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Operations in Dir and Buner

Are you a daft being? Do you lack brain cells?.........

Let me know when you are done with your lame emotional rant. I still don't see the answers to the questions that I raised. Several other members are asking the same question too.

And oh yes - should I be reminding you that personal attacks are prohibited on this forum?
 
I understand the FC was set up in Pakistan to deal with these issues but has it's resources diverted to the army instead?
I'm not sure that its a case of resources being 'diverted' (indicating they were allocated to the FC in the first place) vs the FC never really being funded properly since the compact with the tribes had largely held till the US invasion of Afghanistan and the rise of the Pakistani Taliban.

There have been some positive changes in the FC, such as the pay structure being raised to match the Army, enhancing benefits such as medical treatment for families, education, ensuring basic equipment is provided etc.

An article from the NYT from last month that sheds some light on the progress and challenges in the capacity building of the FC:
PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Maj. Gen. Tariq Khan, commander of Pakistan’s Frontier Corps paramilitary force, got some bad news the other day: The Pakistani Army needed its two helicopters back for a more urgent mission.

Trouble was, they were the only two helicopters General Khan had that day — or any other day — to combat Al Qaeda and the Taliban in the country’s lawless tribal areas. “If the army needs their assets, we don’t get priority,” General Khan said of the transport and attack aircraft that the army lends him because his forces have none of their own.

So it goes for the Frontier Corps, a stepchild of the army that has to borrow most of its heavy weaponry, even as it increasingly finds itself on the front lines fighting Qaeda and Taliban operations that threaten American troops in Afghanistan and are increasingly destabilizing Pakistan.

Still, with the 500,000-member Pakistani Army focused on its archenemy, India, and reluctant to embrace serious counterinsurgency training, the Frontier Corps, long maligned as poorly trained, ill equipped and at times in league with the insurgents, may yet be the country’s best immediate hope for countering a fast-spreading militancy.

Unlike the Punjabi-dominated army, the 60,000 troops in the Frontier Corps are largely drawn from Pashtun tribesmen who know the language and culture of the tribal areas, making it the most suitable force to combat an insurgency there, Pakistani and American military officials say.

Enter General Khan, a portly, 52-year-old tank commander who made his name last year battling the Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud in South Waziristan. He took command of the corps seven months ago and has sought to drag it from its 19th-century border-patrol past into the 21st-century world of counterinsurgency.

The general, who once was Pakistan’s military representative at the United States Central Command headquarters in Tampa, Fla., has already improved morale by raising salaries and expanding medical care to dependents. He has drafted a detailed plan to overhaul the corps, aiming to transform it into a more agile lightly armed force while also swelling its ranks by more than 10,000 to allow home leaves.

He is an unusually progressive officer, a trait that has ruffled some feathers among his army brethren. In this conservative society, General Khan plans to offer women jobs as medics in rear-area field hospitals, freeing up male orderlies to fight.

Pakistani and American officials say the Frontier Corps is already more effective now. The corps’s forces, fighting alongside regular army soldiers, have largely wrapped up operations against the Taliban in the Bajaur, Mohmand and Khyber areas of the tribal belt, the general said.

A new commando unit within the Frontier Corps has used information from the Central Intelligence Agency and other sources to kill or capture as many as 60 militants in the past seven months, a senior Pakistani military official said. “The results speak for themselves,” Owais Ahmed Ghani, the governor of the North-West Frontier Province, which includes the tribal areas, said in an interview.

General Khan has strong support from the army chief of staff, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. But many military analysts question whether General Khan will get the resources and backing to continue carrying out his changes. Moreover, some critics say, the recent Frontier Corps operations have not eliminated the Taliban threat, but just shunted it to neighboring areas.

“The Frontier Corps has shown improvement, but there’s still a long way to go,” said Hasan Askari Rizvi, a military analyst in Lahore. “The Taliban are entrenched and move quickly from one area to another.”

The United States has thrown its support behind the corps. The Pentagon has spent more than $40 million to equip it with new body armor, vehicles, radios and surveillance equipment, with more in the pipeline. Over all, American officials have said that the United States could spend more than $400 million in the next several years to enhance the corps, including building a training base near Peshawar.

A United States Army Special Forces officer is assigned to the corps’s headquarters here to help share intelligence and coordinate operations with American forces across the border in Afghanistan.

