Operation Rah-e-Nijat (South Waziristan)

[Javed3]

Taimikhan:

“”I love to get in a discussion with people and share, but is not what i want all the time. I have a very vast family exposure in the armed forces, one of my bro is himself in the operation zone, and myself i have a very in depth knowledge of the armed forces and its working and structure””.

We are all here to learn from professionals like yourself having all round exposure to the forces.

Since you are convinced that SW operation is a cake walk, with no perceptible impact on our infinitely large forces with infinitely huge resources; we stand convinced too.

 

[Spring Onion]

Pakistan takes Taliban stronghold

Pakistani forces say they have seized control of the town of Kaniguram in South Waziristan, one of the Taliban's key regional strongholds.

The army said it had full control of the town, the latest capture in an offensive against militants that began in South Waziristan on 17 October.

The offensive has sparked a string of suicide bomb attacks.

About 35 people were killed in an attack in Rawalpindi and seven were injured on the outskirts of Lahore.

Rewards offered

Military spokesman Maj Gen Athar Abbas, in the capital Islamabad, said that the Kaniguram area had been "completely cleared of terrorists".

He said that troops had cleared the area of both mines and improvised explosive devices after carrying out house-to-house searches.

"We have recovered five truck-loads of ammunition, arms and explosives," he said.

The town was thought to have been home to hundreds of Uzbek militants, led by the hardline Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan.

Encircled by mountains, it also hosts substantial numbers of militants loyal to the Pakistani Taliban, led by Hakimullah Mehsud.

Earlier in the offensive, the military captured his birthplace, the town of Kotkai.


Advertisement
Two bombers on a motorbike blew themselves up on a busy Rawalpindi street

Pakistan's government has offered rewards totalling $5m (£3m) for information leading to the capture of Hakimullah Mehsud, two other Taliban leaders and 15 commanders.

In a front-page advertisement in Pakistan's daily, The News, the largest sum of $600,000 was promised for the capture - dead or alive - of Hakimullah Mehsud.

It said his Tehrik-e-Taliban group was involved in acts of terrorism that were causing the death of innocent Muslims on a daily basis.

'Completely destroyed'

In Rawalpindi, police said two bombers mounted on a motorbike blew themselves up in a busy street, near a bank where people were queuing for their salaries. At least 30 people died and some 60 were injured.


AT THE SCENE

Orla Guerin, BBC News, Rawalpindi
Local people said the area was absolutely packed with people at the time the explosion took place. One man came rushing to search for his father who had been going to pick up his pension. That man has not yet been found. His son said he was making a direct appeal to the government: Please, save our lives.

Pakistan has been hit by what feels like a relentless wave of attacks. In spite of the fact the army is conducting a massive assault on Taliban territory in South Waziristan, it is clear the militants have retained the capacity to strike.

There is a real sense here of being under siege, of being vulnerable. There is a great deal of anxiety and also frustration with the government that the streets cannot be made safer.

The blast took place in a car park behind the four-star Shalimar hotel, next to a branch of the National Bank of Pakistan.

Police Supt Rana Shahid told BBC Urdu: "The men were probably wearing explosive jackets and the bike was definitely packed with material as well. That was why the explosion was so powerful."

One survivor, Rizwan Mehmood, said he had come to the bank to pay a traffic fine when the explosion went off.

"Just before the blast I saw a woman with three children in a vehicle in the car park," he said.

"After the blast, I saw the car they were sitting in, and it was completely destroyed."

Raja Sher Ali, a marketing manager in a local company, told AFP: "Our building shook as if in an earthquake and when we came out there was smoke everywhere and body parts were thrown into our office."

Another man, Mohammad Saleem, said he had left his child in his car while he went into the bank to collect his salary.


RECENT MILITANT ATTACKS
1 Nov - At least 35 killed in Rawalpindi
28 Oct - At least 118 killed by a car bomb in a market in Peshawar
23 Oct - At least 22 killed in three attacks in northern Pakistan
20 Oct - Eight die in the twin blasts at a university in Islamabad
16 Oct - Twelve die in a bombing in Peshawar
15 Oct - About 40 die in a series of gun and bomb attacks
12 Oct - Security convoy attacked in Swat valley, 41 die
10 Oct - Militants attack Rawalpindi army HQ - 20 killed
9 Oct - At least 50 die in Peshawar suicide blast
5 Oct - Five killed in suicide bomb at UN Islamabad offices


In pictures: Rawalpindi bomb
Pakistan offers Taliban bounties
Bold tactics stun Pakistan
Who are the Taliban?
"I ran out from the building... and saw so many dead bodies," he told the Associated Press news agency.

