Officially becoming a secular liberal person

[qamar1990]

Habit of some Mullah atheist...like Mullahs try to make you extra religious mullah atheist try the extra mile to make people accept their concept so they can feel better about themselves...

Real atheist I respect coz they do no such things!

i hate mullah athiests lol.
like wtf if you don't want to believe in god thats fine but don't go around attacking other religions for no reason ect lol

 

[Truth Finder]

i read all this stuff bro lolwhat you trying to make me a atheist? lol

1) Borrowing someone's line, I 'd say "People made God. God made religion. But, religion then devoured both God and People." It's as simple as that.

2) Secularism does not mean the negation of religion, but it means acceptance of all religions as equal.

BTW, do not use "lol" mindlessly.

 

[qamar1990]

Somebody let the @WebMaster know that qamar's account has been hacked.

no its still me lol

(Didn't you have a signature a short while back saying that 'secular fascists and liberals are the greatest threat to your country and way of life', or something like that?)

yeah lol, well you know shit happens man.
i just don't to be enforcing what i believe on others. people should be able to live how they want. liberal, secular whatever they want.

Anyway, like @forcetrip I too would like to know the reasons behind the change. A person changing his entire worldview doesn't happen too often. The willingness to change your beliefs and convictions is a good quality, and shows strength of character. (Although some people mistakenly believe that it is weakness to change your beliefs.)

ill explain another day.

 

[Dubious]

i hate mullah athiests lol.
like wtf if you don't want to believe in god thats fine but don't go around attacking other religions for no reason ect lol

Exactly, Like I said what you feel is your decision alone...However if you wish to share that is fine (Like you did on this thread) ...

However if you (Mullah atheist) go the extra mile of bashing or forcefully convincing...then how different are you from the other side of the spectrum (Mullah)

Damn people actually memorized your signature! Dude you're influential!

 

[qamar1990]

1) Borrowing someone's line, I 'd say "People made God. God made religion. But, religion then devoured both God and People." It's as simple as that.

2) Secularism does not mean the negation of religion, but it means acceptance of all religions as equal.

BTW, do not use "lol" mindlessly.

secularism to me means that i accept all religions and respect their rights but it doesn't mean i can't say that they are wrong.
i still believe other religions are wrong and islam is correct. but i will not be forcing islam onto u or mixing it with politics or not letting other religions be practiced freely.

Exactly, Like I said what you feel is your decision alone...However if you wish to share that is fine (Like you did on this thread) ...

However if you (Mullah atheist) go the extra mile of bashing or forcefully convincing...then how different are you from the other side of the spectrum (Mullah)

Damn people actually memorized your signature! Dude your influential!

yeah i guess i am lmao.

 

[Chak Bamu]

1. There is nothing wrong with practical secularism. An example is the Mughal rule in India. They were not interested in converting Hindus to Islam. They just wanted to govern and expand their empire. Their civil service and army was multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-religious, and bureaucrats were often posted away from their provinces of origin. Muslims and Islam had a pre-eminent status, but rights of others were protected. Sikhs were an exception, since they were essentially viewed as anti-establishment, anti-imperialists, etc...

In any case, I am talking about imperial policy. This policy was known to the local and low-level functionaries and they made reference to it in their decision making. I am not saying that the decision making was always consistent, but that the state policy ensured that there was no social / religious disturbance.

The cause of Islam was taken up not by Mullahs, but Sufis. The vast majority of conversions took place because of their influence and practice that was humanist in accordance with Islamic and Prophetic principles.

2. @qamar1990, if you read Urdu well enough (I assume you do), try to read Ata-Ul-Haq Qasmi. He has not penned anything particularly cerebral / intellectual - even though he is a genius. But he often makes references to practical secularism as a way forward. This makes sense in abundance.

3. We can not declare Pakistan as a secular state. That would dent Pakistani identity to the extent that there would be no reason to continue as a nation. We already have no particular geographical feature to separate us on geographical basis. Just look at Western and Eastern borders. We are slowly evolving a Pakistani identity, but though it matters much, it does not yet matter enough to sustain itself on its own.

4. Politics of religious parties is just plain dumb. They have very little traction and are so fragmented that nobody much cares for them apart from those who happen to directly benefit from them. The only two parties of note are JI, and JUI-F.

