Abbottabad Bin Laden Raid

[White and Green with M/S]

Your military was in power for half of Pakistan’s existence and is currently in power now. Who is preventing them from engaging in land reforms?

Instead the military is trying to start corporate farming instead.

You view the military as some holy cow, when they themselves all come from this landlord/chor/elite class.

@Path-Finder don’t waste your energy brother. Ignore and let’s keep on having discussions with like minded people. (Y)

So both ( politicians/military) are corrupt s what should we do to run Pakistan???

 

[Path-Finder]

I have forums of my own and some have attempted to undermine my ability to run them but they were very disappointed. I showed them that I am not somebody they can take down at whim.

I can dig out your posting record and show you how many times you have violated Forum Rules in your posts and got away with it. Pretty solid case on my hands to discuss your case with PDF administration, if it comes down to this.

People like you feel encouraged to spit venom on PDF because of leniency shown by Mods.

Learn to post sensibly and accept your bad judgements when they are pointed out. Do not take my leniency for granted. You will be most disappointed otherwise.

do you remember when you banned me and then made my ban permanent so i cannot return?

I did get that ban revoked. you banned me with a set time BUT then made my ban permanent!

No worries I am happy to have PDF admins give me the boot if they want to. Open my case. let the judgement begin.

 

[LeGenD]

do you remember when you banned me and then made my ban permanent so i cannot return?

I did get that ban revoked. you banned me with a set time BUT then made my ban permanent!

No worries I am happy to have PDF admins give me the boot if they want to. Open my case. let the judgement begin.

You remember it wrong.

I banned you for violating Forum Rules in a thread but removed it. This was a mistake, something I should not have done.

And don't tell me what I should do. I will take action when I feel I need to.

 

[Neelo]

So both ( politicians/military) are corrupt s what should we do to run Pakistan???

Very simple….either someone within the military steps up and goes the route South Korea took, OR someone within the political sphere steps up.

Imran Khan was that guy. Nobody thought he would be a saviour, but at least he could set a precedent. And others would want to emulate him forcing them to be better.

That’s how democracy matures and how Pakistan would benefit.

 

[Path-Finder]

You remember it wrong, dear.

I banned you for violating Forum Rules in a thread but removed it. This was a mistake, something I should not have done.

Oh NO, don't do that. Don't say it was a mistake. it was no mistake. it was calculated.

But you go ahead and open my case to senior admins. I will respect their judgment.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Very simple….either someone within the military steps up and goes the route South Korea took, OR someone within the political sphere steps up.

Imran Khan was that guy. Nobody thought he would be a saviour, but at least he could set a precedent. And others would want to emulate him forcing them to be better.

That’s how democracy matures and how Pakistan would benefit.

IK IS not savoir or innocent he came into power with help of establishment everybody knows it

 

[Neelo]

IK IS not savoir or innocent he came into power with help of establishment everybody knows it

So did every other politician. So why do you tell me "ask PMLN and PPP" in regards to American drones when here you admit all politicians are controlled by the GHQ?

You don't even know what you're arguing about anymore do you.

Imran Khan became bigger than GHQ. He wanted Pakistan to stand on its own feet and have self respect.

Your military said no.

Now they're bringing back their old chor Nawaz and Zardari.

 

[LeGenD]

Here’s what Seoul looks like now after 27 years of military rule.

View attachment 948955

I’m not even going to bother posting a picture of Karachi (similar in size to Seoul) for your own sake and my sake.

You see I‘m ashamed and embarrassed to even feel like this and post this. This country had so much potential and you flushed it all down the toilet.

The difference between me and you is I know who the real enemy is.

You folks seem to be living in LaLa delusion land. Don’t you have any shame in the state that you’ve put Pakistan in?

Even Bangladesh now has moved ahead of Pakistan is many respects.

