'No Pakistani official had knowledge of Osama': Grenier

[Vinod2070]

Your mind is closed and you are in denial. I know some indians are scared of the neighbourhood they live in and hope that america and israel will help you if you get kicked but this is ridiculous psycophancy on your part for americans is incredibke. Oh and your neighbours are peacefull so you dont need america. Back to thread ISI were not complicit there is no evidence of this whatsoever and lack of knowledge does not mean incompetence.

On the part of an intelligence agency and on an issue as vital as this, it does mean exactly that.

 

[lem34]

Looks like we are going in circles. You feel your "opinions" are the right ones.

You have presented no "smoking gun" proof for anything that you ask me to do. There will likely never be those "smoking gun" proofs.

So one has to make a best judgement and that always carries a peril that someone else may not agree with it. I am fine with it.

So what you are saying is that there is no evidence and you will speculate and come to a conclusion without facts. Sometimes I think its a waste of time discussing with you. Simply do you not understand no one oin the world has produced any evidence of the assertion made in this thread

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Looks like we are going in circles. You feel your "opinions" are the right ones.

You have presented no "smoking gun" proof for anything that you ask me to do. There will likely never be those "smoking gun" proofs.

I am not the one making allegations of 'Official Pakistani complicity in sheltering OBL, supporting AQ, allowing the Taliban to shelter in FATA after the US invasion' - it is the US/you who are making those allegations, and as the accuser the burden of providing credible evidence is on you, not on me.

And please do look into my point about almost none of Farhat Taj's work being independently corroborated - all her 'polls and interviews' were done by her and her organization with no independent verification, and her outlandish conclusions and claims have been repeatedly debunked by reputable Western organizations conducting their own studies and polls in Pakistan.

Given your penchant for clinging to unsubstantiated rumors and speculation meant to smear Pakistan, I suppose it should not be a surprise that you find Farhat Taj, with all her uncorroborated work, 'credible'.

 

[lem34]

On the part of an intelligence agency and on an issue as vital as this, it does mean exactly that.

If thats the case what does it show when your govt handed a list to pakistan of most wanted allegedly in pakistan and some of those on the list were found in prison in india. How many agencies in india did that reflect on. Intelligence agencies are not God they are just that intelligence agencies. ISI relative to other state secret servises compares very favourably in my opinion

 

[Nelson]

Fair enough. Government of Pakistan doesn't know about this. ISI or the Army doesn't know about this. Then what the government, ISI, and army is doing there? WHY they are not aware of the biggest terrorist living near military academy?

Even if its a clean chit, there's a question for Pakistan's ability.

 

[lem34]

Fair enough. Government of Pakistan doesn't know about this. ISI or the Army doesn't know about this. Then what the government, ISI, and army is doing there? WHY they are not aware of the biggest terrorist living near military academy?

Even if its a clean chit, there's a question for Pakistan's ability.

If you have read all the posts on this thread you would not say this. So i suggest you read all then come back if you dont still understand I will again try to explain to you

 

[Vinod2070]

If thats the case what does it show when your govt handed a list to pakistan of most wanted allegedly in pakistan and some of those on the list were found in prison in india. How many agencies in india did that reflect on. Intelligence agencies are not God they are just that intelligence agencies. ISI relative to other state secret servises compares very favourably in my opinion

I think our government/agencies proved to be incompetent in that episode.

 

[Vinod2070]

So what you are saying is that there is no evidence and you will speculate and come to a conclusion without facts. Sometimes I think its a waste of time discussing with you. Simply do you not understand no one oin the world has produced any evidence of the assertion made in this thread

What kind of proof will satisfy you?

There is no evidence that ISI/PA was officially involved in sheltering OBL in a garrison town, next to a military academy for five years or more. There is no evidence that it was not.

What do you think is the first thought that comes to mind? Why was he feeling that was the most secure place in all of Pakistan?

 

[lem34]

What kind of proof will satisfy you?

There is no evidence that ISI/PA was officially involved in sheltering OBL in a garrison town, next to a military academy for five years or more. There is no evidence that it was not.

What do you think is the first thought that comes to my mind? Why was he feeling that was the most secure place in all of Pakistan?

First thing that comes to my mind is that Osama was clever ie go to a place where you would least expect to be, But whatever thought comes to mind is its all speculation

 

[Yeti]

First thing that comes to my mind is that Osama was clever ie go to a place where you would least expect to be, But whatever thought comes to mind is its all speculation

not that clever as he was found and killed

 

[Vinod2070]

I am not the one making allegations of 'Official Pakistani complicity in sheltering OBL, supporting AQ, allowing the Taliban to shelter in FATA after the US invasion' - it is the US/you who are making those allegations, and as the accuser the burden of providing credible evidence is on you, not on me.

The Taliban part is very clear. Are you now even denying that? You obliquely accepted that yesterday, so does your elected president. Remember "running and hunting at the same time"?

And please do look into my point about almost none of Farhat Taj's work being independently corroborated - all her 'polls and interviews' were done by her and her organization with no independent verification, and her outlandish conclusions and claims have been repeatedly debunked by reputable Western organizations conducting their own studies and polls in Pakistan.

She mentioned a tribal Jirga for example that welcomed the drones and I saw an independent proof of that. She is herself a tribal and a highly educated one that carries some credibility for her knowledge of the affairs there.

I see no reason to take your words over hers. I have seen you as an unabashed apologetic of what you think are Pakistan's interests irrespective of the means employed. That includes the 1971 events, the Afghan adventure, the Taliban adventure, the Kashmir "Jihad" and so on.

You have not even produced those "polls" that have supposedly "repeatedly debunked by reputable Western organizations conducting their own studies and polls in Pakistan".

Given your penchant for clinging to unsubstantiated rumors and speculation meant to smear Pakistan, I suppose it should not be a surprise that you find Farhat Taj, with all her uncorroborated work, 'credible'.

As much as you may want to negate it, she is actually becoming quite credible on these issues.

 

[lem34]

not that clever as he was found and killed

Took all the might of americans 10 years and some would say that osama succeeded in bleeding americans to the point where they have 1 in 6 on food stamps and rising. 9,2% unemployment and rising. Unsustainable debt of 14 trill and rising. America is going bust and more americans killed in august by taleban than ever before.

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

In my opinion if Pakistanis wanted to hide osama americans would never have found him. After all they managed against american wishes to produce nukes secretly. Hiding one man is easier than hiding the infrastructure for nukes. So you indians go and speculate on that

 

[Yeti]

Took all the might of americans 10 years and some would say that osama succeeded in bleeding americans to the point where they have 1 in 6 on food stamps and rising. 9,2% unemployment and rising. Unsustainable debt of 14 trill and rising. America is going bust and more americans killed in august by taleban than ever before.

---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

In my opinion if Pakistanis wanted to hide osama americans would never have found him. After all they managed against american wishes to produce nukes secretly. Hiding one man is easier than hiding the infrastructure for nukes. So you indians go and speculate on that

Where did you get this idea that Pakistan produced nukes in secret? as for America finding Bin ladin it was due to vital intelligence that they traced him but Bin ladin was not the mastermind of 9/11 it was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was found hiding in Karachi.

 

[lem34]

Where did you get this idea that Pakistan produced nukes in secret? as for America finding Bin ladin it was due to vital intelligence that they traced him but Bin ladin was not the mastermind of 9/11 it was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was found hiding in Karachi.

Vital intelligence which obama said came from pakistanis

 

[lem34]

Are you guys trolls or what. Back to thread there is no evidence whatsoever that pakistan or any of its agencies were complicit or incompetent period