Last fall, about 30 American and British military instructors spent three months training some 120 senior enlisted corps troops in new weapons, combat tactics, communications and other technical skills. Those Pakistani troops will in turn train additional corps forces.

But a review of policy on Afghanistan and Pakistan by the National Security Council this year, under former President George W. Bush, concluded that the “train-the-trainer” approach was so indirect that it would take about 12 years to field an effective counterinsurgency force. “They’ve got a long way to go before you can rely on them,” Representative John F. Tierney, a Massachusetts Democrat, said of the corps. Mr. Tierney’s oversight subcommittee has conducted several hearings on Pakistan.

In an interview here at his headquarters, a massive 19th-century brick fortress built by the British, General Khan said that a relatively modest investment — say, $300 million — in sensors, night-fighting equipment, sniper rifles and helicopters would enable the corps to respond to specific threats within 90 minutes and “to go independently anywhere it wanted to go.”

“It would change the dimension of the combat capacity of the Frontier Corps,” he said. “In the long run, it would reduce expenditures because you wouldn’t need so many troops.”

In the end, General Khan said the only long-term solution was to rebuild the tribal leadership structure that has been decimated by Taliban attacks, and then provide local tribal communities economic assistance and job training. “I consider the front-line force against the militants to be the tribes themselves,” General Khan said. “By bringing back tribal leadership, we’d be able to control this. But we have to have the wherewithal to protect those tribes.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/07/world/asia/07frontier.html
 
IMO FC will again prove deficient in the operations being launched in the region. It is imperative that the more seasoned and better equipped PA troops were to bolster the numbers of FC in this.

In addition the talk of peace even in the initial stages may just give the militants hope of quick breakdown in resolution of both the GoP and PA to seriously address the growing menace posed by these militants. Kind of counter productive to the whole thing.
 
If only you can understand the difference between conventional fighting something for which PA is trained for decades vs Counter insurgency, you wouldn't be coming out with a post such as this. And yes 70% resources do go to military but that is to counter India and not for CI.

Ice Cold

Irrespective of the original nature of weapons inducted, am sure they can be used to deal with an enemy which is a quasi-army today. No one says that you should employ heavy armor or artillery but one does need to atleast use some of the resources held.

PA shall adopt to CI grid quickly, but atleast induct them while the militants are yet not in full prime. It shall be a tragedy if PA was intriduced too late in the game.
 
IMO FC will again prove deficient in the operations being launched in the region. It is imperative that the more seasoned and better equipped PA troops were to bolster the numbers of FC in this.

The Army is on standby, and will step in if need be.

Gen. Tariq Khan seems to have a handle on what is needed to enhance the capacity of his troops, and most of the equipment he talked about is COIN specific (settling the old complaint about not selling F-16's for COIN, though NATO uses F-15's and the French their Rafael etc.:rolleyes:).

Providing more helicopters etc. has been something US officials have advocated as well, so there is some congruence between the US and Pakistan over the needs of the FC in terms of enhancing COIN capacity.
 
BaburCM

Your negative and arrogant attitude doesn't surprise me at all. You Indians after all are continuously fed with anti-Pakistan propaganda. It's part of your DNA.

actually the distortion has been actively done on your side, not Indian.


Everyone knows that the 70% of the GDP spent on the defence budget still amounts to peanuts. It's very easy for you to misuse stats. 70% may sound enormous, but what's the actual amount? Compared to the defence budgets of other armies it's actually not much at all.

Its still a huge amount and am sure enough worthwhile equipment was inducted using these funds. You can not compare your expenditure to say US. Even India cant. Their intelligence budget is as much as Indian defence!!!!


Also, these few resources are dedicated for defence against India. Your hostile country is hell-bent on destroying Pakistan.

ah this is news. wonder why we didnt in 1971 when pakistan just surrendered without a fight?

Which brings us back to the point that PA requires additional appropriate equipment such as drones etc. to fight the militants effectively. The PA currently doesn't have any UCAVs or Cobra spares for instance.

this assertion of yours whows your philosophy is flawed. You want to employ drones/air assets in an area where your own citizens are present?

The name of the game is boots on the ground. Fill in adequate troops in area dominance role and see the fun. You dont need any air support or armour. What you need are plenty of troops with good basic protection and weapons and hard intelligence (based on good intel). If you have these, you can dominate any militancy.

