Obama warns China

[Faiez]

Of course any sanctions against any nation will impact on that country but China is just too integral and vital to most countries for them to be flippantly disregarded by any nation, including the USA. Any smaller nation partaking in any sanctions will equally or be more affected by the sanctions than China would.

As India has shown, it's not just about having cheap plentiful labour that has made China the manufacturing powerhouse that it is. India has failed to replicate, even in small measure, what China has achieved because it has clumsy and inefficient governance, poor manufacturing and domestic infrastructure and the lack of logistics know-how to compete with China. China has built this up over the course of decades. There is no country or even group of nations currently able to take the slack should they forcibly block China as a trading nation. Not to mention that most countries are increasingly dependent on China as a market for their goods, in addition to heavily relying on them for cheap goods that keep inflation low, and parts supplies for goods they make, and also being a major source of credit for most nations. You think countries are gonna easily risk jeopardising that to help Vietnam and Philippines to settle territorial disputes?

Stop believing the repeated drivel and mantras spewed from Western media sources.

Sanctions on China by USA/EU will most likely be welcomed by many many countries that are already competing against china in consumer goods export to USA/EU.

As far as India is concerned, that's India's failures...not all nations are the same....Malaysia, Indonesia, etc are really good. And there's many other countries not just in Asia but in Africa as well that would take sanctions on China as a huge opportunity...The fact that sanctions cannot be placed on China so easily due to US politics is a separate matter....I'm just discussing how successful they would be if they put them....

 

[seven7seven]

Sanctions on China by USA/EU will most likely be welcomed by many many countries that are already competing against china in consumer goods export to USA/EU.

As far as India is concerned, that's India's failures...not all nations are the same....Malaysia, Indonesia, etc are really good. And there's many other countries not just in Asia but in Africa as well that would take sanctions on China as a huge opportunity...The fact that sanctions cannot be placed on China so easily due to US politics is a separate matter....I'm just discussing how successful they would be if they put them....

How successful sanctions would be is of course related to how much negative consequences that would come to the sanctioning countries, as well as the benefits and opportunities that would come with sanctioning China. Do you think China will sit idly by and allow any nation who partake in economic actions against them without handing out retaliatory actions of their own? Should China wield their own economic sword, it is significantly bigger than anybody else's, the USA included. Do you think multinational corporations like disruption and having to relocate to untested locations? Even though operating costs are rising in China for these companies, many choose to stay because China have the right infrastructure and business environment to prosper and grow. The Chinese domestic market is more valuable to many companies than even the US one and the potential ceiling far exceeding the latter. If you think there are other Chinas out there that are growing like on trees, then you are very naive and uninformed.

 

[Beast]

Sanctions on China by USA/EU will most likely be welcomed by many many countries that are already competing against china in consumer goods export to USA/EU.

As far as India is concerned, that's India's failures...not all nations are the same....Malaysia, Indonesia, etc are really good. And there's many other countries not just in Asia but in Africa as well that would take sanctions on China as a huge opportunity...The fact that sanctions cannot be placed on China so easily due to US politics is a separate matter....I'm just discussing how successful they would be if they put them....

Sanction against China

Let me give you one example. Iphone is rise by 100% cost. Does that send a chill to any investor?

Mind you that is one out of thousands of product China sells. You want to play sanction. Feel free. China can afford to play the game but not every countries are as rich as China with 4 trillion forex reserve.

 

[meanderer]

unfortunately there is no absolute 'justice' in the international society.

the international order is first about balancing major powers, simply because otherwise the order itself will fall apart and nuclear war will destroy all of us.

so, calling for help is no use when it comes to major powers. did US help Georgia out? and things in Ukraine are not getting much better.

if Vietnam wants to have a say, the only realistic approach is to become a more developed country. like said before, stop whining like a baby.

 

[William Hung]

You have just demonstrated who is the real bully in SCS when China owned so little possession. How can a bully have little possession in SCS? Thanks for pointing out.

