No aircraft engines to Pak, please

[TomCat111]

The engines on Mig-25/31 are something along the lines of which UK and France have never had to build anything because they never had the requirement.

Don’t forget every time Mig-25 goes full power the engines are pulled and rebuilt.

 

[EagleEyes]

WebMaster,

You would need something shorter range than SD-10 (like A/T-Darter, IRIS-T etc.) to be able to mate it to a Helmet mounted cueing system. SD-10 is guided by the radar and not the cueing system simply becuase its a long range, BVR missile.

Yes, forgot about that. When it comes to JF-17, i only think of the SD-10. By the way, even though SD-10 MRAAM is a BVR missile, its still not a long range missile. Wondering if LRAAM missiles like S-Darter would be able to equip fighter jets?

 

[salman77]

Pakistan to get high-tech air defence system

​

ISLAMABAD: As per President Musharraf's directives Pakistan will acquire a high-tech air defence system next year, but it must come with transfer of technology, an official told The News.

"China and a European country have offered Pakistan High-to-Medium-Altitude Air Defence System, Low-to-Medium-Altitude Air Defence System, Medium-Altitude Air Defence System and Short-Range Air Defence System," said an official, who wanted not to be named. "The two countries have also offered to set up a project in Pakistan for manufacturing short- medium- and high-range air defence systems," he added.

The official said a former PAF chief had sent a summary to President Musharraf for the purchase of a high-altitude air defence system from a European country without transfer of technology, but the president rejected it.

"The summary has been rejected because Pakistan's adversary has MiG-25, MiG-29, SU-27 and SU-30 fighter planes which are capable of flying at an altitude of more than 25km," he added.

"Had the organisations engaged in developing nuclear-capable missiles indigenously been tasked with the development of a system to overcome this shortcoming, the country would have until now achieved the capability of hitting planes at an altitude of 25-29 kilometres," he remarked. "But no attention has been paid towards this aspect of the country's air defence capability."

The official said that Pakistan has radars that can detect aircraft flying at an altitude of 25-29 kilometres but the country still lacks a weapon system to hit such planes. He said the country needs to install at least one battery of an ultra-modern air defence system on four sides of major cities or military installations for security.

According to the official, one battery of such a defence system would comprise 16 vehicles, including two radar carriers, six missile launching vehicles and six support vehicles and thus each battery would cost $40-50 million.

A short-range air defence system can shoot down an enemy plane up to five kilometres and medium-range system is capable of hitting and attacking aircraft up to 25 kilometres while a high-range air defence system can hit an enemy plane at a distance of 90 kilometres, elaborated the official.

 

[vnomad]

Do you think the Brits only make combat aircraft engines? Do you forget Rolls Royce engines??? Right up there with GE & PW when it comes to the world's best and most powerful engines....SNECMA is another top-notch company...one big difference between the US, UK and French engines is their insane MTBO and MTBF numbers for the engines they produce (as an example, F-16's GE and PW engines require an engine overhaul after 4000 hours wheras the AL-31's require an overhaul every 1000 hours)..the Russians come nowhere close to it...its not simply about thrust, engine quality (which comes by way of manufacturing quality components is a whole another ballgame).

I was ofcourse alluding to jet engines for combat aircraft. I admit I did jump the gun here, but I stick to my point. Russian engines are not necessarily inferior to european engines. The T/W isn't the deciding factor admittedly but then neither are the overhaul times.

 

[Contrarian]

Wait and Watch!
Let Putin come here in Jan, then we will see what new developments take place.

Putin is comming to India as the Chief Guest of the Republic Day Parade(for the uninitiated). A huge honour, i expect some really crazy deals to be signed then!!

Last years Chief Guest was King of S.Arabia.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

You guys are bragging about the russian jet engines----do any of you know that the russian got their first quality jet engine as a gift from the british after the 2nd world war and that presumably was the Rolls Royce engine. Somebody screwed up big time in britain. Americans were not happy about it.

Mig 25 engines that some are talking about may need to be overhauled after a full throttle run. The egyptians found that out in the 73 war----maybe the russians were flying the egyptian mig 25's. Israeli phantoms launched missile at egyptian mig 25's. The israeli pilot reported that it could see the mig speeding up ahead of the missile---faster than the missile going mach 3 plus---the missile falling behind. Later reports showed that the mig engines were blown when it reached its base.

