Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[Student]

Dear,

your military leadership sounded more optimistic on pacifying E PAK within 7 days but forgot to calculate Pakistani break-up scheme wasn't E ****’s brain-child rather it was conceived, nurtured outside of that territory. Do you not see the replica of it with E Pak's failure? I would be loved to be proved wrong but since after every single assessment and prediction of patriotic analyst's coming true, I tend to stay as a conspiracy theorist in tunnel-visionary, deflationist’s eyes. If I were to go by the chronology of developments since Lal Masjid’s massacre, wouldn't it be like some Chinese brothels were given rise for Lal Masjid's puritan-students to come out for protest that led Mush sending SSGs with white phosphorus to kill around 1400 innocent students, which angered pushtun/SWATis that was hijacked by INDO-ZION to make them anti-Pakistani suicide bombers? What came after that? Wasn't it PAK army's opps against SWATies? Did its pacification stop suicide bombing/attack or gave it a bigger rise? And you expect SWA opp would make the situation better? The enemy that broke PAK in 71 was again hell-bent on breaking PAK again by putting army against pushtun like they made army to go after Bengalis. IT WOULD BE CHAIN OF REACTIONS THAT WAS KNOWN AS HEGELIAN DIALECTS (What is the Hegelian Dialectic?), CREATIVE DESTRUCTION (Creative destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) OF NEW-CONS. During SWAT opp, an influx of huge IDPs would create more problems on national fabric on already internally turmoil PAK. Then NGO, Medias and spies would jump to invent PAK army's massacre on pustun to create global outcry for new Pushtunistan that would lead a chain of events like international arm embargo on PAK-MIL, attack from both east and western sides which would end the BIG GAME, I.E. losing Kashmir to IND and NWFP to AF and the creation of new Baluchistan.

The ideal remedy would be to mine the PAK-AF border then fence it along with creating military posts. Simultaneously running the combing, intelligent, Media and academic opps to neutralize TTPs, their supply-routes of arms, communication and foods. In the mean time GOP needs to take OIC and China, Ruskies in confidence to wrestle back AF from IND-ISRO-War party. If GOP can do that them TTP walas would die over time otherwise wait for Khuda Hafiz (Hope never happens though) of PAK.

What do you do when the dog goes mad? You shoot the damn dog.

Bangolis were stupid enough to let outside force lead a revolt against there own country E.Pakistan and be a party to it. We are over it. Save your crocodile tears we dont need them. We are a nation of 170 million and we have guns and a lot of them. We will kill every last one of those Najdi Khawarij terrorists.

The local population is against the bloody terrorist too. They can run do some suicide psychotic acts but that cannot break the resolve of a nation. We have done very well since your creed has betrayed us. We can fight our own war. This war is for the future of our children. We cannot afford to loose it.

I will be the first one to enlist with the Army if such a need arises for reserves. As for now our Brave soldiers are gonna own Taliban.

You just wait a watch while brave mujahid's of Pakistan Army annihilate Taliban. These evil people are a friend to no one. They want death and destruction we will surely give them that.

Pakistan Zindabad
Pak Army Zindabad
COAS Zindabad
SSG Corp Zindabad

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Omar always moving both side of Pak Afghan boarder to protect him from enemy .so your claim is wrong.

Haqqani , Hekmatyar working under Omar and ujbik/tajik/chechan fighters, they dnt have any understanding with TTP faction of mehsud tribe.

I am not sure why you think the Uzbeks and Chechens (who brought around the barbaric practices of beheading captives and mutilating both the dead and alive) have nothing to do with the Mehsud Taliban.

Maulvi Nazir in fact earned B Mehsuds enimity when, with the support of the PA, he drove the Chechens and Uzbeks out of Waziri territory. And those Uzbeks and Chechens found sanctuary in Mehsud territory.

Of late, around the time of the 'patch up' between B Mehsud, Nazir and Bahadur, there were some reports of Nazir reconsidering whether to allow the Uzbeks and Chechens sanctuary in his territory.

And Mullah Omar may be the 'spiritual head' of the Afghan Taliban, but one can clearly see from events that he either has very little control over the actual commanders in the field (in terms of his instructions to not fight the Pakistani State) or he is being as duplicitous as Gul Bahdur.

The events I refer to are the various assaults, by Afghan taliban groups coming across the border in the hundreds, on Pakistani positions. In Bajaur, as S-2 pointed out, we had possibly close to a thousand Afghan Taliban come into Bajaur to help Maulvi Faqir Mohammed fight against the PA.

At this point I concur with S-2 - an all out assault in SW does have the potential of attracting many of the other Taliban groups, possibly even Nazir and Bahadur's men, while they pretend to be honoring the peace deal.