You have the advantage here. The common person living in these areas is not cooperating with militants because he supports them and treats you as invaders, its because you have not been able to stamp your writ in these areas and he has no one to go to for protection. Provide him and his family protection and you shall have the militants isolated. No militant can operate for long without having supplies. And they normally live off the land they operate in. Deny that and you see the fun.


As far as India is concerned, our army will have you for breakfast, lunch and dinner and still won't be satisfied.

statement to assauge your hurt egos from the past? use that great army to hunt those who pose the real threat to you. worry about IA later.


Wow, you must be proud of having a professional army whilst more than 500 million people are starving, dying of diseases and living below the poverty line. How much has your economy boost benefited these poor Indians? That's the reality right in your face. There is nothing professional about your army. They are getting their rear ends kicked by a bunch of separatists.

We are proud - for your having such a poor understanding of India and its socio-economic composition. Means we are right-generally you are ignorant and suffer from paranoia. As for IA getting kicked-laughable and product of that distorted vision you have!!!

Don't lecture us who we can and cannot handle. There is much more than handling or your simplistic rhetoric. Our army is already involved in taking on the enemy.

You cant decide whether they are or are not involved in operations there. Great!
 
actually the distortion has been actively done on your side, not Indian.
If you wish to be objective then realize that distortion has been done on both sides.
 
say, $300 million — in sensors, night-fighting equipment, sniper rifles and helicopters would enable the corps to respond to specific threats within 90 minutes and “to go independently anywhere it wanted to go.”

Money well spent I would have thought, given their willingness to actually engage the enemy. The largely Pashtun makeup of the Corps interests me, one of the canards I hear often of the PA is that it is unwilling to engage the Taliban mufsidun because many soldiers would split due to the shared kinship: the FC demonstrates this is not so. Thanks AgM
 
Pakistan talks with Taliban off: negotiator

1 hour ago

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) — Talks between the Pakistan Taliban and the government over the Swat valley have been suspended until the army halts its latest operation against militants, a negotiator said on Monday.

The Pakistan military launched a new offensive against Taliban militants in the northwest of the country on Sunday after coming under US pressure to stop the advance of the extremists in the region.

"Our council of leaders met on Sunday night and decided to suspend peace negotiations with the government in North West Frontier Province," said a spokesman for a cleric who negotiated a peace deal between the two sides in February.

"We, however, still adhere to the February deal," that put three million people under sharia law, spokesman Ameer Izzat Khan told AFP.

The military said Sunday that Frontier Corps paramilitary launched an operation against the Taliban in Lower Dir after militants killed a soldier in a deadly ambush.

It said a "number" of militants had been killed and that the dead bodies of 26 insurgents had been found.

Lower Dir is 75 kilometres (46 miles) west of Swat, once a popular ski resort frequented by Westerners but where the government has effectively lost control after a violent two-year Taliban campaign to enforce sharia law.

Like Swat, Lower Dir is part of Malakand, where President Asif Ali Zardari has authorised an agreement with the Taliban that saw them promise to lay down their arms in exchange for sharia courts.
 
This canard still going around?

The defence budget was 3.3 percent of the total budget for 2009, IIRC.

Stick to being a 'peaceful Indian', instead of a 'deceitful Indian'.;)

Unless of course you used some other metric to arrive at that 70% figure?

Hardly deceitful to you. Just going by what many Pakistani members say here. E.g - Durran3 etc.
Didn't take much effort to google it either. Many articles listed here -

70% of Pakistan's budget goes to army - Google Search

3.3% figure of yours is the official figure of GoP, which sadly, not many believe outside of Pakistan.
 
Hardly deceitful to you. Just going by what many Pakistani members say here. E.g - Durran3 etc.
Didn't take much effort to google it either. Many articles listed here -

70% of Pakistan's budget goes to army - Google Search

3.3% figure of yours is the official figure of GoP, which sadly, not many believe outside of Pakistan.

So we are going by hearsay now or do we actually have facts and figures from reputable sources to back this up?

If Durran3 said the same then he needs to correct his claim or explain how he arrived at it.

Conspiracy theories aren't enough.
 
Pakistan Army has a small 4 billion budget and if you consider that 70% of total economy then Pakistan according to you is one of the most poorest nation in the world.
 
Pakistan Army has a small 4 billion budget and if you consider that 70% of total economy then Pakistan according to you is one of the most poorest nation in the world.

with the economic state its in today, hardly surprising appraisal ..... your forex are down and your economy a mess and you are unable to meet your IMF loan repayments.
 
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