intellectuals who are bystanding entertainers in this arrangement. Although they understand the flaws they do very little to incite the commoners into making things right.

Now given that we are trying to operate within the inefficient deomocratic framework with more than 1 billion people, it is amazing that we have any progress at all. It means that there is some natural order in the chaos and despite of how it appears things are moving forward. Education is the key to electing responsible candidates as well as rooting out corruption that has become cancer in our socities.

If you could understand Urdu and watched any of the Pakistani news or TV channels in recent time, and you could compare it with observations of the Indian media - you will get a practical realization of how obsessed each side is with the other.

Pakistan has very little or no influence in Indian elections and Pakistan is almost never blamed for India's internal problems other than unrest in Kashmir and terror attacks that have originated from Pakistani soil.

I agree that despite GDP numbers, the real quality of life is quite bad especially in tier 1 cities of India compared with their counterparts in Brazil, etc. I hope bridging this gap becomes a priority for the present government.

Agreed on your other points. But Pakistan is very much the main factor in Indian elections. Number of neutral media sources have covered the Pakistan factor in Indian elections.

For example,

For weeks, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had cautioned voters in rallies that a vote for the opposition party, the Indian National Congress, would be a vote for Pakistan. This was his bid to make the Congress look like a party that is in cahoots with an enemy state

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

As far as competency at technology is concerned, India is far ahead of any country of this region. I am a technogy guy, I can testify it.
But there are two, infact three problems with them.
1) Concentration. They diverge from their goals too easily, and whenever they start a project end up in 50 projects.
2) Inventing wheel again. When they start doing something, they start from ABC. And hence every project become Tejas project.
3) Too primitive approach every time. They somehow think very very primatly. I mean as if they are still in 1750. Some how their minds are still stuck in 1750. So whenever they will start a thing, they will adopt an approach that is simplest, and hence very less productive.

We Pakistanis have also the same issues, but on opposite side, like too advance too early etc....

Both India and Pakistan have a problem of balance.

Can you please provide credible evidence that verifies your claims?

Salaam

Such a strange desire. However, if I were being honest, it's India that has suffered from having us as the enemy (in the context of what is being argued) than the other way round.

Competent or not, the Indians have a massive advantage in terms of size of economy, geography, population and general resources. As they say, quantity has its own quality.

We are having to spend close to half our available resources into keeping up with the Indians, so it's a strange thing to argue that we need a tougher challenge.

We have achieved much more than many with the resources at hand and continue to improve now.

However, the graph isn't linear. The harder the opponent gets, the better you become. At some point the challenge gets more than you can deal with and you lose.

Loss for a nation looks like 1971. It's not a game.

By the same token, a loss for a nation looks like 1947.

 

[PakistaniandProud]

Military budget efficiency is not a strong point of Pakistan, I will admit that. This is part of the problem with Pakistan's complacency. A stronger enemy would force Pakistan to make military budget more efficient and more potent with same amount of money.

There are much better ways to maximize Pakistan's military budget like cyber, drones, and space but instead it gets blown on useless stuff, so I will concede this point.

I'd argue, as incompetent as India is, it provided Pakistan huge opportunities to develop. We developed nukes and became the only Muslim nuclear power because of Indian ambitions, and now can freely build a couple of nukes a year and launch them with accuracy with missiles. At the same time, having a rival with a population of 1 billion, many of them acting like rats online cause Pakistani to develop social-mental brick minds when it comes to replying to them. Many Turks and Iranians cannot do that. I've seen them reply to Indians, Greeks, and others, and they are too soft. At the same time, the lies that India spews have helped Pakistan toughen it's mentally of how the world operates, DESPITE us being very nice people - aka, we're nice, but, capable.

Finally, the United States and Israel are also our enemies. The United States, the Soviet Union entering Afghanistan, leading to terror-guerilla warfare against Pakistan, has battle-hardened our troops. We're the only country to defeat terror successfully. At the same time, we're able to respond against Israel due to us entering the Arab-Israeli war and their stance with Palestine.

 

[paritosh]

This attitude is the reason Pakistan has gotten so complacent.

If we "respect" our opponent India, then we will always be trying to stay even with a country as incompetent as India, which will make us equally as incompetent. Maybe if we had a real enemy, we would be forced to innovate more, and Pakistan would be more shrewd like Iran, Turkey, and China. Bajwa entering politics is shameful. Instead Pakistan's military has gotten extremely complacent and relaxed, languishing in the dustbin as an afterthought due to the lack of a clear threat or coherent vision requiring military innovation.

Enemy countries will always counter what their enemy does. India is only an ideological threat, evidenced by the fact that IK tweets about RSS every week but never takes any military action against such a threat. Hence Pakistan counters India's ideology but does not do anything else, resulting in military innovation getting ignored and languishing for decades. Pakistan's military will not innovate unless confronted with a more competent enemy than India, but waiting until that time is not smart. Right now, since India is incompetent, Pakistan military has no incentive to innovate which is a big problem for us. Pakistan should have started hitting India with cyberattacks and drones years ago, but we haven't because India hasn't used them against us first, and stupidly we are waiting for them to do it first, so that we can innovate and catch up to them later.

Why don’t you stir up trouble with China or Israel then?