You have to understand what SW means psychologically for the Taliban - it has long held on to the aura of being the Tribal territory where invading forces got massacred. The Mehsud have long had the reputation of being the fiercest warrior Tribe in the Tribal areas. That entire edifice of invincibility comes crashing down (as it should) if the PA wins militarily (winning the insurgency will obviously be a longer term issue).

Also waziris and other Pushtoon tribes have no danger from PA waziristan operation and they have many alternate supplies routes so this war will not effect them.

The PA has tied very hard to win the Wazirs over by constructing new roads and infrastructure (clinics, electricity lines etc.) that make them independent of the Mehsud - lets hope the Wazir Tribal elders prevail over Nazir in keeping him neutral at least.

 

[HAIDER]

I'm afraid that you're misidentifying the 'CRAP' and bound to eat it up after the dust settled. And I don't even think that you have read my post properly. No where in my post, I've sounded like Bharat-Rakhrakkers and claim it is a Punjabi-Pashtun conflict. Moreover, PAK army composition is well-known to non-Bharat-Rakkhakers, so no need to tell me about 30% pashtuns inhabiting it, please. See, it is not; who want to create Pashtunistan like it was not us Bengalis that knew widely Bangladesh was coming even before 26th March's storm. So, please read the post to find out that the idea is being vehemently pushed from outside. And if you haven't got the message yet then here is more for you from the pushers, planners
(Neoconservative author Michael Ledeen argued in his 2002 book The War against the Terror Masters that America is a revolutionary nation, undoing traditional societies: "Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our own society and abroad. We tear down the old order every day, from business to science, literature, art, architecture, and cinema to politics and the law." His characterization of creative destruction as a model for social development has met with fierce opposition from pale conservatives. [8]). Finally, weren't Maulana Abdur Rashid Gazi a Majari and the most of the students were from SWAT, BUNAR and DIR ((Most of the students of the madrassa attached to the Lal Masjid belonged to Swat, Buner and Dir areas of the North West Frontier Province (NWFP) and were now extracting their revenge, Dawn Monday quoted Maulana Abdul Aziz, who was released last month after spending almost two years in jail, as saying.

“I had warned the then government not to go for the military operation on the mosque otherwise the situation would get out of control and I will not be responsible for the reaction,” he said.

“Most of my students belonged to Swat, Buner, Dir and some nearby areas and they are reacting and taking revenge of the blood of their relatives and friends,” Aziz added. Taliban avenging Lal Masjid assault: cleric)) in Lal Masjid?

Because they are tough guys, so army should adopt escape route and let them do what eva they like in capital city ?...Let govt face the reality. It ex govts who cultivated this seed of hate, now they have to harvest on their own expense. Let's face the reality. If somone is raising the arm against state, then one should see the consequences too...

 

[PakShaheen79]

I imagine a full-scale assault by the P.A. into the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan will draw every irhabista from Paktia, Paktika, Khost, Nangahar, Nuristan, and Konar.

No choice if their strategic rear, sanctuary, and supply/logistics nodes will be defended. Remember Bajaur? A.M. was correct that it damned near emptied Konar for a few weeks as Rehman and others brought hundreds back across to fight the P.A.

Thanks and good luck to your troops.

Let me help you bring you out of your imaginations dude. Nato has vacated 9 check posts in Kunar bordering Bajur, Why? To give save passage to Mulvi Faqir Muhammad into Afghanistan as Pakistani security forces were just about to capture him in ongoing offensive in Mohmand sub district of Bajur agency. So TTP is running back to its safe heven and epicenter i.e. Afghanistan under US/NATO occupation which has turned into a blackhole for peace in Pakistan.

I thing by doing such silly things NATO is just making more mess for itself. Why Faqir Mohammad was allowed to fled into Afghanistan without any resistance from Afghan national army and Nato troops there along with 2000 other fighters???

I thing it speaks volumes about who and where TTP actual belong to.

 

[S-2]

"I thing by doing such silly things NATO is just making more mess for itself."

Whatever you say, hoss.

Thanks.

 

[TruthSeeker]

You have to understand what SW means psychologically for the Taliban - it has long held on to the aura of being the Tribal territory where invading forces got massacred. The Mehsud have long had the reputation of being the fiercest warrior Tribe in the Tribal areas. That entire edifice of invincibility comes crashing down (as it should) if the PA wins militarily (winning the insurgency will obviously be a longer term issue).

