Officially becoming a secular liberal person

[Chronos]

i don't have time to explain. maybe another time.

It's not like if you madea monumental error.

You are still a Muslim and just like Islam wants you to be, a good human being

 

[janon]

Exactly, Like I said what you feel is your decision alone...However if you wish to share that is fine (Like you did on this thread) ...

However if you (Mullah atheist) go the extra mile of bashing or forcefully convincing...then how different are you from the other side of the spectrum (Mullah)

Damn people actually memorized your signature! Dude you're influential!

Don't flatter him for that, that is because of my photographic memory. I often astonish people by repeating their own words verbatim years later. On this forum or in life, I remember every conversation I had with anybody. Like the venerable Indian elephant, I never forget anything.

I'll demonstrate that - the first interaction I had with you was when you berated me for a remark of mine, to which I responded that I had already apologized for the same to jonasad. The second was when I called you out for citing a scientific paper from the 70s about homosexuality, and pointing out that they themselves had changed their stance later. The third...

You get the point.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Mr when kufr is clear sorry to say we have to Judge even in Quran ALLAH says follow ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW and your leader but if your leader decides against Quran and Sunnah return to Quran and Sunnah and that is what 4 caliphs said follow us as long as we follow Quran Sunnah if we don't follow Quran and Sunnah don't follow us

Piaray bhai, these are different times. So, though I agree with you in principle, I can not agree with the way forward by trying to shame someone. @qamar1990 is a decent poster and you can certainly engage him in a very civil and frank manner. I am sure he would not mind that at all.

You are quoting Iqbal. I wish you would read his Allahabad lectures as well. Your view might be a bit more consistent. See the problem is not so much in the principles, but in details of formulating a policy and its enforcement. Empty slogans create problems, not actually give solutions.

 

[Spring Onion]

@Spring Onion there is always a time in a person's life when they are exploring and rediscovering heck I went to the other extreme of being a Mullah

lolzzzz. (what was your earlier user name?) and i hang in the middle

 

[Dubious]

Don't flatter him for that, that is because of my photographic memory. I often astonish people by repeating their own words verbatim years later. On this forum or in life, I remember every conversation I had with anybody. Like the venerable Indian elephant, I never forget anything.

I'll demonstrate that - the first interaction I had with you was when you berated me for a remark of mine, to which I responded that I had already apologized for the same to jonasad. The second was when I called you out for citing a scientific paper from the 70s about homosexuality, and pointing out that they themselves had changed their stance later. The third...

You get the point.

Ohh that was you!! I had not finished rattling you!

lolzzzz. (what was your earlier user name?) and i hang in the middle

Ask one of the mods

 

[Spring Onion]

Unfortunately he has been corrupted by the West. They seperate religion from public affairs i am afraid.

HOW?? by asking Muslims not to wear scarfs at workplace ? their version of separating state from religion is absurd itself and born out of extreme view about other faith

 

[Zarvan]

i don't read urdu quite well you going to have to translate it for me

Without deen Politics is another version of Chagaiz Khan that is what great Iqbal said

 

[Spring Onion]

Despite many shortcomings, India is still a country where not only all the sects of Islam can practice their faiths freely(which is not even possible in Islamic theocratic countries) but people of all communities can do theirs. India is still a SECULAR country not because of its minorities but because of the majority Hindus want it to be like this. Insecurities do not prevent us from allowing people from minority communities to be Presidents, PMs, Army Chiefs, Chief Justice of India etc.

distorting Islam is favourit hobby of Indian Hindu majority so indeed you will allow even fake prophets if anyone claims even today. this is NOT secularism.

as far as ceremonial posts are concerned it has nothing to do with secularism but a facepalm Indian applies to act like "secular"

 

[Dubious]

@Spring Onion @Zarvan @qamar1990

Let us understand 1 thing ...current state of Pakistan is far from purity of Islam...we have more corrupt then good people, we have a big difference between the rich and poor (which is far from Islam's requirement) we have people without basic needs, we have violence against other religion and women (far from what Islam preaches) so if someone wants to disconnect themselves from this doesnt mean they are bad but they realize it isnt right and for sure it isnt coz it isnt even Islam to begin with!

 

[Chronos]

HOW?? by asking Muslims not to wear scarfs at workplace ? their version of separating state from religion is absurd itself and born out of extreme view about other faith

Muslims are still afforded the right to worship, Hindus are, Buddhists are, Even pagans are.

The West is by no means perfect, they have huge faults of themselves too. But through their secular outlook they have built themselves a society the majority of Pakistanis and indians want to live in.

This is not to condone the extremist side.

But when you take into account Hindutva groups, Islamist outfits, the West comes off as better.

@qamar1990 is still a Muslim, he just has a different opinion about what role religion should play in society.

Just as I believe religion should be confined to people's private lives. Spirituality and religion should be personal quests for the truth.

 

[qamar1990]

HOW?? by asking Muslims not to wear scarfs at workplace ? their version of separating state from religion is absurd itself and born out of extreme view about other faith

by asking people not wear scarfs is violation of human rights. it has nothing to do with secularism.

 

[EyanKhan]

@Spring Onion @Zarvan @qamar1990

Let us understand 1 thing ...current state of Pakistan is far from purity of Islam...we have more corrupt then good people, we have a big difference between the rich and poor (which is far from Islam's requirement) we have people without basic needs, we have violence against other religion and women (far from what Islam preaches) so if someone wants to disconnect themselves from this doesnt mean they are bad but they realize it isnt right and for sure it isnt coz it isnt even Islam to begin with!

Exactly it isn't Islam to begin with .
Because in this world corrupt and power hungry people will to continue to exist , that is reality and they will use any means possible to justify their cause including religion , they will never spare it and in doing so they won't even stop at corrupting their own religion . That is the primary reason not to mix religion with politics because power corrupts.By Bringing religion into politics you risk corrupting your religion to extremes the kind we see in Pakistan today .

 

[Spring Onion]

by asking people not wear scarfs is violation of human rights. it has nothing to do with secularism.

Human rights are supposed to be protected under "SECULARISM" if it has NOTHING do with religion then why discriminate them on basis of religion ?

 

[EyanKhan]

@Spring Onion how is secularism the other extreme ? Care to explain if you don't mind?

 

[qamar1990]

Muslims are still afforded the right to worship, Hindus are, Buddhists are, Even pagans are.

The West is by no means perfect, they have huge faults of themselves too. But through their secular outlook they have built themselves a society the majority of Pakistanis and indians want to live in.

This is not to condone the extremist side.

But when you take into account Hindutva groups, Islamist outfits, the West comes off as better.

@qamar1990 is still a Muslim, he just has a different opinion about what role religion should play in society.

Just as I believe religion should be confined to people's private lives. Spirituality and religion should be personal quests for the truth.

i agree with you 100 percent bro.
for simply stating I'm not a secular person i got attacked.
it is that mentality that actually pushed me away from these people.
without even hearing what secularism is to me they started calling me kufr.
with that mentality pakistan is done and over with.