News Flash: JFT carries out a successful WS-13 Flight test.

[hataf]

already discussed on previous pages.
i would suggest you go through previous post for details.
however the summary on my part is that i dont see this happening.

PAC may seek enough know how to over haul and maintainance of these engines but complete production facility...not happening!!

regards!

reasons why ??????

 

[Arsalan]

reasons why ??????

reasons why ??????

brother making engines is no kid game.

it will require development of infra structure, will require development of number of supporting industiries.
we dont even make engines for automobile let alon a jet fighter engine.
look i also love Pakistan, i also want the military forces to be strong and self sufficient but this love must not make us blind to ignore ground realities.
the truth is that PAC wont be making any engines any time soon...
i hope you get my point.

regards!

 

[somebozo]

So probably this was the reason why JF17 wasnt flying at Farnborough airshow?? the didnt want Russian to take part of credit then whine with threats of suspending exports. Now its a truly Chinese bird at heart with WS13 engine..

 

[Dazzler]

This was not the reason my friend. Reason was that decision to send JFT was made in the eleventh hour leaving not enough room for flight demo preparations. Imagine a single mishap during its flight display would have seriously hampered its potential for exports ! PAF and CATIC took a precautionary approach.

 

[Arsalan]

This was not the reason my friend. Reason was that decision to send JFT was made in the eleventh hour leaving not enough room for flight demo preparations. Imagine a single mishap during its flight display would have seriously hampered its potential for exports ! PAF and CATIC took a precautionary approach.

that was indeed the right approach.
the bird have made its first appearance in global market.
now with first squadron operational and pilots getting there hands on the JFT stick, we will soon see it participating in war exercises and exhibitions around the world.

regards!

 

[Donatello]

that was indeed the right approach.
the bird have made its first appearance in global market.
now with first squadron operational and pilots getting there hands on the JFT stick, we will soon see it participating in war exercises and exhibitions around the world.

regards!

JF-17 is surely going to upset the Russians. Because they were offering good technology (Not the best though) at cheaper rates.

With JF-17 already offering features of the Gripen and offering tones of upgrades due to the flexible nature of it's components, i guess it will see service in airforces other than that of China and Pakistan

 

[hataf]

brother making engines is no kid game.

it will require development of infra structure, will require development of number of supporting industiries.
we dont even make engines for automobile let alon a jet fighter engine.
look i also love Pakistan, i also want the military forces to be strong and self sufficient but this love must not make us blind to ignore ground realities.
the truth is that PAC wont be making any engines any time soon...
i hope you get my point.

regards!

man We even do not make needle but we produced atomic bomb

i am not saying that we should made in days or hours

but steps must be taken in that regard slowly but steadily .. . . . ..

 

[Donatello]

man We even do not make needle but we produced atomic bomb

i am not saying that we should made in days or hours

but steps must be taken in that regard slowly but steadily .. . . . ..

Why would you want to make needles when you can find them cheaply else where?

We will make our products when there is need for them. Just like in order to keep our PAF up to the task, we made our own JF-17.

Engines for aircraft we don't need to make them just so we can show off. It is expensive to put that kind of infrastructure in place for such a small demand.


Countries like USA make engines because they have huge demand for them from Boeing and Airbus to Military jets flying in their skies.
and they have private firms for it.

Lastly,PAC can manufacture them but i don't think designing them would be economically viable. Lastly such industries are better off if they are private as we cannot strain the public money which funds PAC, HIT, AWC etc...etc..

 

[Sinnerman108]

Why would you want to make needles when you can find them cheaply else where?

We will make our products when there is need for them. Just like in order to keep our PAF up to the task, we made our own JF-17.

Engines for aircraft we don't need to make them just so we can show off. It is expensive to put that kind of infrastructure in place for such a small demand.


Countries like USA make engines because they have huge demand for them from Boeing and Airbus to Military jets flying in their skies.
and they have private firms for it.

Lastly,PAC can manufacture them but i don't think designing them would be economically viable. Lastly such industries are better off if they are private as we cannot strain the public money which funds PAC, HIT, AWC etc...etc..

that was a bit short sighted....

Pakistan should at least participate in some form of partnership if not get an assembly line for the engines for the following reason:

1. To make more money / air craft sold
2. To get a jump start and further interests in engine technology
3. To acquire and build expertise in the underlying technology

Remember the wind tunnel / simulation and testing technologies are the same and can be used for air crafts, weapons, and a host of other things also.

It's like you learn to use the calculator, not just for your physics paper but also for the chemistry paper.

 

[Arsalan]

man We even do not make needle but we produced atomic bomb

who says we dont even make a needle???
apart from that indina bolloywood actor!!

Pakistan and Germany are the only two major suppliers of surgical instruments in the world. Korea, France, Hungary, Poland and England are also in the field but their exports are negligible. In terms of cheap labour, 100-year old localised skills, suitable monetary and fiscal incentives, and world-wide reputation, Pakistan has all those textbook advantages which are associated with localisation of industries.

i am not saying that we should made in days or hours

but steps must be taken in that regard slowly but steadily .. . . . .

well o n a serious note,
i dont say that we cannot make the negines but only wanted to clear that Pakistan is not moving in direction of doing so. this need huge amount of industrialization in relavant feilds and there are no signs that PAC of Gov Pakistan in supporting or are busy in any such activities.
Thus, JFT may not see a locally produced engine....

i hope i have made my point clear.

