Operation Peace Spring in Northern Syria : The Turkish initiative to create safe zone

[LeGenD]

So why is there a total lack of logic in your own posts. This is a war zone, war zones are known for such things. There will continue to be displacement and destruction until the end of the conflict, and this will not happen until all terrorist elements in Syria are disarmed or brought under control. The mere presence of the PKK has led the the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people from northern syria. If anything this operation will begin to bring an end to an existing humanitarian crisis that has external displaced 7 million, killed half a million and internally displaced many more.

Already there are reports of people returning to their homes in Tel Abyd.

And regarding Western media, Is the reporting proportionate to the magnitude of the actual events? That is all I will say.

Notice following 'gems' in your post?

"Where was the humanitarian crisis in Turkey's last two operations? You are just repeating what you hear in western media. The same media that has been silent on any possibility of humanitarian crises every time Assad and co heavily bombed and made offensives into Rebel held areas."

Yet you see total lack of logic in my posts.

Sometimes I wonder if I am dealing with high school dropouts here.

Point is that Syria was almost peaceful but Turkey have opened a new chapter of humanitarian crises in Syria with the ongoing military operation. From Turkish standpoint, concerns about PKK are valid, but to go as far as to create a buffer zone in another country amount to act of aggression. This issue could be handled in a much better way.

Your lack of empathy is palpable. Your home is not burning in it therefore it is easy for you to pick sides on political grounds here.

As for declaring an entire bloc of people as terrorists without any understanding of demographics of the region, is utterly stupid. Imagine yourself living in a region where administration is declared terrorist by a foreign entity and bombs start falling in the surroundings.

Now STFU.

 

[Rogue1]

Notice following 'gems' in your post?

"Where was the humanitarian crisis in Turkey's last two operations? You are just repeating what you hear in western media. The same media that has been silent on any possibility of humanitarian crises every time Assad and co heavily bombed and made offensives into Rebel held areas."

Yet you see total lack of logic in my posts.

Sometimes I wonder if I am dealing with high school dropouts here.

Point is that Syria was almost peaceful but Turkey have opened a new chapter of humanitarian crises in Syria with the ongoing military operation. From Turkish standpoint, concerns about PKK are valid, but to go as far as to create a buffer zone in another country amount to act of aggression. This issue could be handled in a much better way.

Your lack of empathy is palpable. Your home is not burning in it therefore it is easy for you to pick sides on political grounds here.

As for declaring an entire bloc of people as terrorists without any understanding of demographics of the region, is utterly stupid. Imagine yourself living in a region where administration is declared terrorist by a foreign entity and bombs start falling in the surroundings.

Now STFU.

Syria was almost peaceful? I don't know what your idea of peaceful is but the two posts I have seen of yours contain some sort of insult.

Declaring an entire block of people terrorists? Erdogan has always said that the Kurds are our brothers and we are fighting the YPG/PKK not Kurds. It's the Media(again) that constantly say that he is fighting the Kurds.

Demographics of Region: The Kurds made up 7%- 10% (some even say 5%) of Syria before the conflict. But they now control 25-30% of the region including most of the water and oil resources and well as a large percentage of the agricultural land. Also this same group has been silencing political opposition in the region as well as forcefully displacing people, or not allowing them to return to their homes.

We have seen this all before in Iraq, Afghanistan and even Bosnia with change of demographics. It seems to be US policy to create "endless wars".

I really don't want to argue with you, It appears you are just a child. The best thing is to wait a few years and see the consequences of the actions that are happening today and you may see a better picture. Also you may have grown up by then.

 

[LeGenD]

Syria was almost peaceful? I don't know what your idea of peaceful is but the two posts I have seen of yours contain some sort of insult.

Declaring an entire block of people terrorists? Erdogan has always said that the Kurds are our brothers and we are fighting the YPG/PKK not Kurds. It's the Media(again) that constantly say that he is fighting the Kurds.

Demographics of Region: The Kurds made up 7%- 10% (some even say 5%) of Syria before the conflict. But they now control 25-30% of the region including most of the water and oil resources and well as a large percentage of the agricultural land. Also this same group has been silencing political opposition in the region as well as forcefully displacing people, or not allowing them to return to their homes.

We have seen this all before in Iraq, Afghanistan and even Bosnia with change of demographics. It seems to be US policy to create "endless wars".