"Now they're not giving me permission to go and look, and I don't know where my child is."

The blast struck just half a kilometre from Pakistan's army headquarters, where militants carried out a deadly attack last month that claimed nearly two dozen lives.

Later, on the outskirts of Lahore two bombers detonated explosives in a car they drove to a police checkpoint. Several police were among the injured.

About 300 people have been killed in attacks since mid-October.

Last week, more than 100 people were killed when a huge car bomb ripped through a busy market in Peshawar.

The ongoing violence led the United Nations to announce on Monday that it was withdrawing international staff from north-west Pakistan.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said in a statement that the decision had been taken "bearing in mind the intense security situation in the region".


BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan takes Taliban stronghold

 

[ejaz007]

Ejaz007

“”Recovered: Abbas said large quantities of Indian arms and ammunition, literature, medical equipment and medicines had been recovered from Sherwangi near Kaniguram. He said the Foreign Office had been informed of the discoveries and the matter would be taken up through diplomatic channels with the Indian authorities””.

Indian medicines are cheap, and available almost everywhere in Pakistan, including Lahore and Karachi. Peshawar markets are served through smuggling from Afghanistan.

Providing arms to TTP is a very serious development and should lead to very drastic action by the government. But our leadership is content with taking up the matter through “diplomatic channels”.

This means that this is a cheap propaganda to garner support from mainstream Pakistan for a questionable cause.

Javed 3,

I have only reproduced the report as it was carried by the newspaper without adding or subtracting any thing from it.

Perhaps you also know that the army had laid seige to South Waziristan for the last three months before starting the offensive. They were regularly carrying out bombings using fixed wing aircraft and gunship helicopters. Terrorists were getting wounded and were being taken careoff. I doubt they had such a large stockpile of medicines with them. These medicines might have been smuggled in through Afghanistan. Since Pakistani medicine is not easily available either in Afghanistan or India that is why perhaps they had to bring in the Indian medicine. This is my theory.

 

[Javed3]

S-2:

“”Again, Javed3, YOU tread out of your depth with an incomplete and racially skewed understanding of how a functioning democracy works. You won't learn such by watching Michael Moore videos nor by investing your time trolling irhabist websites””.

Functioning democracy also equates to:
 AIPAC - (America Israel Public Action Committee).
 ADL - (Anti Defamation league - The Independent Order of B'nai B'rith),
 NDIA – (National Defense Industrial Association)

Yes, the US has a Black President. But Pakistani’s daily life is shaped by H-H and CENTCOM. A KKK type racist machinery is responsible for implementing the Iraq and AFPAK policies.

 

[Javed3]

S-2:

You probably did not read the following:

“”Goods already in Britain or in transit were sold to the UK government at heavily discounted prices — one-tenth of their value — the amount paid being in the form of a loan.
The amount, together with a line of credit, was $4.34 billion with a 2% interest rate, originally intended to be paid back over 50 years beginning in 1950””.

And please check this out:
Lend-Lease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“”A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to nearly $700 billion at 2007 prices) worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion to China. Reverse Lend Lease comprised services (like rent on air bases) that went to the U.S. It totaled $7.8 billion, of which $6.8 billion came from the British and the Commonwealth. The terms of the agreement provided that the material was to be used until time for their return or destruction. (Supplies after the termination date were sold to Britain at a discount, for £1.075 billion, using long-term loans from the U.S.) Canada operated a similar program that sent $4.7 billion in supplies to Britain and Soviet Union””

Pakistan will be glad to buy 300 F-16s Block-52 with a co-production License from Lockheed Martin for a princely price of US$ 3 m each. The US$ 900 m 2% Loan will be paid in full in 50 years.

The US can advance US$ 10 b / year with a precipitate Book value of US$ 1 b / year to paid at 2% over 50 years.

Once you treat us as an ally like UK, we will also deliver performance by killing every human within 50 kms of the Afghan border … the Ultimate scorched earth!!

 

[Javed3]

Ejaz007:

Your theory on Indian medicines is 100% correct.

 

[TaimiKhan]

We are all here to learn from professionals like yourself having all round exposure to the forces.

Since you are convinced that SW operation is a cake walk, with no perceptible impact on our infinitely large forces with infinitely huge resources; we stand convinced too.

Javed, sorry to be saying this, i don't know about others but at least in our conversations, the result that i have seen is that you have not learnt anything from our conversations and discussions. I hope you had as then it would have been a very interesting dialogue to take up with you, but you needle is stick at one place.