 

[Contrarian]

Since you think Russian engines are crap, i hope you refuse them immediately!!!

 

[vnomad]

The israeli pilot reported that it could see the mig speeding up ahead of the missile---faster than the missile going mach 3 plus---the missile falling behind. Later reports showed that the mig engines were blown when it reached its base.

Better than the plane getting blown.

 

[Cheetah786]

ISLAMABAD: India has failed in its efforts to block the proposed US sale of a billion-dollar arms package to Pakistan, including TOW-2A Anti-Armour Guided Missiles and E-2C Hawkeye 2000 Airborne Early Warning System.

Indian Ambassador in Washington Ronen Sen, who is spearheading the campaign clandestinely through Indian-Americans, has failed in his efforts as the new US Congress will be going for its inaugural session on Thursday next and the deadline for any formal move to halt the deal would be over within three days, ie next Sunday.

The Indian lobby has miserably failed in such an effort in July last year when the US Congress approved the multi-role high-tech fighter F-16 plans for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Diplomatic sources told The News here that the Indian lobby has so far failed in mustering support of US Congress members to bring a resolution of disapproval of the deal.

Under the rules, the proposed sales will go through Jan 7 unless the US Congress specifically disapproves them within 30 days of being notified by the Pentagon on Dec 7 last. The TOW-2A missiles, which according to the Pentagon would enable Pakistan to support US operations against terrorist activities along its borders, could reach $185 million. The E-2C HAWKEYE 2000 system for three P-3 aircraft could cost another $855 million.

A deal for $5.1 billion for F-16 planes went through last July with no more than a Congressional blow on the knuckles, Indian-Americans have mounted a campaign to inform the lawmakers under the pretext of the implication of the missile sale to Pakistan for the US national security interests.

Incited by the US-India friendship, a so-called voluntary effort of Indian-Americans, several US voters of Indian origin have sent emails to their elected representatives pointing out that such ‘a serious decision’ has been taken in a sort of legislative vacuum.

The notification was issued on Dec 7, less than two days before the outgoing 109th Congress ended its session in the early hours of Dec 9 and the 30-day notice period expires on Jan 6 just three days after the newly-elected 110th Congress takes office on Jan 3.

A known Indian intelligence gathering outfit ‘RAW’ agent Hari Iyer vowed that if it happens, it will take place without Congressional oversight into a sale of high tech and possible dual use military equipment, with serious national security implications. He has urged his area representatives to ask for a deferment of the sale so that ‘you can perform your constitutionally required duty’.

Yet another RAW contact B K Vasan expressed apprehension that even if a small percentage of these weapons falls into the hands of the Taliban, it can wreak havoc against the American and NATO forces.

Manish Thakur who is also working for RAW came out with a strange fear that selling Pakistan missiles will send the ‘worst message’ at this time. For it will not only further encourage Pakistan to tolerate attacks from its territory on US troops, but it also runs the risk of proliferation of advanced technologies to our ‘enemies’.

Another Indian activist in the US Jaya Kamlani warned these US-supplied arms could be used against India, as was done in 1965 during President Lyndon Johnson’s presidency.

The sources pointed out that the RAW activists apparently failed in the uphill task as the $5.1 billion F-16 deal for Pakistan emerged unscathed from the 30-day congressional review period last July under similar circumstances.

As the deadline for the Congress to block the deal notified by Pentagon ended then, the House of Representatives went into a month long recess without taking up resolutions by two Democratic lawmakers to block it. The issue never came up before the full Senate.

Just a week before the expiry of the deadline, the House committee on international relations upbraided the Bush administration for what it called a calculated move to diminish Congressional authority over the rushed sale of F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, but made no move to block it.

Ranking Democrat Tom Lantos, who is set to take over as chairman of the panel in the new House and his retiring Republican predecessor Henry Hyde later introduced a bill requiring quarterly updates on possible upcoming arms sales and enforcing a 20-day consultation period before the State Department formally notifies Congress of a proposed sale.

At the hearing John Hillen, Assistant Secretary of State for Political-military Affairs, admitted that the administration had chosen to waive the 20-day pre-notification period without consulting with either Hyde or Lantos, but made no move to end what Democrat Brad Sherman called “this charade” of consultations.

