Notify PAF Aircraft Crashes

[Windjammer]

Contrary to reports by some sources, the PAF aircraft involved in the crash was a single seat F-7PG serial # 01-808 from No.17 Sqn.
Pilots was Flt Lt Bilal who safely bailed out.

 

[MastanKhan]

Although there shouldn't be any excuse for PAF's crashes but at the same time it's unfair to compare with say IAF.
Firstly majority of IAF's front line strength consists of twin engine jets, which gives you that extra safety besides, unlike the PAF, which has been involved in combat missions for a decade, the IAF hasn't fired in anger since the Kargil conflict....the PAF operations, albeit of low intensity still translates into extra sorties than peacetime flying.

Hi,

You are judged by what you operate and that is what you fight with---.

Incompetence can be fixed thru clearer and well defined instructions---rigorous training and implementing stricter rules.

But arrogance and strutting around---that is a massive problem and it cannot be fixed just like that---and incidently---Paf is full of it---.

Bottomline---Paf has bigger problems in correcting the issue than the Iaf.

Off the topic discussion does not add anything stick to the topic and do not being a b c etc

Hi,

Good morning---.

When you write an original article of your own on this board just for ONCE---maybe then you can comment like that.

In the past years---I have seen nothing original from you---nothing---zilch---nada---not even a worthless article about the subject matter---.

It is all copy paste or stolen material from other posters.

 

[messiach]

No.

did they all go to maintenance/checkup together? same person? parts from same batch?

PIA has been eaten up by 'parasites' , its literally disgusting & so when our group opted out via an intermediary organisation to PAF, the first year was really depressing. Chengdu happened to be a fresh breather for our group and the most glaringly notable difference over the next 5 yrs was the far greater transparency and consequent professionalism matching international standards.

Transparency and Audit, thats what is needed. Rest will fall back.

Hi,

You are judged by what you operate and that is what you fight with---.

Incompetence can be fixed thru clearer and well defined instructions---rigorous training and implementing stricter rules.

But arrogance and strutting around---that is a massive problem and it cannot be fixed just like that---and incidently---Paf is full of it---.

Bottomline---Paf has bigger problems in correcting the issue than the Iaf.

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

Keep your naive prejudices to yourself. The defense budget is not in the control of any civilian government and if you think Taliban Khan will be any different, you are mistaken.

Wow we've another expert defending baboon league. How naive you're , I can get that by the fact that you support Noora. What have you done? A PHD degree and some 30 years experience in the defense ministry as well as industry?

 

[Talon]

Hi,
well defined instructions---rigorous training and implementing stricter rules.

U surely havent interacted with any PAF person otherwise u wouldn't be saying this..PAF training is one of the toughest..I know a pilot who had sleep disorders and couldnt sleep at night just bcuz of pressure he had to face during his training..IPs treat their students the way they like,even use vulgar language just to bring them under pressure so that they dont pee their pants when facing the real enemy and make gud decisions ..Fail 3 consecutive missions and u are out of fighter flying...from a batch of 70 cadets avg 20 pilots pass through all the training before becoming OPs...
Talk about rules? If the plane's G limit is 6 and u take it to 6.2 u'll be put under inquiry..etc etc

 

[Chak Bamu]

When you write an original article of your own on this board just for ONCE---maybe then you can comment like that.

In the past years---I have seen nothing original from you---nothing---zilch---nada---not even a worthless article about the subject matter---.

It is all copy paste or stolen material from other posters.

It is incredibly arrogant of you to say this, particularly when @khanasifm is actually right.

Over the years he has posted a lot and quality of his posts is better than many here. It does not look good to call into question quality of his posts when you are yourself a one-trick-pony who keeps harping on what did or did not happen 30 years ago.

Wow we've another expert defending baboon league. How naive you're , I can get that by the fact that you support Noora. What have you done? A PHD degree and some 30 years experience in the defense ministry as well as industry?

Keep political discussions out of this thread. If you must discuss politics, then go to politics section.

 

[MastanKhan]

It is incredibly arrogant of you to say this, particularly when @khanasifm is actually right.

Over the years he has posted a lot and quality of his posts is better than many here. It does not look good to call into question quality of his posts when you are yourself a one-trick-pony who keeps harping on what did or did not happen 30 years ago.

Hi,

Men can answer their critics and not have some ----h answer on their behalf---.

You may be a 'pony' I am just a horse---.

And what have you put up on this board that is worth something---your own---and some stolen copy and paste---.

U surely havent interacted with any PAF person otherwise u wouldn't be saying this..PAF training is one of the toughest..I know a pilot who had sleep disorders and couldnt sleep at night just bcuz of pressure he had to face during his training..IPs treat their students the way they like,even use vulgar language just to bring them under pressure so that they dont pee their pants when facing the real enemy and make gud decisions ..Fail 3 consecutive missions and u are out of fighter flying...from a batch of 70 cadets avg 20 pilots pass through all the training before becoming OPs...
Talk about rules? If the plane's G limit is 6 and u take it to 6.2 u'll be put under inquiry..etc etc

Hi,

When you become a professional---work for a mega corporations---you don't have to interact with an organization to see what is happening---.

What shows on the surface---is the evidence of the ROT that is setting in.

Now---how deep the ROT is---is a different story---for that you have to look inside of the structure---.

But the outside indications are that the PAF is begining to come apart at the seams---.