I really don't want to argue with you, It appears you are just a child. The best thing is to wait a few years and see the consequences of the actions that are happening today and you may see a better picture. Also you may have grown up by then.

Kurd demographics at a glance.

"That splash of red in the middle is really important: ethnic Kurds, who have no country of their own but big communities in Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey."

REFERENCES

https://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east

So how are you going to single out PKK individuals from all that?

SDF-YPG is a Syrian kurd regime. Members of PKK might be involved but they do not represent this organization on the whole. Syrian kurd regime was created by US to counter ISIS in the region because ISIS posit greatest threat to modern civilizations and peace in the world at present.

Maybe it is time for you to grow up.

 

[vi-va]

Turks? LOL. Why do you keep saying Turks and Mongols? Mongols invaded Asia. They raped you and forced you to act like them because you had no culture, no history and no significance to stay independent.

Unlike you, Iran survived both the Arab and Mongol invasions because we had culture and influence. You're just a fart in the air with nothing of your own who wants to steal the name Turk from Central Asians and Mongols.

And no matter how much you say that joke, the truth remains that Anatolia has always been an extension of Greater Iran and you will join the motherland soon.

If it weren't for Iran, a military coup had already ousted Erdogan. Erdogan cried like a baby and asked Iran for help and even spent all the time during the coup in Iran. It was Iran that saved his ***. Otherwise, you were back to US stooges again.

Hi Bro, I create a table comparing Iran and China history, let me know if you are interested.
@Parsipride @QWECXZ

 

[MMM-E]

Point is that Syria was almost peaceful but Turkey have opened a new chapter of humanitarian crises in Syria with the ongoing military operation

Kurdish Population is about 5% in Syria ..... but the US backed PKK/YPG Terrorists invaded Arab cities including Munbij , Telabyad , Rasulayn , Raqqa ,Deir al Zour , etc (30% of Syrian territory ) under the mask of fighting ISIS

and PKK/YPG Terrorists killed thousands of Arabs-Turkmens and forced hundreds of thousands of Arabs-Turkmens to move to Turkey from their lands in N.Syria

over 300.000 Syrian Kurds and millions of Syrian Arabs are in Turkey now
and Turkish Army has started cleaning muslim Arab cities from christian the US-France backed invader communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists

so humanitarian crises will be resolved and millions of Syrian refugees will return to their lands


now STFU

Syrian kurd regime was created by US to counter ISIS in the region because ISIS posit greatest threat to modern civilizations and peace in the world at present.

Syrian kurd regime was created by the US to invade 30% Syrian territory under the mask of fighting ISIS to destroy Syria's territorial integrity and to create so-called Kurdistan for Israeli interests

 

[LeGenD]

Kurdish Population is about 5% in Syria ..... but the US backed PKK/YPG Terrorists invaded Arab cities including Munbij , Telabyad , Rasulayn , Raqqa ,etc (30% of Syrian territory ) under the mask of fighting ISIS

and PKK/YPG Terrorists killed thousands of Arabs-Turkmens and forced hundreds of thousands of Arabs-Turkmens to move to Turkey from their lands in N.Syria

over 300.000 Syrian Kurds and millions of Syrian Arabs are in Turkey
and Turkish Army has started cleaning muslim Arab cities from christian the US-France backed invader communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists

so humanitarian crises will be solved and millions of Syrian refugees will return to their lands


now STFU

Turkey have its own narrative to justify its excesses in Syria much like other stakeholders in the region such as Russia, Iran and USA. Being a Turkish national, it is logical for you to toe the line of your state. Therefore, I will be easy on you.

I would like to clarify a few things.

1. I absolutely oppose politically-motivated separatist ambitions of any organization in Turkey be it PKK or any other rogue entity. What I do not wish to happen in Pakistan, I do not wish to happen in Turkey or another Islamic country either. This is a matter of having a principle, and not being a hypocrite.

2. I have also provided an overview of kurd demographics in my previous post. Link: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/oper...create-safe-zone.638588/page-55#post-11836506

It is unrealistic to overlook kurd demographics in a discussion about the SDF-YPG regime in Syria.