I seriously hope that the GOP Ambassador in the US (maligned though he is by some here on the PDF) is yelling and screaming to my Government exactly this point that you have made AM about the importance of this fight. That is, the US has to do everything in its power to support the PA in winning this battle with the Mehsuds. Supplies, equipment, intelligence, drone strikes, whatever. I will write a letter to my senator James Webb tomorrow asking him to do whatever he can to influence the Obama Administration to behave as the most loyal ally it knows how to be for Pakistan in this fight. Webb, I think, is one of the few Democrats in Congress who could be persuasive. I will also mention to him the Defence.pk website as a place for him to get a sense of Pakistan's fight and resolve.


PS, I have sent my letter to Senator Webb just now. I have copied the text here (FYI) as post #81 on this thread. Other non-Pakistani citizens may want to contact their government representatives (if they have them) to urge support for Pakistan. Pakistan needs support from all nations.

 

[kidwaibhai]

yeah my uncle and i are going to write a letter to Evan Bayh saying the same thing after i read your thread.

 

[waraich66]

"...Hekmatyar working under Omar..."

I'm surprised by your comment about Hekmatyar and Omar. They are not friends nor does Hekmatyar subordinate his operations under Omar.

You are probably too young to recall that the ISI dumped Hekmatyar in favor of the afghan taliban and Omar back about 1995.

An odd comment, to be sure. Revealing, though, to your fundamental lol understanding-or, more accurately, lack therein.

You will get few more surprises soon

I am also shocked you dont know about united jehad alliance under mullah Omer?

You are not still catching my frequency , either too young or too old.

Asia Times - US shooting in the dark in Afghanistan

"Mullah Omar called upon the Taliban to offer sacrifices for evicting the American and allied soldiers from Afghanistan and fighting the puppet regime of [Afghan President] Hamid Karzai," Mujahid said. The 10 men identified by Omar as members of the Rahbari Shura (leadership council) include former Taliban military commanders, most of whom are veterans of the Afghan struggle against the Soviet occupation of 1979-1989. Taliban military commander Jalaluddin Haqqani is on the council, which is made up of commanders hailing from Kandahar, Helmand and other southwestern provinces where the Taliban originally emerged in 1994, Omar said. Two of the council members, Akhtar Mohammad Usmani, a confidante of Mullah Omar and the one-legged former intelligence chief Mullah Dadullah, are also names that appear on the Afghan government's wanted list that was given by Karzai to Pakistani authorities during his visit in April.

Investigations carried out by Asia Times Online reveal the following:

The resistance movement has been named Saiful Muslameen (Sword of Muslims), as reported by Asia Times Online - Al-Qaeda's deadly seeds bear fruit, May 20.

The central office is located in Asadabad, near the Pakistani border, while several training camps have been established in Parachinar and Miran Shah (both in Pakistan)and other places. These are mobile camps that can be moved quickly according to required needs.

The main military committee is headed by Mullah Omar, supported by his commanders, including Mullah Dadullah and Ahktar Usmani.

Under the Saiful Muslameen, Afghanistan has been divided into five operational zones.

The zone commanders include famed Pashtun warlord Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, leader of the Hizb-i-Islami, in Kunhar, Jalalabad, Kabul, Logar and Gazni. Khost and Paktia and Paktika are under the command of Maulana Jalaludin Haqqani, while Gardez is under the control of Mullah Saifullah Mansoor. The appointments of two more war zone commanders had not been made at the time this article was written. These zones include Kandahar, Urugzan and Zabul.

These is also another force in play. An organization called the Khuddamul Furqan (Servants of the Holy Koran)was established soon after the Taliban retreated without offering more than token resistance in the face of advancing Northern Alliance troops in early 2002, largely on the advice of some former officials of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/EF28Ag01.html

 

[fatman17]

saying many of the more sophisticated items were classified.

NVGs, bullet-proof vests,scopes for rifles - sophisticated!!! - not in the least!

for COIN, no sophisticated weapons r required - cobras, 105mm portable howitzers, spares and 20mm chain-gun ammo is hardly sophisticated.

 

[Javed3]

Decisive assault on South Waziristan has begun!

Pak Fauj Zinda Bad

Fateh-e-Waziristan Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Swat Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Bajaur Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Mohmand Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Khyber Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Lal Masjid Zida Bad

 

[Javed3]

Dear fatman17:
Anything in the ITAR list is "classified". And the list is pretty long.

 

[fatman17]

South Waziristan operation underway amid curfew

Saturday, 17 Oct, 2009 An intelligence official said soldiers, tanks and artillery were being taken towards militant areas. Telephone services had apparently been suspended to the region.

Taliban kill three soldiers in Shakai Taliban kill three soldiers in Shakai

PESHAWAR: Ground troops backed by warplanes and army gunships thrust towards Taliban bastions in South Waziristan on Saturday ahead of an all-out assault against the militants, officials said.

