Obsessed with NASR

[Levina]

I disagree on that. India tested sub-kiloton warheads in 1999. Something which people claimed as 'dud' tests.

Apples and oranges!
If somebody called it a dud test then it reflects their stupidity.
Indian corps of engineers had to work very hard to keep the activity at Pokhran a secret. Hats off to everyone involved in the programme, it was difficult for others to believe that India could carry out the tests.

How will CEP be beneficial for an opponent?

I want to answer this part of your question, coz it looks like a dig at my post.
CEP as we know it gives the accuracy of a missile. So if i say a missile has a CEP of 10 km then it means the missile50/50 chance of landing within 10km of its target. Targeting smaller cities or even complexes is next to impossible with this accuracy.
Now another important thing to remember about NASR is

Any guess as to why multiple missiles would be needed?
The answer is simple, lack in accuracy is compensated by firing several missiles in succession.
So there you go!
This was the reason why i asked CEP of NASR.

BTW CEP of @hellfire is 4m, very accurate.

 

[Hellfire]

I was hinting If you meant that specific 0.2 Kt device when taking of "dud" because many people termed even the main TN warhead the 50kt one dud-

Nope. There was no dud. All were in sub-kiloton yields. plus one boosted fission device. Smallest was 155 mm cal.

 

[ebrahym]

The best Pakistan can have is a Plutonium based fission weapon- Which will be an up-gradation over AQ Khan's HEU based warheads- also Pakistan tested a 12Kt Plutonium device in a separate testing site- And It was meant to mounted on Shaheen series missiles so I can only assume the possibility of a Plutonium based device- Neutron bomb is something which the USAs and Soviets of the world can afford and have the expertise to make- I doubt even China having such weapon- Not that they cannot make It in near future- But then why would they-

exactly

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

Nope. There was no dud. All were in sub-kiloton yields. plus one boosted fission device. Smallest was 155 mm cal.

The 1st which caused earthquake was a TN device(mini version of possible 200kt weapon) 50kt- yield estimated 45kt and fusion was confirmed later after analyzing the sand in the area- I didn't know about 155mm device- Thanks for letting me know-

 

[Hellfire]

Apples and oranges!
If somebody called it a dud test then it reflects their stupidity.
Indian corps of engineers had to work very hard to keep the activity at Pokhran a secret. Hats off to everyone involved in the programme, it was difficult for others to believe that India could carry out the tests.

Yup. Know that. I came to know 3 days prior to it. Friday I had leaked it all over Mhow. tell a truth to people blatantly, no one believes it.

I want to answer this part of your question, coz it looks like a dig at my post.

Nope. Wrong. Read the contention of CEP being secret by the quoted poster ... why would I seek trouble from you?

Thanks for the CEP lessons. Your effort is appreciated. And no, NASR CEP I am not concerned with as their first use policy renders use of missile a risky option for them.

My appreciation of Pakistanis using a nuke in tactical scenario is accurate as they will do so with an imminent loss of a node in their side which may threaten their axes of supply and replenishment. I do not envisage any strike on any Indian columns before 30 kms in Sindh and in 3 kms in Punjab. 3 kms as we will hit the first of the three canal crossings and get bogged down there.

My interest comes when Pakistanis claim they will use them .. I wonder what kind of fools they think their military commanders are! That is all.

BTW CEP of @hellfire is 4m, very accurate.

Didn't get this.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

Didn't get this.

hellfire the US ATGM-

 

[Hellfire]

The 1st which caused earthquake was a TN device(mini version of possible 200kt weapon) 50kt- yield estimated 45kt and fusion was confirmed later after analyzing the sand in the area- I didn't know about 155mm device- Thanks for letting me know-

You are telling me what was analysed. Nice.

there are lot of things which are not known .. so lets leave it at that.

And it was 7 not 5 - the figure of tested devices.

hellfire the US ATGM-

It ain't that.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

You are telling me what was analysed. Nice.

there are lot of things which are not known .. so lets leave it at that.

And it was 7 not 5 - the figure of tested devices.



It ain't that.

My source is open source so yes- If you know more please do tell- I have heard they have been planning a new device for SLBM something like the Americans use how true is that ?- If It doesn't disclose any classified info-

 

[Hellfire]

My source is open source so yes- If you know more please do tell- I have heard they have been planning a new device for SLBM something like the Americans use how true is that ?- If It doesn't disclose any classified info-

I indicated test of K-4 last May. Off Car Nic.

That's all for now. And FYI - all is open sourced.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

I indicated test of K-4 last May. Off Car Nic.

That's all for now. And FYI - all is open sourced.

I will look into It-

 

[Levina]

I came to know 3 days prior to it. Friday I had leaked it all over Mhow. tell a truth to people blatantly, no one believes it.