This perfectly demonstrate your Ah Q mentality. You first claim how China have been taking actions and controlling the SCS, then I posted the map to show how China is hardly controlling anything compared to the other guys. Then you, in true Ah Q spirit, change the topic and reason with yourself how the map show VietNam is a bully, therefore China wins!! Have you forgotten your first claim that China was taking concrete actions and is in control? Yet now, China is a bullied victim?

The sign of an Ah Q is to rationalize any random thoughts in order to paint yourself as a victor.

Ah Q spirit is for who brag but with no strength. But China has strength, so it not bragging but telling the truth.

View attachment 213835

Who said anything about bragging? If anything, I see the PRC itself doing little bragging.

Ah Q spiritual victory is about rationalizing in your head and coming up with an imaginary victory out of thin air.

Recall the oil rig incident. For some reason, China decided to plant an oil rig in the SCS and declared that it will stay there for 3 months. It then face physical resistance from VietNam and diplomatic objection from the US. Then China decided to pull back one month earlier than it first declared. Then some Ah Q Chinese declared that it was a victory, when I don't even know what the oil rig have achieved other than giving China some bad PR. One Chinese guy even told me China only withdrew early because it wants to save face for Viet Nam. Isn't that so Ah Q or not???

You never heard of these news? You think I am bragging?

Chinese agent, ex-Taiwan general in spy case - The China Post

Off course every country has spies.

Dude, Taiwan has been a "renegade province" for what, 70 years now? All this time, re-unification has not been achieved. And various surveys show that less and less Taiwanese want re-unification. But you can just keep entertaining yourself with those thoughts on how China is winning.

 

[meanderer]

economic sanctioning of China is not an option, at least for now.

it'll hurt US economy since the two economies are so intertwined. and it'll hurt many other countries too (e.g. commodity exporting countries). growth of the world will be greatly affected, since China contributes most to the growth now.

will sanctioning hurt China? yes, but limited. China has been through sanctions before.

 

[Beast]

This perfectly demonstrate your Ah Q mentality. You first claim how China have been taking actions and controlling the SCS, then I posted the map to show how China is hardly controlling anything compared to the other guys. Then you, in true Ah Q spirit, change the topic and reason with yourself how the map show VietNam is a bully, therefore China wins!! Have you forgotten your first claim that China was taking concrete actions and is in control? Yet now, China is a bullied victim?

First of all its you who post the picture and brag how weak China is in SCS and when exposed China dont even looks like an aggressor by your own foolishness, you change topic? So who is real bully? Bully with less possession?

The sign of an Ah Q is to rationalize any random thoughts in order to paint yourself as a victor.

Precisely of what you are doing here

Ah Q spiritual victory is about rationalizing in your head and coming up with an imaginary victory out of thin air.

It seems the vietnamese claiming of victory over China has not draw any criticism or any of your ah Q spirit despite demonstrated of achieving none over China? Are you vietnamese?

Recall the oil rig incident. For some reason, China decided to plant an oil rig in the SCS and declared that it will stay there for 3 months. It then face physical resistance from VietNam and diplomatic objection from the US. Then China decided to pull back one month earlier than it first declared. Then some Ah Q Chinese declared that it was a victory, when I don't even know what the oil rig have achieved other than giving China some bad PR. One Chinese guy even told me China had to withdrew early because it wants to save face for Viet Nam. Isn't that so Ah Q or not???

Are you ignoring the fact that China has never stop any construction of facilities on their Spratly island despite vietnamese bragging of immediate action against CHina or even American threat of warning? Who is loud whinner and who is the real man who take action? And who is the real Ah Q?

Off course every country has spies.

Dude, Taiwan has been a "renegade province" for what, 70 years now? All this time, re-unification has not been achieved. And various surveys show that less and less Taiwanese want re-unification. But you can just keep entertaining yourself with those thoughts on how China is winning.

We are not talking about renegade of Taiwan , are we? In the first place, you claim doubt of my post and even claim ah Q spirit. Have you ever think why US has not sell many advance weapons to ROC for many decades. US can piss off China by selling many advance weapons to ROC but they are not doing it. Becos the China spies ring in ROC is real and very extensive and I am not BullSh*ting. Most weapon in ROC hands will end up know by PRC. My link proves that.