South Korea is a sensible country.
South Korean establishment is not into creating militias to fight its battles, it does not want to keep snakes in its backyard that will bite them at some point.
South Korea worked with the US to develop its economy.
South Korea had authoritative leadership initially but it transformed itself into a democratic country in time. South Korean establishment has learned to respect wishes of its people, but even in this case, South Korea does not compromise on its security needs. For instance, some in South Korea objected to hosting THAAD battery but South Korean leadership took a stand on this issue to meet its security needs.

In Pakistan, those who are in the army and their family members get to decide what is right and what is wrong for the country. The Establishment will conduct political and other experiments from time-to-time. But the problem is not limited to the Establishment, bureaucratic civilians also have arrogance. Judiciary is rotten and compromised as well. This is a societal problem.

Pakistani cannot honor their commitments, want to fight with big powers, create militias to fight their battles, do corruption on a mass scale, rely on one neighbor to do everything for it, and expect miracles in the end. Pakistani tend to assume that they can make or break superpowers out there.

Pakistan does everything that goes against teachings in the Holy Quran, so tell me how it can develop and prosper.

WE also have people like you - rigid to the core and not listening to those what researchers have to say. This type of attitude is not conducive to debate and solves nothing.

When a society is on the verge of destruction, its people will fight each other and saner voices will be overlooked. This is how it is.

 

[LeGenD]

IK IS not savoir or innocent he came into power with help of establishment everybody knows it

Absolutely.

Military was HOLY and its statements were GOSPEL when it supported Khan and Co. Now it is BAD and it LIES.

These people are not bitter on sensible grounds but on political grounds. It shows in the posts.

Genuine people are those who can see faults in each camp and are willing to set things straight.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

So did every other politician. So why do you tell me "ask PMLN and PPP" in regards to American drones when here you admit all politicians are controlled by the GHQ?

You don't even know what you're arguing about anymore do you.

Imran Khan became bigger than GHQ. He wanted Pakistan to stand on its own feet and have self respect.

Your military said no.

Now they're bringing back their old chor Nawaz and Zardari.

We don't expect IK do same that previous politicians he had no chance to disobey establishment

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

They did not win against US. Only after they left, the Afghan army abandoned their posts because they lacked the skills and Taliban just walked in.

Afghan Taliban won the war.

Even BBC and Al Jazeera acknowledged this.

Now get lost.

 

[ProudThamizhan]

Reading the sadness and sorrows expressed by many Pakistanis in PDF (not this thread) and reading the condition of their economy and psychological trauma it seems to be wreaking on its youth, I have been feeling quite sorry and beginning to wish Pakistan would get better.

And then I come across threads such as this where people seem to be hell bent on obfuscating Pakistan military's culpability with Al Qaeda and how the USA was milked for tens of billions and thousands of lives by deceitful double-cross prolonging the hunt. It almost makes me think again that the sadness is deserved

 

[LeGenD]

We don't expect IK do same that previous politicians he had no chance to disobey establishment

I personally respect Khan for his sportsmanship and contributions to the country in the form of creating hospitals and universities, and planting trees. He also launched construction of a dam - something that was not done in a long time. Khan encouraged me to partake in polls and I gave my vote to him because I believed in him.

I met a man who understands Pakistani politics from the inside out. He cautioned me that Khan's setup is built on military support and will disappoint due to acceptance of political lotas and bad apples. These people will undermine him at some point. I did not pay much heed to these views back then but this man was right about everything. It is shocking.

What I like about Khan is that he is not corrupt like a large number of politicians in the country. His arrest and sentencing in connection to a questionable Toshakhana case shows how much is wrong in this country wherein some have committed corruption on a much bigger scale but are declared innocent with support of incredibly corrupt and rotten judiciary.

The unfortunate reality is that it took Khan several years to see how much was wrong around him.

Khan also made some bad calls when he had things under his control, he can be too rigid for his own good, or he was misled. Not sure.