Syrian kurd encompass The Yezidi, The Kurmanj, and The Badni. Take a good look at where these ethnic groups are/were located prior to Syrian Civil War: http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/images/maps/Syria_Group_Divisions_lg.png

When Syria plunged into civil war in 2011, the aforementioned groups had no choice but to take up arms to protect themselves from all manner of aggression.

Under American guidance, the aforementioned groups banded together to establish the SDF-YPG regime when ISIS showed up at their doors (i.e. Operation Inherent Resolve). In fact, kurd from all over the world joined the SDF-YPG regime to fight ISIS, and therefore, this regime have a multi-ethnic character at present.

The SDF-YPG regime have administrative mandate in Syria only - in areas which it recaptured from ISIS during the course of Operation Inherent Resolve (2014 - 2018).

3. Turkish agenda is to create a buffer zone between Turkey and Syria:-

Now that is literally 'regional demographics altering' proposal and move, and Turkey is going as far as to uproot Syrian kurd groups in the process under the mask of countering PKK.

How is this move justifiable?

This move is utterly devoid of rationalism and not well-received by the international community consequently. Turkey is risking a prolonged war with kurd in this manner. Not just the kurd but the original Assad-led Syrian regime + Russia are getting involved in this matter.

Now that US is out from Syria, Turkey is on its own in this endeavor. Assad-led Syrian regime + Russia will find it much easier to drive Turkey from Syria now.

 

[MMM-E]

It is unrealistic to overlook kurd demographics in a discussion about the SDF-YPG regime in Syria.

Do you think all Kurds support PKK/YPG Terrorists ? never
most of muslim Kurds so hate communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists , therefore communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists forced hundreds of thousands of muslim Kurds to move Turkey and Iraq from their lands in Syria

also in Turkey most of Kurds vote for AKP , CHP and MHP instead of HDP ( pro-PKK )


so stop calling all Kurds as PKK/YPG Terrorist supporter
Kurdish FALCONS Brigade (400 Kurdish and 200 Arab Fighters ) was formed as part of the Hamza Division of FSA to fight PKK/YPG

The SDF-YPG regime have administrative mandate in Syria only - in areas which it recaptured from ISIS during the course of Operation Inherent Resolve (2014 - 2018).

Syrian kurd regime was created by the US to invade 30% Syrian territory under the mask of fighting ISIS to destroy Syria's territorial integrity and to create so-called Kurdistan for Israeli interests

That is literally regional demographics altering move, and Turkey is going as far as to uproot Syrian kurd groups in the process under the mask of countering PKK.

stop lying

I am saying again
Kurdish Population is about 5% in Syria ..... but the US backed PKK/YPG Terrorists invaded Arab cities including Munbij , Telabyad , Rasulayn , Raqqa ,Deir al Zour , etc (30% of Syrian territory ) under the mask of fighting ISIS

and PKK/YPG Terrorists killed thousands of Kurds-Arabs-Turkmens and forced hundreds of thousands of Kurds-Arabs-Turkmens to move to Turkey from their lands in N.Syria

that was literally regional demographics altering move by PKK/YPG Terrorists

now over 300.000 muslim Syrian Kurds are in Turkey because fear of communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists
now millions of muslim Syrian Arabs are in Turkey because fear of communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists and ASSAD Regime

now Turkish Army clean muslim Syrian cities from christian the US-France backed invader communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists

and millions of Syrian refugees will return to their lands

Not just the kurd but the original Assad-led Syrian regime + Russia are getting involved in this matter and will eventually work to push Turkey out.

keep dreaming dream is free

 

[LeGenD]

Do you think all Kurds support PKK/YPG Terrorists ? never
most of muslim Kurds so hate communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists , therefore communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists forced hundreds of thousands of muslim Kurds to move Turkey and Iraq from their lands in Syria

also most of Kurds vote for AKP , CHP and MHP instead of HDP ( pro-PKK )

so stop calling all Kurds as PKK/YPG Terrorist supporter








Syrian kurd regime was created by the US to invade 30% Syrian territory under the mask of fighting ISIS to destroy Syria's territorial integrity and to create so-called Kurdistan for Israeli interests





stop lying

I am saying again
Kurdish Population is about 5% in Syria ..... but the US backed PKK/YPG Terrorists invaded Arab cities including Munbij , Telabyad , Rasulayn , Raqqa ,Deir al Zour , etc (30% of Syrian territory ) under the mask of fighting ISIS