Plz provide a post or a comment from me, where i have said that it is a cake walk for the PA in SW operation, would really like your help in this case.

I have never said that deployment of PA in SWA or other agencies has no perceptible impact on our infinitely large forces with infinitely huge resources, i have just countered your over the edge exaggeration about the impact in respect to the preparedness level on the eastern front, its not that huge as the way you have exaggerated. PA has sufficient forces in place to counter any sudden move by IA, war does not starts in a day or two, they also need to mobilize their army taking time, we can also mobilize the army in time, whether they are in SWA or NWA or Swat or anywhere else.

And if you think i am some pro-american arse, kindly remove such notion from your thoughts, i am as anti-american as you are, am as much against the US occupation of Afghanistan and other countries as you are, I fully support the Afghan Mujaheddin fighting for their homeland, but i am totally against AQ for their sick logic and violence & most of all I fully support PA in its fight against those who challenge the writ of the govt in the name of Islam by killing innocent human beings, Muslims to be exact by openly accepting responsibility for their actions through their interviews which can clearly be seen on TV and justifying it through Islamic teachings which are made up to suit their own agenda by their illiterate Maulvis and Maulanas without ever having gone to any Islamic madrassa or school in their life or having been kicked out or ran away. Killing of any Muslim except for the crimes having been committed and whose penalty being told in Quran is unjustified and those who do such things are the Fitna we have been told about and in my view are liable to be killed.
And anyone who supports these barbarians is just like them and deserves the same treatment as they do.

If you get sometime do read the Ayat # 11,12 in Surat Al-Baqarah and then match it to the current situation and the so called agenda of implementation of Shariah of these illiterate fasadees.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Javed 3,

I have only reproduced the report as it was carried by the newspaper without adding or subtracting any thing from it.

Perhaps you also know that the army had laid seige to South Waziristan for the last three months before starting the offensive. They were regularly carrying out bombings using fixed wing aircraft and gunship helicopters. Terrorists were getting wounded and were being taken careoff. I doubt they had such a large stockpile of medicines with them. These medicines might have been smuggled in through Afghanistan. Since Pakistani medicine is not easily available either in Afghanistan or India that is why perhaps they had to bring in the Indian medicine. This is my theory.

First of all Ejaz, the besieged area had no boundary with Afghanistan, its miles away from the besieged militants and to reach the boundary they have to go through the Wazir tribe area and for that they need to also go to the villages and towns under the Wazir tribe, who have sufficient shops having Pakistani medical supplies from where they could procure these items, also the besieged area is bordered by the Jandola-Tank area on once side and FR Lakki Marwat and FR Bannu and NWA from other sides, providing sufficient gaps through which to get supplies in, which already had been happening. So i believe the theory holds very less ground, rather gives more strength to the view that they were being given Indian medical supplies as it would be costing them not a single penny as it was aid to the TTP.

 

[Javed3]

Taimikhan

“”PA is stupid to have been run by Kiyani, the seat of Kiyani truly deserves a genius military mind like yours and your 2nd in command can be the one who admires your posts the most””.

No sir, Gen Kiyani is ideally suited for this kind of war. He attended the US Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, USA. Fort Leavenworth AC&SC is also known as the Latino Party School. Officers from military Juntas of Honduras, Bolivia, Costa Rica, Panama, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Argentina and various banana republic were honed in the art of COIN (counter-insurgency). In simple words they were conditioned to fight the communist menace through mass exterminations, torture, institutionalized rape, bombing and pillage etc. General Manuel Noriega was one of the famous graduates.

The above does not mean that all the US Army Staff colleges are rotten like this. Some good institutions like Fort Rucker (Army Aviation), Fort Knox (Armor), Fort Hood, Fort Sill etc.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Even if they were new they should have dirt on them from handling - these 20 year-old mortars appear to lack even thumbprints on their shiny parts. Why would India ship terrorists HE rounds rather than armor-piercing? HE rounds are for blowing up rocks, buildings, and personnel. Couldn't these weapons have been captured from the Indian Army in the glacier wars?

The Indian weaponry may have been cleaned off for better display -after all, it had a separate sign indicating origin. That does not indicate malicious intent, just that the PA wanted to make sure the origin was clear.

As for the blindfolds - I don't know, are they illegal? I though waterboarding, other torture and detention without charge in Gitmo was illegal?

I think one of the PA's objectives is to make India out as the chief culprit - whether true or not!

The PA has pointed out Indian origin weaponry and equipment - whether there is more to it, such as India providing direct or indirect support to the TTP as a State, we shall find out as more information is uncovered. Nonetheless, from the perspective of the Pakistani masses the connection has been made, and that will hopefully help keep sentiment anti-TTP .