JI works as the party of rightist fringe / extreme. This position would always be taken up by someone and I see value in them being there because they take away space from extreme nationalists, who would be clueless.

JUI-F is more pragmatic, being a reflection of Maulana Fazlur-Rehman's personality. I would not comment on this party apart from noting that they are foremost banner-carriers of Deobandi school.

In my view, at an appropriate time, religion-based parties should be scaled back by banning sectarian parties, allowing JI to be left. They can be forced to reform by throttling Jamiat (their Student chapter). An escape / pressure-release system ought to be in place so that Islamists do not actually turn outright militants for lack of political space.

5. The government ought to be more forceful in dealing with sectarian-cum-religious inspired violence. For that to be effective, we need to finish off role of security apparatus in politics. This point alone could generate a book by itself. Allow me to say that this is the focal point of instability in Pakistan. I could write more but that would generate too much debate.

6. It takes courage, and though I do not agree with you I would nonetheless congratulate you on your intellectual journey. I have an inkling that over time and with more study you would have a much more refined outlook than most on this forum.

@Zarvan , careful brother, you are too quick to judge. These times and this age do not permit hasty judgements. This is not how you take forward the cause of Islam. This is how you scare people away from Islam. Do think how many people were ever brought to Islam by Mullahs? Now do think how many people converted by Sufi influence?

Zarvan, my young friend, allow me to related a true story. Perhaps two decades ago, I happened to watch an interview of Mir Hamza Khan Shinwari, the celebrated Pushto poet on PTV. He said that in his youth he had turned atheist, but he had some respect for a Sufi teacher. Over some years, he was convinced and brought back to Islam. He was perhaps still a free-thinker, but he died a Muslim and thus was saved.

I would like to think that I perhaps had a similar influence over a close friend who had turned agnostic, but slowly came back.

I would like to end with a quote from that incomparable writer, Ibn-e-Insha who wrote in his iconic book - Urdu ki Akhri Kitab - in lesson of geometry that: "There is a type of circle, called circle of Islam. It used to be that people were brought in it, now people are pushed out of it"

 

[RazpaktheChaudhrySaaB]

omg. you retards. this is chaudhry raza ali abdul waheed. the real Razpak.

@qamar1990 your are a lost soul. I will defend my religion Islam to my death. It is far superior to the partial secularism practiced in the west.

@rajphoot indian loosey, know your place salay of akhbar.

 

[Cherokee]

3. i say both Conservative Extremists and Secular Extremists both are a threat to humanity.

Secular extremists will throw book at you , Conservatives bomb . Hence conservatives are the bigger threat

 

[Zarvan]

islam has politics but people like you can't seem to decide what sharia is!
what is sharia?
nobody knows because everybody has their own definition.
if being secular makes me a kafir ill take my chances.
I'm pretty sure that allah will not send me to hell for simply not forcing islam onto other people living in pakistan, and advocating for the right of people to choose how they want to live their life instead of being forced to fast during ramadan ect.

when you mix religion with politics the result will end being bad.

Mr Shariah is clear Mr and 90 % things among all sects are same Mr and yes ALLAH will send to hell because those who don't try to implement Islam and don't decide according to what ALLAH has reveled ALLAH has declared them kafirs in the Quran Mr even in Quran ALLAH tells Muslim follow their leader as long as he decides according to Quran and Sunnah if he don't don't follow him and you want secularism Mr either you are with ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW or you are against them weather in form of secularism or any other kufr so think again on day of judgement you want to stand against RASOOL SAW or with him think Mr think and if we don't mix Islam with politics its kufr than @qamar1990

 

[Luftwaffe]

what happened to real RazPAk?

He wokeup and fell on the other.side of the charpai today got a temporary concussion.

 

[Truth Finder]

i still believe other religions are wrong and islam is correct.

This is exactly known as communalism, a blind belief without any basis. You are far from being a secular and stop this drama.There goes a famous line, " A Muslim can not be secular."

 

[Spring Onion]

This is exactly known as communalism, a blind belief without any basis. You are far from being a secular and stop this drama.There goes a famous line, " A Muslim can not be secular."

famous line by ? Hindus?

ehhh as if Hindus can be secular.
wake up

 

[qamar1990]

This is exactly known as communalism, a blind belief without any basis. You are far from being a secular and stop this drama.There goes a famous line, " A Muslim can not be secular."

ok bro lol

 

[Zarvan]

1. There is nothing wrong with practical secularism. An example is the Mughal rule in India. They were not interested in converting Hindus to Islam. They just wanted to govern and expand their empire. Their civil service and army was multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, multi-religious, and bureaucrats were often posted away from their provinces of origin. Muslims and Islam had a pre-eminent status, but rights of others were protected. Sikhs were an exception, since they were essentially viewed as anti-establishment, anti-imperialists, etc...