and PKK/YPG Terrorists killed thousands of Kurds-Arabs-Turkmens and forced hundreds of thousands of Kurds-Arabs-Turkmens to move to Turkey from their lands in N.Syria

that was literally regional demographics altering move by PKK/YPG Terrorists

now over 300.000 muslim Syrian Kurds are in Turkey because fear of communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists
now millions of muslim Syrian Arabs are in Turkey because fear of communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists and ASSAD Regime

now Turkish Army clean muslim Syrian cities from christian the US-France backed invader communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists

and millions of Syrian refugees will return to their lands







keep dreaming dream is free

You sound more like a 'propaganda bot' and not an independent observer. You intentionally and deliberately overlook Syrian kurd demographics and its role in the formation of SDF-YPG regime to counter ISIS movement in the region during the course of Syrian Civil War, in your views.

PKK/YPG Terrorists? Give me a break.

ISIS displaced huge number of people from the region, not this PKK/YPG nonsense. This kind of branding is utterly dishonest.

 

[MMM-E]

You sound more like a 'propaganda bot' and not an independent observer.

No more your lies and propaganda wont work

PKK/YPG Terrorists? Give me a break.

American Defense Secretary Ashton Carter confirms "substantial ties" between the PYD/YPG and PKK

so PKK was recognized as terrorist organization by the US , the EU , Syria , Iran , Iraq and many more countries

ISIS displaced huge number of people in the region, not this PKK-YPG nonsense.

Then why still over 300.000 muslim Syrian Kurds are in Turkey ?
Then why still over 200.000 muslim Syrian Kurds are in Iraq ?

because fear of communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists who killed thousands of muslim Syrian Kurds

 

[dBSPL]

@LeGenD
Insistently, you use maps that have nothing to do with reality to support your perceptions. This is definitely not a moral attitude. It is no different from terrorist propaganda.

While accusing others of ethnic changes, you don't even get the amnesty reports of the PKK/YPG. You don't want to remember what you did in Raqqa in Menbic. Look at the TelAbyad report, see what happened in Resulayn a few years ago.

The ethnic structure of Syria is as follows: (1935)

(2011)

This is the situation that occurred when the civil war began.

Now, ignoring this basic reality and defending the truth of the picture created by the US and Russian occupation: in its lightest terms, it is foolish.

***

Another issue is to persistently try to address this situation in the Kurdish-Turkish dilemma. The truth is that Turkey is the world's largest Kurdish country. Istanbul is the largest Kurdish city in the world. Today there are about 150 Kurdish parliamentarians in 3 different parties in Parliament. About half of them are on the conservative wing and the other half on the nationalist left wing.There is also an extreme religious and pkk enemy structure that fails to enter the parliament. Locally strong but often boycott the elections.

Turkish blood and Kurdish blood are intertwined. It has been a family for generations. My mother is Kurdish and my father is Turkish. How are you gonna separate me? How will you classify millions of families?

Our struggle is related to the Pkk-Kck structure. If there will be a Kurdish state: It cant be created by who located in terrorist activities in the territory of Turkey and Iraq over 40 years or by who killed tens of thousands of civilians without separationor by who international drug smuggler gangs. Come to yourself, what you're defending now is a terrorist organization. Today, you are the advocate of a state that comes from 12,000 kilometers away and what Israel has decided. And with great prejudice. This is an unconscious policy that ruins all such balances here and it decides to destroy everything else.

Until the year 2011, there was a peace process In Turkey . The state showed great common sense against the PKK. We've made our goodwill. So what did we get in return? Powered by the US, and also armed PKK by US, which has used this power to occupy cities in Turkey. Even now, do you know that mortars fall every day in our border areas? Once you have shared our pain? But now you judging us now?

Look, the BBC, came to border areas after operation start. Its purpose is make news that the Kurdish rebellion in Turkey. But what did they see? Turkey flag Kurds celebrating the operation

Anyway, I clearly see that you know these things. You know as a Pakistani. And I see very well what you want to do.

Anyone who has tampered with some message history of you, they can see how different perspective when issues comes to your homeland. This operation will be over soon. And We'il be able to spend more time here. Then we start judging your understandings.