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

that was a bit short sighted....

Pakistan should at least participate in some form of partnership if not get an assembly line for the engines for the following reason:

1. To make more money / air craft sold
2. To get a jump start and further interests in engine technology
3. To acquire and build expertise in the underlying technology

Remember the wind tunnel / simulation and testing technologies are the same and can be used for air crafts, weapons, and a host of other things also.

It's like you learn to use the calculator, not just for your physics paper but also for the chemistry paper.

i guess what penumbra said was right.
investing huge amount of $$$ to make engines for just the JFT.
the engine making industries have a vast list of customer aircrafts and thus they can afford this...

however the wind tunnel facility is different and it will be wise to invest on this as it will help in lot of way!
we kake cruise missiles and now aircrafts, the future blocks may see some structurla changes and all this will be benefitted by an in house wind tunnel facility.

regards!

 

[Sinnerman108]

i guess what penumbra said was right.
investing huge amount of $$$ to make engines for just the JFT.
the engine making industries have a vast list of customer aircrafts and thus they can afford this...

I stand by my argument, and will support indigenous effort over every thing all the time.

Just understand it will NOT be a HUGE AMOUNT of $$$$ !

We are not going to go DEVELOP an engine, all what we are looking
for are manufacturing capability with an understanding of the underlying technology.

Please understand these are two different terms;

DEVELOPING engines is a chapter in engineering and required a lot of investment.

MAKING engines is a chapter in industrial production and requires instrumentation setup.

 

[graphican]

who says we dont even make a needle???
apart from that indina bolloywood actor!!

Pakistan and Germany are the only two major suppliers of surgical instruments in the world. Korea, France, Hungary, Poland and England are also in the field but their exports are negligible. In terms of cheap labour, 100-year old localised skills, suitable monetary and fiscal incentives, and world-wide reputation, Pakistan has all those textbook advantages which are associated with localisation of industries.




well o n a serious note,
i dont say that we cannot make the negines but only wanted to clear that Pakistan is not moving in direction of doing so. this need huge amount of industrialization in relavant feilds and there are no signs that PAC of Gov Pakistan in supporting or are busy in any such activities.
Thus, JFT may not see a locally produced engine....

i hope i have made my point clear.

regards!

Okay whoever needs surgical instruments, can contact me. I deal in them and manufacture surgical, dental instruments and veterinary/dog/cats surgical instruments.

I cannot say if we really make je engins but we make needles for sure :p Hehe..

 

[Donatello]

I stand by my argument, and will support indigenous effort over every thing all the time.

Just understand it will NOT be a HUGE AMOUNT of $$$$ !

We are not going to go DEVELOP an engine, all what we are looking
for are manufacturing capability with an understanding of the underlying technology.

Please understand these are two different terms;

DEVELOPING engines is a chapter in engineering and required a lot of investment.

MAKING engines is a chapter in industrial production and requires instrumentation setup.

DO you have any idea of the industries you need to set up for Turbine engine manufacture?

And that too like the high performance after burner ones?


You need entire metals/materials research industry which we lack and we can't import alloys as that will totally go against the concept of home made. Then we need a market for them. The problem is that in our countries both India and Pakistan such industries are all government owned that is taxpayer funded.

In USA and Europe they are private like Pratt and Whitney, Rolls-Royce, GE...etc etc.

I mean, just look at the debt we have been carrying because of PIA and Steel Mills. We have a socialistic economy which doesn't allow much for scientific research to happen.

The only high tech labs like KRL, SUPARCO, AWC, PAC, HIT are all not private.

Once we make engines, what will we do with them? After using them up for JF-17s and J-10s maybe, where will the rest go? The economics just doesn't make sense.


This is not USAF which purchases 3000+ f-16s.......or Soviet Union which by forced labor was making thousands of planes per year at its peak.

 

[Sinnerman108]

DO you have any idea of the industries you need to set up for Turbine engine manufacture?

And that too like the high performance after burner ones?


You need entire metals/materials research industry which we lack and we can't import alloys as that will totally go against the concept of home made. Then we need a market for them. The problem is that in our countries both India and Pakistan such industries are all government owned that is taxpayer funded.

In USA and Europe they are private like Pratt and Whitney, Rolls-Royce, GE...etc etc.

I mean, just look at the debt we have been carrying because of PIA and Steel Mills. We have a socialistic economy which doesn't allow much for scientific research to happen.

The only high tech labs like KRL, SUPARCO, AWC, PAC, HIT are all not private.

Once we make engines, what will we do with them? After using them up for JF-17s and J-10s maybe, where will the rest go? The economics just doesn't make sense.


This is not USAF which purchases 3000+ f-16s.......or Soviet Union which by forced labor was making thousands of planes per year at its peak.

I do this for a living !

do you want to debate ?