No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[Drebin]

I see. . . Thanks @araz.

 

[Kompromat]

A former air chief too is strongly against the induction of the Fc-20 for the many reasons we've been discussing.

 

[Drebin]

A former air chief too is strongly against the induction of the Fc-20 for the many reasons we've been discussing.

It won't be wise anyway to induct a 4.5 Gen platform and, that also not matured yet, this late in the game. The only and wise option is what PAF is doing, i.e., induct more vipers and MLU them to Block 52 standard while concentrating funds and efforts in Thunders. Its better to jump to 5th gen platform as soon as possible instead of J-10s.

 

[araz]

It won't be wise anyway to induct a 4.5 Gen platform and, that also not matured yet, this late in the game. The only and wise option is what PAF is doing, i.e., induct more vipers and MLU them to Block 52 standard while concentrating funds and efforts in Thunders. Its better to jump to 5th gen platform as soon as possible instead of J-10s.

My worry is that PAF has suddenly changed its tack of having the duplicate systems. Why is that and what has changed. If there is a confrontation and the US blocks spares supply what will happen to our nuclear threshold. Unless the reading is that the nuclear threshold will be crossed as soon as there is confrontation. The second issue is what are we giving to get all the goodies from uncle. However whichever way we look a t the situation the induction of more A&B16s cannot be bad if the system could be homogenised. BL52S That is a different story.
Araz

 

[VCheng]

My worry is that PAF has suddenly changed its tack of having the duplicate systems. Why is that and what has changed. If there is a confrontation and the US blocks spares supply what will happen to our nuclear threshold. Unless the reading is that the nuclear threshold will be crossed as soon as there is confrontation. The second issue is what are we giving to get all the goodies from uncle. However whichever way we look a t the situation the induction of more A&B16s cannot be bad if the system could be homogenised. BL52S That is a different story.
Araz

May be the "duplicate systems" are not working as well as was hyped?

 

[Drebin]

@araz,
I guess sir that PAF only entertained the idea of J-10 to counter the IAF Rafale threat. Since it hasn't materialized yet and, may be PAF has the inside information/intelligence that it may never either as IAF is already stretched thin with LCA, MKI, PAK-FA and the indigenous effort to kick start AMCA. Their Mirage 2000-5s are performing above their expectations and MKI form the backbone of their MRCA. With the imminent launch of LCA, massive funds invested in PAK-FA and ambition to kick start AMCA project, its may be a plan logical for even laymen to assume that IAF scrapping Rafale and aiming to introduce 5th Gen platform like rest of the world or say, Pakistan ?!

Let's not forget that once Pakistan itself was interested in Rafale and other MRCA as Typhoon. But thing is, at that time PAF or Pakistan Government also had that kind of financial muscle to squeeze. But things changed after 2005 earthquake, political instability and so on and so forth. Thus, in my humble view, both forces have simply been power posturing in order to gauge the adversary's reaction. And after all these many years, they've simply realized that both of them have played into one an others hands and ended up presenting MRCA nothing more then a boogeyman for each other. And I say good for both of us as it halted an other arms race in South Asia or it'd have ended up redundant platforms with same roles in either Air Force, training and logistical nightmare and bleeding the economy dry.

But of course, I may be entirely wrong and IAF still has Rafale on the papers. If so, then rest assured that, PAF hasn't given up on the option of J-10 either .

On the side note, since we and PAF are of the opinion that next platform to be introduced should actually be a 5th Gen aircraft vs 4.5++ Gen. So what are the chances of us opting for F-35 Lightening II instead of J-31 and why? A detailed and logical answer will be deeply appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[VCheng]

So what are the chances of us opting for F-35 Lightening II instead of J-31 and why?

Whether the USA put the F-35/II on offer to begin with, is the first question to ask before Pakistan can "opt" for it.

 

[araz]

May be the "duplicate systems" are not working as well as was hyped?

Possibly or the needs at the moment is rapid induction of platform to circumvent block obsolescence. The US also has become more receptive to PAFs needs.

 

[VCheng]

Possibly or the needs at the moment is rapid induction of platform to circumvent block obsolescence. The US also has become more receptive to PAFs needs.

It would be wise to assume USA's receptiveness as being fickle given the history. The whole point of the duplication strategy was to hedge against such episodes of feasting followed by long droughts, no?

 

[Drebin]

Whether the USA put the F-35/II on offer to begin with, is the first question to ask before Pakistan can "opt" for it.

True sir. Can't refute you there. But if its indeed a fact then, can we dig ourselves out of this predicament is also a question.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Let's not forget that once Pakistan itself was interested in Rafale and other MRCA as Typhoon. But thing is, at that time PAF or Pakistan Government also had that kind of financial muscle to squeeze. But things changed after 2005 earthquake, political instability and so on and so forth. Thus, in my humble view, both forces have simply been power posturing in order to gauge the adversary's reaction. And after all these many years, they've simply realized that both of them have played into one an others hands and ended up presenting MRCA nothing more then a boogeyman for each other. And I say good for both of us as it halted an other arms race in South Asia or it'd have ended up redundant platforms with same roles in either Air Force, training and logistical nightmare and bleeding the economy dry.

A slight correction for the sake of the young readers.
Things didn't go bad for Rafale and Typhoon after the 2005 major earthquake.But those were the F-16s and their number was reduced to 18 from the original number of 36.So, that was the most recent lost opportunity.And this is exactly the one that they'll most likely want to grab once more.

 

[VCheng]

True sir. Can't refute you there. But if its indeed a fact then, can we dig ourselves out of this predicament is also a question.

Much will depend on how Pakistan's co-operation, or lack thereof, is perceived in DC over the next couple of years given the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I hope Pakistan plays its hand better than in the recent past.

 

[Donatello]

Much will depend on how Pakistan's co-operation, or lack thereof, is perceived in DC over the next couple of years given the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I hope Pakistan plays its hand better than in the recent past.

Then US needs to define what it wants to achieve in the region. From the looks of it, they have been an utmost failure in every respect. Afghanistan is worse off than before. No changes have happened. All those billions of USD that went in, went no where.

 

[Kompromat]

@Drebin | F-35s are not available for PAF, We cant afford the, even if we could they are not up to the job as many nations consider to scrap it due to poor performance.

We have an option (given the economy) to become a partner in the PT-31001 program. It would have immense industrial benefits for Pakistan's aviation industry on top of its operational benefits.

 

[VCheng]

Then US needs to define what it wants to achieve in the region. From the looks of it, they have been an utmost failure in every respect. Afghanistan is worse off than before. No changes have happened. All those billions of USD that went in, went no where.

Here is Pakistan's chance to provide useful input to mutual advantage:

US to prepare strategy with Pakistan’s help

@Drebin | F-35s are not available for PAF, We cant afford the, even if we could they are not up to the job as many nations consider to scrap it due to poor performance.

We have an option (given the economy) to become a partner in the PT-31001 program. It would have immense industrial benefits for Pakistan's aviation industry on top of its operational benefits.

Scrap?

The F-35 will mature into a great platform, please mark my words.