It may recover and recoup---we will see---but the vast technology gap that it has faced is for sure problematic.

Transparency and Audit, thats what is needed. Rest will fall back.

Hi,

Indeed---there lies the solution.

 

[Talon]

Hi,

Men can answer their critics and not have some ----h answer on their behalf---.

You may be a 'pony' I am just a horse---.

And what have you put up on this board that is worth something---your own---and some stolen copy and paste---.



Hi,

When you become a professional---work for a mega corporations---you don't have to interact with an organization to see what is happening---.

What shows on the surface---is the evidence of the ROT that is setting in.

Now---how deep the ROT is---is a different story---for that you have to look inside of the structure---.

But the outside indications are that the PAF is begining to come apart at the seams---.

It may recover and recoup---we will see---but the vast technology gap that it has faced is for sure problematic.



Hi,

Indeed---there lies the solution.

Now u are trying to play the game of words...this aint gonna help u
See,most of the NON-MUSLIM world see ISLAM and MUSLIMS as terrorists...and u and I know this is not the case so yeah MR KHAN Dont judge a book by its cover..if YOU think that upper command of PAF are traitors and incompetent people then u cant say that the whole organisation is incompetent and treacherous..

 

[MastanKhan]

Now u are trying to play the game of words...this aint gonna help u
See,most of the NON-MUSLIM world see ISLAM and MUSLIMS as terrorists...and u and I know this is not the case so yeah MR KHAN Dont judge a book by its cover..if YOU think that upper command of PAF are traitors and incompetent people then u cant say that the whole organisation is incompetent and treacherous..

Hi,

That is not a very intelligent answer---.

Targeting muslim nations as terrs---is a tactical and strategic game plan---it is meant to sabotage their integrity and identity---.

But looking at a business---a corporation---and organization and getting a reflection back has nothing to do with what you stated---seems like you are too young to understand that difference---and do not have a very good comprehension and grasp of the issue at hand.

My recommendations would be to post your age and profession so that I can better understand where you are coming from and answer accordingly---.

 

[ziaulislam]

Hi,

I remember when you pakistani kids were bashing indian pilots on their crashes---.

Pay back is a bit-ch---ain't it.

India has mostly groubded their migs and now our migs are reaching the 2000 hrs mark

 

[ziaulislam]

i guess its not just the indian mig21, or bisons pak migs/f-7 also are in dire need of replacement. But then the question is both paf and iaf fly other planes like jaguars and mirages in greater numbers, and they have lower crash rate why?
Not sure but i have some theories, request any senior member to validate them
1) These aircrafts are old and less advance hence are given lower importance in maintanance, storage of planes which is resulting in failiurs
2) Because pilots are flying more advance aircrafts they try to take these machines beyond what they are capable of enduring(both manuvering, equipments) hence causes crashes, ground collision, disorientation
3) Pilots treat these planes as old toys, old bikes and u know what we do with old machines. We try to rip them apart just for fun(ripping means doing unnecessary dragging, climbing, g forces etc).
4) Some thing is wrong in the original engines of these aircrafts which is just coming up with time (although no reports for this).
@Oscar @Windjammer

Well our migs and mirages both are crashing. India jauguars are much safer twin engines and have different role while the others have been grounded
Pakistan simply needs urgently 3-4 sq

 

[MastanKhan]

India has mostly groubded their migs and now our migs are reaching the 2000 hrs mark

Hi,

Thanks you for your post---.

I also think that the stress of not having a potent aircraft in right numbers may also be an issue---where the pilots may want to outshine---and excel on limited resources---pushing the machines to their limits which may result in a catastrophe.

I mean to say---the pilots still have to do a job---and expecting them to take on far superior equipment just because they are pakistanis and are in the Paf is a little too much to ask---.

That is where accidents happen and inherent problems start to pop up---slowly at first---and then at a rapid pace---because the old machine can only take so much---and the enthusiasm of the pilot is limitless---.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Hi,

Men can answer their critics and not have some ----h answer on their behalf---.

You may be a 'pony' I am just a horse---.

And what have you put up on this board that is worth something---your own---and some stolen copy and paste---.

Unlike you I never pretended to be an expert. I am an engineer with an interest in Pakistan's armed forces and I do not try to pass myself off as an expert. Like most here I come to learn. As for 'stolen' copy paste, show me one post of mine that was so. Just the fact that you can say this about two long-time posters on this forum says a lot about who you are.

When you are being un-civil, you would be taken to task. I also know that you never take any criticism seriously and keep repeating same stories over and over and over again. So, I used some choice words for you just so that younger posters may know not to emulate your manners.

Again, this is a PAF Aircraft crashes thread, not Mastan-Khan-goes-berserk thread. Keep it civil please.

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

Keep political discussions out of this thread. If you must discuss politics, then go to politics section.

Supi sahb, why can't you say this to the one I was replying to? Are you scared of him?

 

[hacker J]

Well our migs and mirages both are crashing. India jauguars are much safer twin engines and have different role while the others have been grounded
Pakistan simply needs urgently 3-4 sq

Yep but still mirages have had a better crash rate if you see crash per 1000 sorties. And jaguars and mirages have kind of similar roles of ground attack air support thats what is rose upgrade is about , standoff weapons amd nuclear attack. Although jaguars have addition role of deep penitration which is served by f16 in paf.