He affirmed that the Congress had no means to stop the deal unless both the House and Senate passed resolutions rejecting it before the 30-day review ran out and then override a Bush veto.

 

[TomCat111]

Mig 25 engines that some are talking about may need to be overhauled after a full throttle run. The egyptians found that out in the 73 war----maybe the russians were flying the egyptian mig 25's. Israeli phantoms launched missile at egyptian mig 25's. The israeli pilot reported that it could see the mig speeding up ahead of the missile---faster than the missile going mach 3 plus---the missile falling behind. Later reports showed that the mig engines were blown when it reached its base.

You are correct.

Basically Mig-25 had been a dud. It was developed to intercept American supersonic Valkyrie (XB-70). Valkyrie was cancelled and soviets got stuck with their duds. That is why they pressed the dud into service for reconnaissance. The duds never had any worthwhile stamina to fly mac 2+ that is why they were never able to get anywhere even close to the SR-71s.

 

[TomCat111]

ISLAMABAD: India has failed in its efforts to block the proposed US sale of a billion-dollar arms package to Pakistan, including TOW-2A Anti-Armour Guided Missiles and E-2C Hawkeye 2000 Airborne Early Warning System.

Indian Ambassador in Washington Ronen Sen, who is spearheading the campaign clandestinely through Indian-Americans, has failed in his efforts as the new US Congress will be going for its inaugural session on Thursday next and the deadline for any formal move to halt the deal would be over within three days, ie next Sunday.

Good one. It’s fun to watch RAW agents squirm in their cesspool...

 

[MastanKhan]

malaymishra,

What you missed from my post was that the russian jet engine was based on the Rolls Royce design. Now even though they had been gifted multiple engines, still they were not able to reverse engineer an engine of similiar quality at that time on even in the next 10 years.

Second part that people do miss is, my pakistani colleagues who claim to reverse engineer everything possible. People don't realize that it may be easier to build an atom bomb than to make a quality jet engine. Even a successful high quality automobile engine is very difficult to be designed and manufactured right from scratch. That is why you see manufacturers using engines and transmissions from different sources for their automobiles.

Now coming to JF 17, it is a modular design---which means that the plane was not built around the engine as is the case with most fighters. It can accept different engines of the same capacity from different manufacturers without drastic modifications. I am pretty sure that all of you would know that.

Vnomad, you are right about that. One who loves and runs away, will live to love another day.

 

[vnomad]

You are correct.

Basically Mig-25 had been a dud. It was developed to intercept American supersonic Valkyrie (XB-70). Valkyrie was cancelled and soviets got stuck with their duds. That is why they pressed the dud into service for reconnaissance. The duds never had any worthwhile stamina to fly mac 2+ that is why they were never able to get anywhere even close to the SR-71s.

You're incorrect the MiG-25 was never a dud. It couldn't hit a SR-71 but it was an excellent recon aircraft.

The Egyptian aircraft was bound to blow its engines. The MiG-25 had a top-speed of Mach 2.83 which couldn't have sustained. Above Mach 2.8 the engines would overheat and burn up. The Americans had clocked a Mig-25 over Israel at Mach 3.2 in 1973. Engine destruction was inevitable. The MiG-25 could do Mach 2.5 without problems. You're statement about not being able to cross Mach 2 is a figment of your imagination.

If you still believe the MiG-25 was a dud, you might want to study the events of March 1997, when Islamabad was sonic-boomed by a Foxbat.

 

[TomCat111]

You're incorrect the MiG-25 was never a dud.

Just answer this, was MiG-25 designed and built for reconnaissance? If not, then YES it’s a dud.

As far as reconnaissance goes, one can find better images at Google Earth. Conclusion, it’s a DUD.

If you still believe the MiG-25 was a dud, you might want to study the events of March 1997, when Islamabad was sonic-boomed by a Foxbat.

And your point is?

 

[Contrarian]

Just answer this, was MiG-25 designed and built for reconnaissance? If not, then YES it’s a dud.

As far as reconnaissance goes, one can find better images at Google Earth. Conclusion, it’s a DUD.

At that time when it was made, there was no google earth and PAF lacked a plane with similar capabilities, so whether it was a dud or a dude, it was still an asset in the Indo-Pak context.

And your point is?

Point is already made, i dont see how you fail to grasp it!
Or do u want me to spell everything for you now??