The mountainous region is in the border region with Afghanistan that US officials call the most dangerous place in the world and a stronghold for Pakistani Taliban chief Baitullah Mehsud, who was killed in a US drone attack.

Fighter jets and helicopter gunships have bombed Taliban positions for months as commanders finetuned plans for a ground offensive, which is expected to encounter heavy resistance on terrain well suited to the guerrillas.

‘Forces are moving inside Mehsud territory. Initially we had moved not full strength but some forces to establish foot holds,’ a senior military official told AFP in northwest Pakistan.

The official said three divisions of the military, paramilitary and police would be mobilised, eventually numbering up to 60,000 troops, to spearhead a lightning campaign before winter set in.

‘Troops from neighbouring Tank district and Dera Ismail Khan have already been moved towards Waziristan,’ a Pakistani intelligence official said.

Another military official in Peshawar confirmed that ground troops were moving towards Taliban strongholds in the vast district where experts estimate the Tehreek-e-Taliban (TTP) movement has 20,000 to 25,000 fighters.

Security officials said an announcement on the formal launch of the operation would be made by Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani.

‘It will be a very swift operation bearing in mind the weather conditions. Soon there will be a complete change in the weather and maybe snowfall. We will try to complete it before snowfall,’ said the military official.

‘Ground and air forces are moving. The objective is to clear all kinds of miscreants from South Waziristan,’ Tariq Hayat, a senior government official in Pakistan’s semi-autonomous tribal belt, told AFP, referring to the militants.

‘This has been in the works for a long time. It was only a question of timing and the timing was decided. Troops were in place and they moved in.’

The troop movement was accompanied by an indefinite curfew slapped on parts of South Waziristan from 7:00 am in the district of Wana, the main town in the vast and lawless region, as well as in Shakai and Tiarza, officials said.

‘The recent upsurge of terror incidents in the country were condemned and it was agreed that these elements pose a serious threat to the sovereignty and integrity of the state,’ said the prime minister’s office.

‘In the given circumstances, the national consensus is reaffirmed to establish and maintain the writ of the state to weed out these elements.’

‘You don’t have to make statements about launching an offensive in advance. It should be swift and a surprise,’ said analyst Hasan Askari.

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------

Decisive assault on South Waziristan has begun!

Pak Fauj Zinda Bad

Fateh-e-Waziristan Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Swat Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Bajaur Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Mohmand Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Khyber Zida Bad
Fateh-e-Lal Masjid Zida Bad

hint of sarcasm there 'old chap' !!

 

[fatman17]

Kayani, Pasha brief top politicians on security

Full-scale SWA operation imminent

* All parties support govt decision
* Army chief warns of rise in urban terror attacks during operation
* Action to involve fewer ground troops

 

[Hellfire]

you guys managed it ... shifted the campaign to your cities !!!

keep hitting heavy in the country and you will get them to target you in cities ...... again the rationale for such heavy deployments?

 

[Javed3]

Dear Taimikhan

Whereas you are right on the mark in respect of infantry fighting formations in a division; “”Brigade = 3units = 800*3= 2400 approx
One Div = 3 Brigades = 3*2400 = 7200 approx””

Your description of TO&E of a division is obviously flawed. During active operations, Organizational and support elements are actually higher in number than the fighting formations. They include:
 Headquarter / Staff elements
 Artillery
 Armor
 Signals
 Air Defense
 Reconnaissance
 Logistics & Supply
 Medical Services
 Combat Engineers
Therefore your average full strength division is not 7200, but close to about 14-15,000.

South Waziristan operation underway amid curfew
DAWN: Saturday, 17 Oct, 2009
“”The official said three divisions of the military, paramilitary and police would be mobilised, eventually numbering up to 60,000 troops, to spearhead a lightning campaign before winter set in””.

In addition you have to consider the following factors:
1. How long can you keep the combat formations in the self created “war zone”? You got to rotate them? You got to have reserves.
2. Some formations will go under strength due to casualties and combat losses.
3. These are Aviation intensive operations. The workhorse is MI-17. Due to excessive abuse during Swat operations we have run out of spares and most airframes are due to overhaul. Recently the US Army transferred two (2) Afghan Army MI-17’s to absorb the crushing burden.

In simple words Pakistan Army has no choice but to move fighting formations and support elements (especially aviation) from the Indian border.

This is a serious vulnerability, because in the event of tensions on the Eastern Border PA does not have the flexibility to move the FATA deployed troops. We are no more as “India Centric” as we wish to call it. In simple words we have “lost” the equivalent of about eight (8) divisions!