 

[All-Green]

Taimikhan

“”PA is stupid to have been run by Kiyani, the seat of Kiyani truly deserves a genius military mind like yours and your 2nd in command can be the one who admires your posts the most””.

No sir, Gen Kiyani is ideally suited for this kind of war. He attended the US Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, USA. Fort Leavenworth AC&SC is also known as the Latino Party School. Officers from military Juntas of Honduras, Bolivia, Costa Rica, Panama, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Argentina and various banana republic were honed in the art of COIN (counter-insurgency). In simple words they were conditioned to fight the communist menace through mass exterminations, torture, institutionalized rape, bombing and pillage etc. General Manuel Noriega was one of the famous graduates.

The above does not mean that all the US Army Staff colleges are rotten like this. Some good institutions like Fort Rucker (Army Aviation), Fort Knox (Armor), Fort Hood, Fort Sill etc.

The Command and General Staff College is housed in Fort Leavenworth...it is not a torture school or one teaching all the above which you have so confidently attributed to the facility.
It offers courses in how to conduct joint operations and is a well known facility with excellent standards.
To attend a course in such a facility is a good thing for our top ranks.

 

[Ratus Ratus]

Elmo & S-2
just a small issue re UW.

definition of interest:
Operations conducted by, with, or through irregular forces in support of a resistance movement, an insurgency, or conventional military operations. FM 3-05.201 28 September 2007

The definition via Wikipedia, which Elmo I think you used, and based from JP 1-02: Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms, 12 July 2007, is nice but is for a generalised consumption.

 

[Javed3]

Taimikhan

I do agree with you that the TTP guys in general do not have an adequate grasp of Islamic teachings, or a correct understanding of the crucial issues. They are mostly over zealous, simplistic dropouts from Medrassahs. They don’t know about a decent style of governance either.

You and I hail from the same region and ethnicity. Both of us know that any group trying to simply muscle its way into a power base will soon realize that their skulls are not exactly made of Kevlar. They gained strength due to their popular proletariat appeal. Our people have been groaning under mass poverty, joblessness, deprivation for ages. Select Muajib Khwar Maliks and Khwaneen in connivance with the Political Agents and FC, buoyed by drugs and smuggling money essentially ruled the lives of FATA people. The spark to this fuel / air mixture was provided by Musharraf Government, and later perpetuated by the Zardari / Army setup. This is how a crane operator like Mangal Bagh decimated the power base of Haji Ayub Afridi and others of his elk.

The key issue is that the Writ of the Government is no more recognized by the masses. Please, this is not to be confused with the Writ of the State of Pakistan. Unlike Baluchistan nobody has torn the Pakistani flag anywhere; people are still loyal to the State.

Musharraf Govt had no legitimacy at all. The present government too does not command a semblance of legitimacy. Even you are reluctant to recognize a convicted felon like Zardari as the head of state. Army lost its halo of respect by acting like a SWAT squad for the Americans, being too “JAZBATI” for its role as a “US ally” in the “war on Terror”. You know and I know how much of an “Ally” we really are. The little thread of legitimacy that our forces had was lost when they aided, abetted and facilitated Drone Strikes on our own soil. Where is there role as the Defenders of the national boundaries?

Fear and insecurity is ruining our lives. People in the mainstream Pakistan fear the semtex / RDX, people in FATA are facing artillery shells, bombing, drones and the indignity of being an IDP.

In a nutshell we have volunteered to turn our country into a battleground between two (2) entities (Govt / Army and TTP), both of whom lack legitimacy. Finally the Bill has to be paid by the nation. Our masters (USA) are paying only about 10% of the real costs. This means more inflation, more load shedding, more diseases, more illiteracy, and more crime and killings.

Perhaps in a year we will reach a stage when about 2 million strong Army and security personnel have to guard the public and installations. That’s the beginning of the ARVN syndrome. How long can we afford it? Of course this is based on the premise that the US will keep India in good humor.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ammo discussion related posts moved here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/37995-proof-indian-involvement-waziristan-found-army.html

 

[S-2]

"Once you treat us as an ally like UK, we will also deliver performance by killing every human within 50 kms of the Afghan border … the Ultimate scorched earth!!"

Once you devote your entire treasury and armed forces in the same manner that the U.K did in W.W.II perhaps we shall. To date you haven't.

Finally, we can do without your enthusiastic if genocidal approach, especially should your enthusiasm spill over to the afghan side of that border as I fear it might.