 

[William Hung]

I think you're exaggerating the PR issue. This was never going to be theater in which we could play to our strengths, because of US grip over global media. Vietnam could launch a full-scale invasion of the Paracels tomorrow, and the US media would still somehow be spinning it as "Chinese elbowing". Anyway, it's not true that we've been completely and successfully smeared and libeled by the US as an aggressive bully. The reality is most of the world doesn't know about this dispute and doesn't care. It certainly doesn't attract as much attention as ISIS or Ukraine. Also, our image in Asia remains pretty upbeat:

How Asians Rate China, India, Pakistan, Japan and the U.S. | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project

Among most SEA states (Thailand/Malaysia/Indonesia), we remain broadly liked.

Overall, you seem very critical of China's self-restraint. It's true we haven't be properly rewarded for it, thanks to US propaganda and "chess" manoeuvres. But don't forget that life is not a PR battle. When Japan invaded us, the world was overwhelmingly sympathetic, yet it didn't do us much good, and it didn't hinder Japan on the ground either. Unlike VN/PH, we have a strategic interest in demonstrating restraint because we continue to benefit and grow the most during peacetime, thereby exponentially enlarging our gap with regional rivals, and closing the gap with the US.

No I'm not being critical of any "self-restraint." I don't even know what actions would be best for China in that situation. But common sense says that if you were being "self-restraint", then you should be winning the PR war. If your are not winning the PR war, then you should go all out and be controlling everything. Yet, China is losing the PR war and and is hardly controlling anything compared to the other guys.

I'll give you credit for successfully bullying the Philippines in the Scarborough shoals. But the Philippines is weak, and Ah Q is known for bullying the weak.

But you haven't gained anything from Viet Nam since 2009. You've planted the oil rig just a few miles from the paracels (and hundreds of miles from the coast of VN) yet then withdrew earlier than declared. Was it because there were tougher resistance from VN and a diplomatic objection from the US? I don't know but that incident achieved nothing.

Also, his idea of a "brilliant" chess move seems off to me. China's AIIB manoeuvre was a brilliant chess move: even China's enemies acknowledged (and cried) about it. In contrast, the many US responses: screaming at the UK for "accommodating" China, landing fighter jets in Taiwan (is China supposed to be intimated?), banning Intel from selling chips to China, and now these impotent warnings all strike me as the geopolitical equivalent of throwing the chess board on the floor in frustration.

Read my posts again. When did I ever mentioned "brilliant"??? Why did you even emphasize it by putting quotation marks around it when I didn't even mention that word at all?

That is called a strawman argument. And an Ah Q spiritual victory is in fact a "strawman" victory. You build something up out of thin air and declare it a victory.

Before 2009, China was on good terms with everyone, including a close relationship with the Philippines and the US was nowhere in sight. Now VN is welcoming back the US and the Philippines is filing a lawsuit against you with full support from the US and you still can't accept that China is losing to the US in the SCS? Instead, you are now talking about something offtopic like the AIIB to rationalize in your head how China is still winning?

If you give VN cheap loans then they will just take it. Why not? Haven't you forgotten about the free money China gave to VN during the war and then later cried about it because VN still rather stick to the Soviet? AIIB will bring you no victory in the SCS other than a "spiritual victory."

This is the exact Ah Q mentality I was talking about.

First of all its you who post the picture and brag how weak China is in SCS and when exposed China dont even looks like an aggressor by your own foolishness, you change topic? So who is real bully? Bully with less possession?

Silly reply. Read my post again. I posted that picture to your guys posts about China taking actions, controlling things,etc.

It seems the vietnamese claiming of victory over China has not draw any criticism or any of your ah Q spirit despite demonstrated of achieving none over China? Are you vietnamese?

No Vietnamese or Filipino has declared any victory other than your compatriots.

Are you ignoring the fact that China has never stop any construction of facilities on their Spratly island despite vietnamese bragging of immediate action against CHina or even American threat of warning? Who is loud whinner and who is the real man who take action? And who is the real Ah Q?