Hm?
What were you doing in Mhow? Any course?

Thanks for the CEP lessons. Your effort is appreciated

My physics is kinda...good. So yeah, I think I can explain such things to laymen ( ).
Hehe
Thanks!

I do not envisage any strike on any Indian columns before 30 kms in Sindh and in 3 kms in Punjab. 3 kms as we will hit the first of the three canal crossings and get bogged down there.

You know there are 2 scenarios
1. NASR will NOT be used by Pakistanis at all. I mean come on, their high command knows the repurcussions of using a tac nuke specially since India doesn't believe in "low yield battlefield deterrents.
In short, India's response would prevent Pakistanis from using Nasr.

2. NASR is used, but India doesn't respond with a nuke. Like a typical elder sibling, India decides to spare the civilian population and doesn't use nuclear weapon on them. So while India has the capability to give a befitting reply, it refrains from causing a large scale destruction.
Don't tell me this can not happen.
After we let their (90k ?)soldiers walk back home, anything is possible.

Didn't get this

I was talking about American made HELLFIRE (ur name I guess is derived from the missile).
It has a CEP of 4m.

hellfire the US ATGM-

You're right.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

You're right.

Civilian mind-

 

[Hellfire]

You know there are 2 scenarios
1. NASR will NOT be used by Pakistanis at all. I mean come on, their high command knows the repurcussions of using a tac nuke specially since India doesn't believe in "low yield battlefield deterrents.
In short, India's response would prevent Pakistanis from using Nasr.

2. NASR is used, but India doesn't respond with a nuke. Like a typical elder sibling, India decides to spare the civilian population and doesn't use nuclear weapon on them. So while India has the capability to give a befitting reply, it refrains from causing a large scale destruction.

Point 1 Agreed

Point 2 Agreed. Underlined portion is not the reason again since you have gone into domain of counter-value. Targeting of any nuclear strike will always be done to keep the political options of negotiations open. This will be escalatory. Nasr's potential use, or for that use any strike by Pakistan will be counter-force, within its own territory and when it is on the verge of loosing a significant node. My assessment stands not less than 30 kms ingress into Sindh and 3-5 kms in Punjab before they get panicky.

Don't tell me this can not happen.
After we let their (90k ?)soldiers walk back home, anything is possible.

It can happen, I said as much and a whole thread was started on my statement!!!!

https://defence.pk/threads/use-of-nasr-and-retaliation-by-india-if-any.442942/page-12

But not for the reason you have stated above. Indian pre-emptive strike is also a very high probability at potential launch sites/forces. Who knows what will happen!

I was talking about American made HELLFIRE (ur name I guess is derived from the missile).
It has a CEP of 4m.

Nope. Am not an ATGM. @Eminent Mainstream Media pointed it out. I thought you were more of having fun at my expense


Don't worry, my physics is more than 'satisfactory' ; you wont have to bother explaining again. Your effort at making me revise CEP was appreciated totally on that base! You took the effort, it's rude to say 'I know that'

 

[Levina]

Indian pre-emptive strike is also a very high probability at potential launch sites/forces. Who knows what will happen!

Had India been China, I would have agreed to this ^ statement. I meant, India is known for its defensive actions and not the offensive ones.

Targeting of any nuclear strike will always be done to keep the political options of negotiations open. This will be escalatory.

Hmm. True that.
We hit their 2nd biggest city first, and then negotiate. If the negotiations fail, we hit their biggest city.

You took the effort, it's rude to say 'I know that'

Haha
I'm such a show-off.
I don't doubt your knowledge, that was just a joke.

 

[Hellfire]

Had India been China, I would have agreed to this ^ statement. I meant, India is known for its defensive actions and not the offensive ones.

Will it suffice to say that let us assume it? I can't prove it otherwise..... as am not Modi, Parrikar and COAS!!! As for the bold, the unfortunate fact of life is that Indians rarely show themselves as the aggressors. 1962 was ours .. all the way!! And look how we fared.

Hmm. True that.
We hit their 2nd biggest city first, and then negotiate. If the negotiations fail, we hit their biggest city.

No, we don't. Shall give you a small example - they target Bahadurgarh, we target Sialkot.

The considerations for a counter-value strike will be to inflict damage proportional to that sustained, to target military-industrial complex, to ensure topography such that minimal effects achieved as desired.

If you look at the topography of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki as also their population size, they were in a bowl shaped relief surrounded by hills around them .. and open sea. That limited the fallout due to physical aspects ... of course lot depends on weather, winds etc.

Just my assessment.

Haha
I'm such a show-off.
I don't doubt your knowledge, that was just a joke.

Nope. I sincerely meant what I said. At times, one needs to revise and one needs to clarify. Worked here as per me.

Cheers.