In any case, I am talking about imperial policy. This policy was known to the local and low-level functionaries and they made reference to it in their decision making. I am not saying that the decision making was always consistent, but that the state policy ensured that there was no social / religious disturbance.

The cause of Islam was taken up not by Mullahs, but Sufis. The vast majority of conversions took place because of their influence and practice that was humanist in accordance with Islamic and prophetic principles.

2. @qamar1990, if you read Urdu well enough (I assume you do), try to read Ata-Ul-Haq Qasmi. He has not penned anything particularly cerebral / intellectual - even though he is a genius. But he often makes references to practical secularism as a way forward. This makes sense in abundance.

3. We can not declare Pakistan as a secular state. That would dent Pakistani identity to the extent that there would be no reason to continue as a nation. We already have no particular geographical feature to separate us on geographical basis. Just look at Western and Eastern borders. We are slowly evolving a Pakistani identity, but though it matter much, it does not yet matter enough to sustain itself on its own.

4. Politics of religious parties is just plain dumb. They have very little traction and are so fragmented that nobody much cares for them apart from those who happen to directly benefit from them. The only two parties of note are JI, and JUI-F.

JI works as the party of rightist fringe / extreme. This position would always be taken up by someone and I see value in them being there because they take away space from extreme nationalists, who would be clueless.

JUI-F is more pragmatic, being a reflection of Maulana Fazlur-Rehman's personality. I would not comment on this party apart from noting that they are foremost banner-carriers of Deobandi school.

In my view, at an appropriate time, religion-based parties should be scaled back by banning sectarian parties, allowing JI to be left. They can be forced to reform by throttling Jamiat (their Student chapter). An escape / pressure-release system ought to be in place so that Islamists do not actually turn outright militants for lack of political space.

5. The government ought to be more forceful in dealing with sectarian-cum-religious inspired violence. For that to be effective, we need to finish off role of security apparatus in politics. This point alone could generate a book by itself. Allow me to say that this is the focal point of instability in Pakistan. I could write more but that would generate too much debate.

6. It takes courage, and though I do not agree with you I would nonetheless congratulate you on your intellectual journey. I have an inkling that over time and with more study you would have a much more refined outlook than most on this forum.

@Zarvan , careful brother, you are too quick to judge. These times and this age do not permit hasty judgements. This is not how you take forward the cause of Islam. This is how you scare people away from Islam. Do think how many people were ever brought to Islam by Mullahs? Now do think how many people converted by Sufi influence?

Zarvan, my young friend, allow me to related a true story. Perhaps two decades ago, I happened to watch an interview of Mir Hamza Khan Shinwari, the celebrated Pushto poet on PTV. He said that in his youth he had turned atheist, but he had some respect for a Sufi teacher. Over some years, he was convinced and brought back to Islam. He was perhaps still a free-thinker, but he died a Muslim and thus was saved.

I would like to think that I perhaps had a similar influence over a close friend who had turned agnostic, but slowly came back.

I would like to end with a quote from that incomparable writer, Ibn-e-Insha who wrote in his iconic book - Urdu ki Akhri Kitab - in lesson of geometry that: "There is a type of circle, called circle of Islam. It used to be that people were brought in it, now people are pushed out of it"

Mr when kufr is clear sorry to say we have to Judge even in Quran ALLAH says follow ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW and your leader but if your leader decides against Quran and Sunnah return to Quran and Sunnah and that is what 4 caliphs said follow us as long as we follow Quran Sunnah if we don't follow Quran and Sunnah don't follow us

ok bro lol

 

[qamar1990]

Mr when kufr is clear sorry to say we have to Judge even in Quran ALLAH says follow ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW and your leader but if your leader decides against Quran and Sunnah return to Quran and Sunnah and that is what 4 caliphs said follow us as long as we follow Quran Sunnah if we don't follow Quran and Sunnah don't follow us

i don't read urdu quite well you going to have to translate it for me