 

[LeGenD]

No more your lies and propaganda wont work



American Defense Secretary Ashton Carter confirms "substantial ties" between the PYD/YPG and PKK

so PKK was recognized as terrorist organization by the US , the EU , Syria , Iran , Iraq and many more countries





Then why still over 300.000 muslim Syrian Kurds are in Turkey ?
Then why still over 200.000 muslim Syrian Kurds are in Iraq ?

because fear of communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists who killed thousands of muslim Syrian Kurds

Again, your entire focus is on political statements instead of kurd demographics in Syria. I won't waste my time on you further.

 

[Timur]

I have a video wich shows ypg mistreatment of two ppl their skin is coverd by blood because they are permanently wiped

a red yellow star flag some ypg sign on the uniform

I do not post it because of grafics content ban on the forum!


but here some videos of freed zones:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1183842479428296704

I am sorry I could not delete the topic above my twitter post

the above picture is from jewish german media wich lies and says brutal erdogans fight against the kurds and in the video you can see how brutal it really is.. the freed kurds and arabs are in happiness to get free from the ultrakommunist nazis ypg and their brutal inhuman terror reign

 

[Indos]

@LeGenD

Our struggle is related to the Pkk-Kck structure. If there will be a Kurdish state: It cant be created by who located in terrorist activities in the territory of Turkey and Iraq over 40 years or by who killed tens of thousands of civilians without separationor by who international drug smuggler gangs. Come to yourself, what you're defending now is a terrorist organization. Today, you are the advocate of a state that comes from 12,000 kilometers away and what Israel has decided. And with great prejudice. This is an unconscious policy that ruins all such balances here and it decides to destroy everything else.

Until the year 2011, there was a peace process In Turkey . The state showed great common sense against the PKK. We've made our goodwill. So what did we get in return? Powered by the US, and also armed PKK by US, which has used this power to occupy cities in Turkey. Even now, do you know that mortars fall every day in our border areas? Once you have shared our pain? But now you judging us now?

Look, the BBC, came to border areas after operation start. Its purpose is make news that the Kurdish rebellion in Turkey. But what did he see?

Anyway, I clearly see that you know these things. You know as a Pakistani. And I see very well what you want to do.

Anyone who has tampered with some message history of you, they can see how different perspective when issues comes to your homeland. This operation will be over soon. And We'il be able to spend more time here. Then we start judging your contries policies and understandings.

Can you show me prove that Kurdish rebel has killed 10.000 civilians ? Can you just show me any link in English (international media) about any recent bombing those Kurds rebel done in Turkey ?

Is there any war happen between Kurdish rebel and Turkish military inside Turkey? How big is the scale ?

 

[MMM-E]

Again, your entire focus is on political statements instead of kurd demographics in Syria. I won't waste my time on you further.

the US backed PKK/YPG Terrorists invaded Arab cities including Munbij , Telabyad , Rasulayn , Raqqa ,Deir al Zour , etc (30% of Syrian territory ) under the mask of fighting ISIS

Munbij , Telabyad , Rasulayn , Raqqa ,Deir al Zour , etc are not Kurdish cities


and I am saying again
Do you think all Kurds support PKK/YPG Terrorists ? never
most of muslim Kurds so hate communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists , therefore communist-atheist PKK/YPG Terrorists forced hundreds of thousands of muslim Kurds to move Turkey and Iraq from their lands in Syria

also in Turkey most of Kurds vote for AKP , CHP and MHP instead of HDP ( pro-PKK )


so stop calling all Kurds as PKK/YPG Terrorist supporter
Kurdish FALCONS Brigade (400 Kurdish and 200 Arab Fighters ) was formed as part of the Hamza Division of FSA to fight PKK/YPG

 

[dBSPL]

Turkey has a reasonable demand for a full 5 years. Protecting the territorial integrity of Syria, a new constitution and a free election of all Syrians.

You call us an invader today. But

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184405756541583360

Those who want to see a smashed Syria in EU will find more than 1 million Syrians at their borders in less than a year. That's not the point I'm paying attention to.

However, it is a very important learning process for us that the people we think that we agree on the integrity of Syria , and now they attack us as a union with the Atlantic camp. Right now we clearly see who our friend is and who our enemy is. And in fact, this was the biggest gain for us. We do not see this struggle as a few weeks or a few years. If anyone briefly looking at the history of Turkey , can understandt it well enough.