Pakistan itself has stumbled by mishandling the War On Terror saga and putting most of its eggs in one basket in economical terms. Pakistan rely too much on China to meet its security and economic needs and is unable to expand its relations with a large number of countries to its benefit. Pakistan is unable to improve its bilateral relations with the US due to prevalence of the Anti-American sentiment on questionable grounds, the Establishment and politicians have cast US in negative light from time-to-time. Khan has also contributed to this effect unfortunately.

What have WE learned from our mistakes and miscalculations? How can WE develop bilateral relations with a large number of countries in the world? How can WE mend ties with the US and avoid camp politics? How can WE improve on a societal level? Are WE willing to introspect on our issues? These are pressing questions but you will rarely find a good answer here on PDF and elsewhere. Many are too obsessed with India and US in negative sense to think straight.

Popular conspiracy theories in Pakistani discourses:

US does not want CPEC to succeed and this is why it toppled Khan setup.
BLA was created and funded by RAW
TTP was created and funded by RAW
ISIS was created by US
9/11 was inside job
US is weak and destroyed, China is poised to rule the world.
Dollar has collapsed
Moon landings are fake
Abbottabad raid was topi drama
Good Taliban and Bad Taliban

You expect intellectual discussions from these conspiratorial nutjobs? Like seriously. These people cannot provide a sense of direction and how to address Pakistani problems because they see conspiracy in everything. Hollywood fiction has taken a toll on these minds.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

I personally respect Khan for his sportsmanship and contributions to the country in the form of creating hospitals and universities, and planting trees. He also launched construction of a dam - something that was not done in a long time. Khan encouraged me to partake in polls and I gave my vote to him because I believed in him.

I met a man who understands Pakistani politics from the inside out. He cautioned me that Khan's setup is built on military support and will disappoint due to acceptance of political lotas and bad apples. These people will undermine him at some point. I did not pay much heed to these views back then but this man was right about everything. It is shocking.

What I like about Khan is that he is not corrupt like a large number of politicians in the country. His arrest and sentencing in connection to a questionable Toshakhana case shows how much is wrong in this country wherein some have committed corruption on a much bigger scale but are declared innocent with support of incredibly corrupt and rotten judiciary.

The unfortunate reality is that it took Khan several years to see how much was wrong around him.

Khan also made some bad calls when he had things under his control, he can be too rigid for his own good, or he was misled. Not sure.

Pakistan itself has stumbled by mishandling the War On Terror saga and putting most of its eggs in one basket in economical terms. Pakistan rely too much on China to meet its security and economic needs and is unable to expand its relations with a large number of countries to its benefit. Pakistan is unable to improve its bilateral relations with the US due to prevalence of the Anti-American sentiment on questionable grounds, the Establishment and politicians have cast US in negative light from time-to-time. Khan has also contributed to this effect unfortunately.

What have WE learned from our mistakes and miscalculations? How can WE develop bilateral relations with a large number of countries in the world? How can WE mend ties with the US and avoid camp politics? How can WE improve on a societal level? Are WE willing to introspect on our issues? These are pressing questions but you will rarely find a good answer here on PDF and elsewhere. Many are too obsessed with India and US in negative sense to think straight.

Popular conspiracy theories in Pakistani discourses:

US does not want CPEC to succeed and this is why it toppled Khan setup.
BLA was created and funded by RAW
TTP was created and funded by RAW
ISIS was created by US
9/11 was inside job
US is weak and destroyed, China is poised to rule the world.
Dollar has collapsed

You expect intellectual discussions from these nutjobs? Like seriously.

ISIS was not created by USA.

9/11 could have been an inside job. Osama Bin Laden died of Kidney disease.

USA is not Weak, but China will eclipse USA economically in maybe a couple of years.

I agree with some of your points, but not with all your points.

Iraq war was illegal according to United Nations and Kofi Annan.

So USA is not completely honest when dealing with other peoples and nations.

Iraq war proved this.

 

[Neelo]

We don't expect IK do same that previous politicians he had no chance to disobey establishment

He did. That’s why he’s in jail Einstein, while your dogs Nawaz and Zardari are free.

How hard is this for you to understand?