When did Vietnam brag about any immediate action to stop your construction? This is a strawman. And like I said, an Ah Q spiritual victory is a strawman victory. That is why you guys have a habit of always creating a strawman in every debate that I've come across.

And VietNam and the Philippines has been doing construction before China. Even your media has been crying about that hypocrisy.

We are not talking about renegade of Taiwan , are we? In the first place, you claim doubt of my post and even claim ah Q spirit. Have you ever think why US has not sell many advance weapons to ROC for many decades. US can piss off China by selling many advance weapons to ROC but they are not doing it. Becos the China spies ring in ROC is real and very extensive and I am not BullSh*ting. Most weapon in ROC hands will end up know by PRC. My link proves that.

Then shouldn't China be encouraging the US to sell Taiwan more weapons? LOL But China have always protested everytime the US wants to sell something. But don't worry, you can keep indulging in your Ah Q spiritual victory.

It's no fun debating with you guys. Too many holes in your argument.

 

[Beast]

Before 2009, China was on good terms with everyone, including a close relationship with the Philippines and the US was nowhere in sight. Now VN is welcoming back the US and the Philippines is filing a lawsuit against you with full support from the US and you still can't accept that China is losing to the US in the SCS? Instead, you are now talking about something offtopic like the AIIB to rationalize in your head how China is still winning?

Only pinoy and vietnam are the 2 whining. I don't see what kind of victory you painted when my link proves not many ASEAN sees your point. You are in self delusion. Despite with territory conflict, vietnam and Philippines still join a China led organization that defy US IMF. Do I need to say more?

If you give VN cheap loans then they will just take it. Why not? Haven't you forgotten about the free money China gave to VN during the war and then later cried about it because VN still rather stick to the Soviet? AIIB will bring you no victory in the SCS other than a "spiritual victory."

This is the exact Ah Q mentality I was talking about.

You think those loan with no string. If Vietnam and pinoy decide to move words beyond action. No loans for them. As simple as that.

No Vietnamese or Filipino has declared any victory other than your compatriots.

Yes they are, check back your thread and look at their attitude. You are just anti China. Nothin else.

When did Vietnam brag about any immediate action to stop your construction? This is a strawman. And like I said, an Ah Q spiritual victory is a strawman victory. That is why you guys have a habit of always creating a strawman in every debate that I've come across.

And VietNam and the Philippines has been doing construction before China. Even your media has been crying about that hypocrisy.

Vietnam is whining about China construction on spratly. You must be in deny to miss those report?

Then shouldn't China be encouraging the US to sell Taiwan more weapons? LOL But China have always protested everytime the US wants to sell something. But don't worry, you can keep indulging in your Ah Q spiritual victory.

It's no fun debating with you guys. Too easy.

You really has no brain. If China don't play along. Isn't it obvious China has the spies ring in ROC by encouraging US weapons sales to ROC?

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

when I don't even know what the oil rig have achieved other than giving China some bad PR

You still don‘t get it huh...well,think HARDER.
I dare you or one of your countrymen here on PDF can give the correct answer：what China really achieved by the oil rig.
I am pleasantly surprised that you know all about Ah Q, but nothing about Sun Tzu

 

[JSCh]

"Only the relationship with Vietnam has delivered significant strategic benefits to the United States in the past six years."

From the article, I think the strategic benefits US defence minister refers to is democratic governance. In another word, US influence on the progress of color revolution in Vietnam has improve with the relationship.

 

[Place Of Space]

The US obviously doesn't sell Taiwan top of the line stuff.

You can go to Egypt and sit in a E2C AWACS too.

Don't post bullshit, just start the war, like a man. Anything else?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Don't post bullshit, just start the war, like a man. Anything else?

Maybe you should look in the mirror at the flowery dress you are wearing when it comes to your own backyard of Taiwan. Anything else?

 

[Place Of Space]

Maybe you should look in the mirror at the flowery dress you are wearing when it comes to your own backyard of Taiwan. Anything else?

start the war, or shut up.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

start the war, or shut up.

Why do we have to start a war? Every day that goes by is just another day of humiliation for you.